knife&fork Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 Let's just start with saying that what's good or bad can be very subjective and that some things suggested here are actually just suboptimal rather than plain bad. It's not about going totally overboard with upgrades (30*TH DC) or gimping yourself by not taking any AT whatsoever. It's about taking the under used and suboptimal. Lately I've thought about making the "worst" possible list. There's a few reasons for this, I want to use some models that don't see much play, I want to deal with new situations and tactics. You never know, some things that seems bad at first sight might turn out to be quite useful. So what do have in our codex that is less or not so good? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/227307-the-worst-ba-fore-possible/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain Angel Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 I have seen many people say that a dc squad with jump packs are to exspensive, but i disagree. If used and armed properly, they can be unstoppable. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/227307-the-worst-ba-fore-possible/#findComment-2722739 Share on other sites More sharing options...
d503 Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 5 sanguinary guard with powerfists, and an attached techmarine. Just in case. Librarians with blood boil. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/227307-the-worst-ba-fore-possible/#findComment-2722749 Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain Angel Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 As techmarines are not independent characters (in the blood angels book anyways) they could not do that Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/227307-the-worst-ba-fore-possible/#findComment-2722758 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybnick Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 Not sure what point level is intended but we play 1850 locally so that's what I wrote up. Captain with a pair of Lightning Claws, on a bike Techmarine with a servo harness Sanguinary Priest on a bike w/ a Lightning Claw Sanguinary Priest with a Combi-Plasma Furioso Librarian Dreadnought 5x Death Company w/ a PW, PF, TH, Jump Packs and Lemartes Tactical Squad w/ Plasma Gun, Plasma Cannon, PF in a Razorback w/ Lascannon and TL Plasma Gun and EA Bike Squad w/ 9 bikes, 2 melta guns, and attack bike with multi melta Storm Raven w/ EA, TL MulitMelta, Plasma Cannon, and Hurricane Bolters Not exaclty a horrible list, but it consists of things most BA players don't take that often. DC w/ Lemartes and Dread go in the SR, tacticals combat squad and the heavy weapon portion goes into a reinforced piece of terrain with the priest and techmarine, the razorback half goes where it's needed. Bikes go together and do whatever is needed. This is actually a prety fun idea, I might just try a "bad" list like this out someday. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/227307-the-worst-ba-fore-possible/#findComment-2722814 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Gunzhard Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 Let's just start with saying that what's good or bad can be very subjective and that some things suggested here are actually just suboptimal rather than plain bad. It's not about going totally overboard with upgrades (30*TH DC) or gimping yourself by not taking any AT whatsoever. It's about taking the under used and suboptimal. Lately I've thought about making the "worst" possible list. There's a few reasons for this, I want to use some models that don't see much play, I want to deal with new situations and tactics. You never know, some things that seems bad at first sight might turn out to be quite useful. So what do have in our codex that is less or not so good? Sounds like my kinda game! :lol: I never intentionally shoot for the 'worst' possible list, but I often don't concern myself with what is generally accepted to be 'good'... and instead take just the units that I like, or that I have painted well - and see how I fair with them. Worst case, I always have fun. ;) ...and more often I learn something new playing with totally 'unexpected' units. Scouts and bikes?! ..hmmmmm. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/227307-the-worst-ba-fore-possible/#findComment-2722858 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeller Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 Captain: PF, Combi-melta, MB Librarian: Blood Boil, Blood Lance Techmarine: Servo Harness, JP Techmarine: Servo Harness, JP Techmarine: Servo Harness, JP 10 Scouts: PF, Combi-melta, ML, Bolters 10 Scouts: PF, Combi-melta, ML, Bolters 10 Scouts: PF, Combi-melta, ML, Bolters 10 Scouts: PF, Combi-melta, ML, Bolters 10 Scouts: PF, Combi-melta, ML, Bolters 10 Scouts: PF, Combi-melta, ML, Bolters 10 Scout Bikes: 3 AGL, PF, Teleport Homer 10 Scout Bikes: 3 AGL, PF, Teleport Homer 10 Scout Bikes: 3 AGL, PF, Teleport Homer Whirlwind Whirlwind Whirlwind Oddly enough the thought of having that many scouts is somewhat enticing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/227307-the-worst-ba-fore-possible/#findComment-2722917 Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain Angel Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 the bikes would have homing becoan, not teleport homer, there is a big difference. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/227307-the-worst-ba-fore-possible/#findComment-2722929 Share on other sites More sharing options...
1Drop Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 Not sure what point level is intended but we play 1850 locally so that's what I wrote up. Captain with a pair of Lightning Claws, on a bike Techmarine with a servo harness Sanguinary Priest on a bike w/ a Lightning Claw Sanguinary Priest with a Combi-Plasma Furioso Librarian Dreadnought 5x Death Company w/ a PW, PF, TH, Jump Packs and Lemartes Tactical Squad w/ Plasma Gun, Plasma Cannon, PF in a Razorback w/ Lascannon and TL Plasma Gun and EA Bike Squad w/ 9 bikes, 2 melta guns, and attack bike with multi melta Storm Raven w/ EA, TL MulitMelta, Plasma Cannon, and Hurricane Bolters Not exaclty a horrible list, but it consists of things most BA players don't take that often. DC w/ Lemartes and Dread go in the SR, tacticals combat squad and the heavy weapon portion goes into a reinforced piece of terrain with the priest and techmarine, the razorback half goes where it's needed. Bikes go together and do whatever is needed. This is actually a prety fun idea, I might just try a "bad" list like this out someday. 'captin with pair of LC on a bike' hahahaha that's amazing, how the hell would he ride the thing, fully gimped! And I run ten DC with lemartes in a SR with a DC Dread too, love it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/227307-the-worst-ba-fore-possible/#findComment-2722933 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taz Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 Not sure what point level is intended but we play 1850 locally so that's what I wrote up. Captain with a pair of Lightning Claws, on a bike Techmarine with a servo harness Sanguinary Priest on a bike w/ a Lightning Claw Sanguinary Priest with a Combi-Plasma Furioso Librarian Dreadnought 5x Death Company w/ a PW, PF, TH, Jump Packs and Lemartes Tactical Squad w/ Plasma Gun, Plasma Cannon, PF in a Razorback w/ Lascannon and TL Plasma Gun and EA Bike Squad w/ 9 bikes, 2 melta guns, and attack bike with multi melta Storm Raven w/ EA, TL MulitMelta, Plasma Cannon, and Hurricane Bolters Not exaclty a horrible list, but it consists of things most BA players don't take that often. DC w/ Lemartes and Dread go in the SR, tacticals combat squad and the heavy weapon portion goes into a reinforced piece of terrain with the priest and techmarine, the razorback half goes where it's needed. Bikes go together and do whatever is needed. This is actually a prety fun idea, I might just try a "bad" list like this out someday. 'captin with pair of LC on a bike' hahahaha that's amazing, how the hell would he ride the thing, fully gimped! And I run ten DC with lemartes in a SR with a DC Dread too, love it. The same way any real man steers a motorcycle- with his feet! ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/227307-the-worst-ba-fore-possible/#findComment-2723067 Share on other sites More sharing options...
d503 Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 Wrong. Real men get their butler to drive the bike for them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/227307-the-worst-ba-fore-possible/#findComment-2723501 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larkyn Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 What about Death Company Tycho? He's a real winnar in this style of army. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/227307-the-worst-ba-fore-possible/#findComment-2723511 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leksington Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 Worst possible? 1 Captain 2 Tac squads The rest? Empty Drop Pods. Edit this would be pretty funny. You'd be fielding 34 drop pods in a 1500 point list. You might sucessfully be able to contest every single objective and play for a draw. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/227307-the-worst-ba-fore-possible/#findComment-2723558 Share on other sites More sharing options...
angel of justice Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 Worst possible? 1 Captain 2 Tac squads The rest? Empty Drop Pods. Edit this would be pretty funny. You'd be fielding 34 drop pods in a 1500 point list. You might sucessfully be able to contest every single objective and play for a draw. drop pods are dedicated transports so you could take 2 but have tycho honor guard with plasma guns 2 techmarines with full servo harness and retinue of servitors 1 ten man sternguard unit all with combi plasma 3 whirlwinds fill the rest with tactical squads with power fists plasma gun and cannon. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/227307-the-worst-ba-fore-possible/#findComment-2723563 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Memories Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 Reclusiarch with combi-flamer 8 scouts w/ bp/ccw, camo cloaks (gotta have those cover saves from close range), sergeant w/ shotgun 24 Death company, all jump packs, bolters 22 thunder hammers 1 inferus pistol power fist 1 power fist Total: 1499 Put the reclusiarch with the death company so they can only move 6 inches per turn instead of the normal 12 with jump packs. But hey, you could probably pull off one hell of a multiple assault with a 25 man squad. Too bad they'd mostly be wiped out first due to everyone but the chaplain being I1. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/227307-the-worst-ba-fore-possible/#findComment-2723574 Share on other sites More sharing options...
shan vener Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 Worst possible? 1 Captain 2 Tac squads The rest? Empty Drop Pods. Edit this would be pretty funny. You'd be fielding 34 drop pods in a 1500 point list. You might sucessfully be able to contest every single objective and play for a draw. drop pods are dedicated transports so you could take 2 but have tycho honor guard with plasma guns 2 techmarines with full servo harness and retinue of servitors 1 ten man sternguard unit all with combi plasma 3 whirlwinds fill the rest with tactical squads with power fists plasma gun and cannon. if you read the GW FAQ then you'll know that they say you can buy empty pods Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/227307-the-worst-ba-fore-possible/#findComment-2724497 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spagunk Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 if you read the GW FAQ then you'll know that they say you can buy empty pods But pods are dedicated transports. I.E. you have to buy them for a squad. The FAQ just clarifies that those pods you did purchase can be empty. In your example, you give 1 hq and 2 troop choices. This means you can only ever have 2 drop pods. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/227307-the-worst-ba-fore-possible/#findComment-2724504 Share on other sites More sharing options...
30-Death-Company+Astorath Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 Try 9 DC (3 pw, 3 pf, 3 Chainsword and bolt pistol and 2 infernus pistols plus jump packs) and give em lemmy, took out 10 chaos termies and a chaos lord in one round of combat :rolleyes: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/227307-the-worst-ba-fore-possible/#findComment-2724511 Share on other sites More sharing options...
knife&fork Posted April 14, 2011 Author Share Posted April 14, 2011 A lot of interesting ideas and suggestions so far. Glad to see that there are more who like occasionally not worry so much about optimization. Going against your instinct can yield some interesting results. Thought I'd take some sample units from the codex to show what I've been thinking about. To pick an HQ is pretty simple, we'll go with the captain since he's not very good. I've used the TDA upgrade with TH&SS before, HUGE points sink, but every time he's blessed with incredible luck to the point where it feels like cheating. The last game I used him in he took down half a nob squad and a warboss then charged three turbo-boosting deffkoptas and took them all out in one swing. B) All those sixes, man I've must have used up a years worth during that game. In the veterans mk II box there's a fancy looking fellow with power axe and plasma pistol that I've never used in game, let's pick him. It's not a horrible setup but not exactly a good use of 130 points either. (RAW this load out is illegal since the captains entry only allows for a power sword!) In the elites section almost everything is good... except the techmarine. I don't have the servo harness version but power weapon and jump pack lets me field the old honor guard tech adept. I'll also take Corbulo, not bad but personally I've never picked him over a regular sanguinary priest since the PDF codex went out of style. For troops I think assault squads is the way to go for blood angels. So tacticals and scouts it is. Tactical squads first. Since I dislike taking taking plasma on one wound models we'll put a plasma gun in there. Sergeant gets melta bombs and a combi plasma because I converted some up (who doesn't have a ton of bolters and plasma pistols?) and I think they look cool. Of all the heavy weapon upgrades they can take the heavy bolter is probably the least useful and flexible, on the other hand it looks badass. Rhino gets two stormbolters, dozer blade and a HK missile. Rule of cool applies. Scouts get nice mix of weapons with no regard to actual performance or composition. I just want a ragtag bunch that you can imagined have done all sorts of recon and sabotage leading up to the battle. Sergeant with plasma pistol and power weapon, two shotgunners, one bolter, one bp&ccw, one sniper rifle and a heavy bolter. Camo cloaks for all! This unit will give you pangs of migraine during the shooting phase. I'd also like to include a classic land raider sometimes. All you see now is crusaders and redeemers. All the choices in fast attack are solid, the only thing that is really overpriced is the AC speeder. Avitus rules, heavy bolters rules. My pick in heavy support is a devastator squad with 4*HB, sergeant will have to settle for a storm bolter. :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/227307-the-worst-ba-fore-possible/#findComment-2724778 Share on other sites More sharing options...
1Drop Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 This is some of the funniest :cuss I've read in ages, hahahah, amazing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/227307-the-worst-ba-fore-possible/#findComment-2724791 Share on other sites More sharing options...
d503 Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 I now prefer regular land raiders to the assault variant now. I am considering using a librarian with a basic command squad inside. Librarian, command squad with champion, apothecary, 2 more power weapons. It would live inside a land raider with 2 lascannons and a multimelta, and act as a countercharge squad. I prefer it over the assault variants not because there are literally no other special weapons fielded than meltaguns at my venue. It's a very imperial heavy venue, and often with 3 or 4 meltaguns per squad (SM command squads, guard vets, deamonhunter retinue spam) there isn't a long life expectancy for a land raider that has to get within flamer template range. Therefore, no-one ever takes raiders, so therefore no-one ever takes high strength long range AT. So I think a regular raider with a very choppy CC command squad is a good idea I think. Not tournament winning, but decent in a regular game. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/227307-the-worst-ba-fore-possible/#findComment-2724852 Share on other sites More sharing options...
knife&fork Posted April 15, 2011 Author Share Posted April 15, 2011 I now prefer regular land raiders to the assault variant now. I am considering using a librarian with a basic command squad inside. Librarian, command squad with champion, apothecary, 2 more power weapons. It would live inside a land raider with 2 lascannons and a multimelta, and act as a countercharge squad. I prefer it over the assault variants not because there are literally no other special weapons fielded than meltaguns at my venue. It's a very imperial heavy venue, and often with 3 or 4 meltaguns per squad (SM command squads, guard vets, deamonhunter retinue spam) there isn't a long life expectancy for a land raider that has to get within flamer template range. Therefore, no-one ever takes raiders, so therefore no-one ever takes high strength long range AT. So I think a regular raider with a very choppy CC command squad is a good idea I think. Not tournament winning, but decent in a regular game. That's an awful lot of points. Wouldn't it make more sense to just have 2 AC+LC predators hanging around in your deployment zone instead? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/227307-the-worst-ba-fore-possible/#findComment-2724882 Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain Angel Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 As blood angels our land raiders are dedicated transports, so you would need tac squads for that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/227307-the-worst-ba-fore-possible/#findComment-2724914 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.