Dan Abnett novels update

[Aegnor]

Sigh. Let me cut out the next few pages of tedious internet argument. It was glib of me to describe those who disliked PB as only being interested in bolter porn. In a similar way, it was dismissive of you to imply that people only disagree with criticism of PB out of fan-boyism. Obviously everyone is entitled to their own opinions about the merits of different pieces of writing. I think there are some valid criticisms to be made of PB in terms of pacing and the effectiveness of the repeated dream sequence technique. I don't think many of the criticisms that had been aired in this thread, or in the frequent critical references to it in unrelated threads have much merit - in my opinion. Beyond this, I really don't want to continue a discussion that will be tedious to everyone else and probably annoying to both of us, given how it's started out (and I put my hand up for having contributed to that), so I'll leave it there.

[Candleshoes]

The quality of writing and storytelling in Legion and Prospero Burns are incredible and move far past the chains of Tie-In-Fiction. That being said, not everybody understood what they really read in Pb and Legion (multiple reads and you still are finding things), as they are both told in a different way than the majority of the HH series. Too many judge the novels with no context and short quips, but that is their right and opinion. Nothing takes away from the fact the quality of writing is nothing short of amazing, and well deserving of a New York Times Bestseller. They are just a different breed of books in the series, and have their place, just like the more action oriented.

 

With all of the likely conflicts that will begin and end at Calth, I am sure we won't have any problem sinking our teeth into Know No Fear. Can't wait.

[calgar101]

I actually enjoyed Pb, it added a new depth to the HH series and to the Wolves themselves. Abnett made no bones about the fact how he planned to move them away from the stereotypical 'Vikings in Space' image. Combat scenes are great and all if they contribute to the story and written well, PB allowed use to see in-depth to the psyche of the Space Wolf legion, see how they view things and how they are viewed. Also we saw a different side to the conflict and found out just how deep rooted Chaos/Primordial Annihilator has its claws in things.

[Nikt208]

Both Legion and Prospero Burns were, in my opinion, great books, the former being my favourite HH release. Dan Abnett is a very talented writer who has always been good at creating memorable characters, who the audience can not necessarily relate to, but definitely empathise with. Whilst his focus has primarily been on the 'humans', he does have the ability to write a great astartes novel. Just look at Horus Rising, a book that many consider to the finest in the HH series. We are still discussing the fate of those astartes characters, more so than any from the other books. With PB, Dan didnt need to retell the sacking of Prospero, Graham Mcneill did a terrific job of that in A Thousand Sons.

 

With Calth, from what I know, Dan will pull out the stops and give us a great 'action' book. I just hope he doesn't succumb to fan pressure and deliver a Heresy era Space Marine Battles book, as his ability to successfully interweave the human characters has always made him stand out.

[obs0l3te]

Both well written? yes! Legion was ok for what it was, It fit with AL mentality lots of mystery, and twists and turns, classic AL. We also saw some into the mind of their Primarch. PB? Leman Russ said it himself, they don't hide things, but they sure had a lot of secrets. It was written well but it didn't have what it needed to really succeed.

 

s for "bolter porn" guess what? It's a marine war story series about front line warriors not Joe Blow the laundry man. Yes he may have been there in the war and seen a lot of marine backside while cleaning socks, but that's not what I want to read. I want Leman Russ and Prospero on fire. You can write a great novel with marines it has been done in all of the other books and many times before. Abnett has even said that he doesn't know how to write marines, that's crap! He has written many good marine books before. I'll give him legion because it makes sense but PB was a huge let down.

 

The marines in the HH aren't brain washed like in 40k there shouldn't have been any issues with persona in that book! And it didn't even go hand in hand with tsons, we didn't even see any one from this book in PB.

Huge let down from what we were told this book was supposed to be.

 

Both well written? yes! Legion was ok for what it was, It fit with AL mentality lots of mystery, and twists and turns, classic AL. We also saw some into the mind of their Primarch. PB? Leman Russ said it himself, they don't hide things, but they sure had a lot of secrets. It was written well but it didn't have what it needed to really succeed.

 

s for "bolter porn" guess what? It's a marine war story series about front line warriors not Joe Blow the laundry man. Yes he may have been there in the war and seen a lot of marine backside while cleaning socks, but that's not what I want to read. I want Leman Russ and Prospero on fire. You can write a great novel with marines it has been done in all of the other books and many times before. Abnett has even said that he doesn't know how to write marines, that's crap! He has written many good marine books before. I'll give him legion because it makes sense but PB was a huge let down.

 

The marines in the HH aren't brain washed like in 40k there shouldn't have been any issues with persona in that book! And it didn't even go hand in hand with tsons, we didn't even see any one from this book in PB.

Huge let down from what we were told this book was supposed to be.

[Nikt208]

Both well written? yes! Legion was ok for what it was, It fit with AL mentality lots of mystery, and twists and turns, classic AL. We also saw some into the mind of their Primarch. PB? Leman Russ said it himself, they don't hide things, but they sure had a lot of secrets. It was written well but it didn't have what it needed to really succeed.

 

s for "bolter porn" guess what? It's a marine war story series about front line warriors not Joe Blow the laundry man. Yes he may have been there in the war and seen a lot of marine backside while cleaning socks, but that's not what I want to read. I want Leman Russ and Prospero on fire. You can write a great novel with marines it has been done in all of the other books and many times before. Abnett has even said that he doesn't know how to write marines, that's crap! He has written many good marine books before. I'll give him legion because it makes sense but PB was a huge let down.

 

The marines in the HH aren't brain washed like in 40k there shouldn't have been any issues with persona in that book! And it didn't even go hand in hand with tsons, we didn't even see any one from this book in PB.

Huge let down from what we were told this book was supposed to be.

 

You say that PB didn't have what it needed to succeed. Is this success in commercial or critical terms? Considering it was on the NYT bestsellers list I can only assume you mean critical success. As far as reviews go I have read a good spread which range from 2 or 3 stars,to 5 out of 5. As such, critical success is entirely dependent on the individual, so whilst you do not consider it a success there are many others out there who do (myself being among them).

 

To answer your second point, I believe the Heresy is much much more than just a marine war series. Whilst it may have started off this, it has since developed into something much bigger. You are correct in saying the marine story is the focus, but it really was the match on the tinder box. To not explore all the other angles such as civilians, assassins, politics, sub-factions, and even alien races at this tumultuous time would be a wasted opportunity. We have seen things from the marines' perspective in most of the books so far, but seeing a legion as misunderstood as the Space Wolves from the outside was in my mind necessary. With A Thousand Sons we saw the action side, we saw Leman Russ and Magnus fight, and we saw the planet burning. What would be the point of Dan Abnett rewriting it, except to show things from the SW's point of view (which we did see a little of). Instead we got to see the truth about who was really pulling the strings behind the scene. In my mind this is more important than just more action, which to be honest we knew about before either of the books were released.

 

As far as Know No Fear goes I believe Dan realises that this is the time for the Ultramarines to shine, and he is planning on showing a new side to them, much as he did with the Wolves. I for one can't wait to see how he portrays a legion that is often seen as plain and boring. That being said I would also like to see a little of what Dan does best i.e. the 'humans'. Calth is burning, as is much of Ultramar, I would like to see a little of the civilian's point of view (as a side story of course).

[tiberium40k]

Instead we got to see the truth about who was really pulling the strings behind the scene.

 

Did we really need to be told Chaos was pulling the strings? I figured as much after reading the IA articles for the first time. Its like someone telling you Angron is based on Spartacus...

[Nikt208]

Instead we got to see the truth about who was really pulling the strings behind the scene.

 

Did we really need to be told Chaos was pulling the strings? I figured as much after reading the IA articles for the first time. Its like someone telling you Angron is based on Spartacus...

 

Well, from what I know up until now we thought it was Horus who ordered the brutal attack, but Dan shows a different scenario, and a completely different approach to what we have seen in the past. I do understand what your saying, though in that respect the only part of the Heresy which we don't know anything about is the Age of Darkness.

 

At a macro level we already know most of the threads, it's the detailed unfolding/development of the events that we really want to read about. Both A Thousand Sons and Prospero Burns do that. Where ATS shows the combat/action side of the event, Prospero Burns shows how we got there (in more detail than we have seen in the past). Of course both stories serve other purposes as well (understanding the legions, and the development of the heresy), but with regards to the actual event they need to be read together to see the full picture. In hindsight maybe the title Prospero Burns wasn't the best choice, but then again, it's an attention grabber!!

[Ingo Pech]

You say that PB didn't have what it needed to succeed. Is this success in commercial or critical terms? Considering it was on the NYT bestsellers list I can only assume you mean critical success. As far as reviews go I have read a good spread which range from 2 or 3 stars,to 5 out of 5. As such, critical success is entirely dependent on the individual, so whilst you do not consider it a success there are many others out there who do (myself being among them).

 

To answer your second point, I believe the Heresy is much much more than just a marine war series. Whilst it may have started off this, it has since developed into something much bigger. You are correct in saying the marine story is the focus, but it really was the match on the tinder box. To not explore all the other angles such as civilians, assassins, politics, sub-factions, and even alien races at this tumultuous time would be a wasted opportunity. We have seen things from the marines' perspective in most of the books so far, but seeing a legion as misunderstood as the Space Wolves from the outside was in my mind necessary. With A Thousand Sons we saw the action side, we saw Leman Russ and Magnus fight, and we saw the planet burning. What would be the point of Dan Abnett rewriting it, except to show things from the SW's point of view (which we did see a little of). Instead we got to see the truth about who was really pulling the strings behind the scene. In my mind this is more important than just more action, which to be honest we knew about before either of the books were released.

 

As far as Know No Fear goes I believe Dan realises that this is the time for the Ultramarines to shine, and he is planning on showing a new side to them, much as he did with the Wolves. I for one can't wait to see how he portrays a legion that is often seen as plain and boring. That being said I would also like to see a little of what Dan does best i.e. the 'humans'. Calth is burning, as is much of Ultramar, I would like to see a little of the civilian's point of view (as a side story of course).

 

I totally agree with you. I think, Prospero Burns is a fairly good book and It was gread to read about the Pack from a different angle... Especially to show the hidden charakter behind the barbarians, they are taken for. And to learn that the relationship between the Wolfking and Magnus was not emotionally charged with hatred and contempt but with reserved brotherhood and perhaps clandestine love for each other was great - because now both of them appear much more mature than before...

 

But: in my opinion, Dan Abnett has wasted the chance to explore more of the events on Nikaea and about Wyrdmake... I really was disappointed about the omission of Othere Wyrdmake, because he was one of the central "antagonists" in "A Thousand Sons"... So, Prospero Burns was a good book, entertaining to read and an eye-opener - but it could have been much more.

 

And it´s not as great as "Legion", one of my favourite-books in the whole Horus Heresy-series, alongside " A Thousand Sons", "Flight Of The Eisenstein" and the biggest part of "First Heretic".

[2000AD]

Legion is an awesome book....... very apt in the more you read it the better it gets!..... How very Alpha Legion!

 

 

Prospero Burns was weird IMO....... not a patch on ATS...... just didnt feel it added anything of note.