robot530 Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 Leksington: Agreed. To line up the rules concern to the fluff, a priest and chaplain would always accompany the squad. Rules wise to boost the stats to DC levels. Fluff wise because of the mystical beliefs of the chapter and the urgency of the action. It would be tradition that this is how the TDA DC is fielded. Because the armor is sacred it would be well looked after by the "rational" elites and the squad would be directed towards its intended goal. Rulewise rage is no longer an issue, harkening back to the old days. This could be summed up to the annointing rituals and how TDA operates differently on the battlefield than PA. Without the guiding cries of a priest or chaplain the power buff associated with the DC would diminish but control would remain because of the extra rituals performed before battle. Yes it is pure madness, in times most grim. The tabletop is only an experimental reflection of these concepts. Just paint them Black. Heh... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallboy Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 If they don't die in battle they are executed. Hence the reason for Asteroth. With my Flesh Tearers not being the most populated chapter of the marines I think I'll pass on killing someone who at the end of the day is a tad grumpy.... I for one am loving the idea of assault termies painted as DC, hmmm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt. Blood Donator Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 Regardless they don't wear TDA, otherwise it'd be available to them in their codex entry. Period. It would make no sense to waste terminator armor on a madman. EDIT: Not my chapter. I've actually always hated the BA. From way back. Simply put: DC Tycho wears Artificer armor, despite the fact that artificer armor isn't available to DC in their codex entry. It is also worth noting that DC marines are allowed to pilot Dreadnaughts. I think we can all agree that it is not the norm for DC to wear anything but power armor, but since there are examples of DC marines piloting Dreadnaughts and in Artificer armor, there probably have been exceptional marines that were allowed to continue to wear their Terminator armor once they succumbed to the black rage. Pilot a dread? Taken any fluff lessons recently? The codex is pretty adamant in that the pilots fall to the black rage after being entombed in a dread, not before. Not even the Blood Angels are stupid enought to put someone who has fallen to the Black Rage into a dread afterwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonaides Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 too much fanboi in this thread, not much point trying a rational discussion... Termie dc wouldn't happen. Period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Fisting Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 Regardless they don't wear TDA, otherwise it'd be available to them in their codex entry. Period. It would make no sense to waste terminator armor on a madman. EDIT: Not my chapter. I've actually always hated the BA. From way back. Simply put: DC Tycho wears Artificer armor, despite the fact that artificer armor isn't available to DC in their codex entry. It is also worth noting that DC marines are allowed to pilot Dreadnaughts. I think we can all agree that it is not the norm for DC to wear anything but power armor, but since there are examples of DC marines piloting Dreadnaughts and in Artificer armor, there probably have been exceptional marines that were allowed to continue to wear their Terminator armor once they succumbed to the black rage. Tycho was a captain and was thus probably afforded the respect to keep the armor he already had, just painted black. As for the dreadnought thing. DC dreads are those that fell to the black rage AFTER being interred in the dreadnought. They don't wait until a Marine falls to the black rage and then stuff him into a dread, are you serious? -_- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leksington Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 Pilot a dread? Taken any fluff lessons recently? The codex is pretty adamant in that the pilots fall to the black rage after being entombed in a dread, not before.Not even the Blood Angels are stupid enought to put someone who has fallen to the Black Rage into a dread afterwards. Have you considered the fluff on page 29 of the BA codex where it says that techmarines disable DC dreadnoughts that survive battle, and then a SP has the option of sedating the pilot until the next battle (instead of killing them)? If it wasn't clear before, that Priest is allowing a marine suffering from the black rage to continue piloting a dreadnaught. -_- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Fisting Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 Pilot a dread? Taken any fluff lessons recently? The codex is pretty adamant in that the pilots fall to the black rage after being entombed in a dread, not before.Not even the Blood Angels are stupid enought to put someone who has fallen to the Black Rage into a dread afterwards. Have you considered the fluff on page 29 of the BA codex where it says that techmarines disable DC dreadnoughts that survive battle, and then a SP has the option of sedating the pilot until the next battle (instead of killing them)? If it wasn't clear before, that Priest is allowing a marine suffering from the black rage to continue piloting a dreadnaught. -_- *sigh* That wasn't the point. The point was they don't take a Marine that is already afflicted and entomb him. Allowing a DC dread to live in a sedated state makes sense, allowing Joe Schmoe Marine who just turned to wear one of your super-rare suits of TDA DOES NOT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leksington Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 *sigh* That wasn't the point. The point was they don't take a Marine that is already afflicted and entomb him. Allowing a DC dread to live in a sedated state makes sense, allowing Joe Schmoe Marine who just turned to wear one of your super-rare suits of TDA DOES NOT. *sigh indeed* Why wouldn't they ever do the same with a marine in terminator armor. It wasn't Joe Schmoe marine we are talking about, I posted that there would probably be exceptional marines that they made an exception for. As you conceded that they were willing to make exceptions for someone wearing super-rare Artificer armor, why wouldn''t they EVER make a similar exception for another higly revered marine? On rare occasions they are willing to risk Dreadnought armor and Artificer armor, but never Terminator armor? I'm not buying it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonaides Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 artificier armour wasn't designed for a specific purpose. Artificier armour is issued to the marine, its his day to day work suit. Terminator armour is a walking shrine, with its own set of honours, is stored in the first company chapel as a revered relic, and on rare occasions veteran marines are allowed to wear it into battle. A vet who is allowed to wear tda still has his own suit of pa. If he even looks like falling to the rage, he wont be suited up as there would be too much risk to a valued chapter relic. To put it simpler- would you put on a 5,000 pound designer suit, diamond studded patent leather shoes and a top hat, borrowed from the queen, if you were about to go bog snorkling? Exactly... You wouldn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knife&fork Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 The fluff also seem to show PA as something you wear while TDA is something you almost pilot because it takes more training and skill to use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanguinarian Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 Have death company ever worn terminator armour, YES!if so why? Because the painter wanted them to!!! I saw a picture of Space Hulk Termies painted in DC fashion. I believe it is in OUR gallery. I am currently searching for it and will post it here if I can. Besides that, I think ALL things are possible. If a Terminator fell to the Black Rage during battle, I don't think his Commander is going to pull him off the line to have an official induction to the DC ranks and have servitors paint his TDA black. But that's between Blood Angel Chapter Masters, not Crimson Fists or any other yellow-bellies, so let's not argue this anymore in front of company. ;) @ OP: Can we legally field an official DC Terminator Squad according to our Codex? No! But if YOU paint them into DC livery and field them with a Chaplain/Reclusiarch and a Sanguinary Priest, then they will have the same buffs as PA DC plus a natural Invulnerable Save before FnP comes into play. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Fisting Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 *sigh* That wasn't the point. The point was they don't take a Marine that is already afflicted and entomb him. Allowing a DC dread to live in a sedated state makes sense, allowing Joe Schmoe Marine who just turned to wear one of your super-rare suits of TDA DOES NOT. *sigh indeed* Why wouldn't they ever do the same with a marine in terminator armor. It wasn't Joe Schmoe marine we are talking about, I posted that there would probably be exceptional marines that they made an exception for. As you conceded that they were willing to make exceptions for someone wearing super-rare Artificer armor, why wouldn''t they EVER make a similar exception for another higly revered marine? On rare occasions they are willing to risk Dreadnought armor and Artificer armor, but never Terminator armor? I'm not buying it. I'll concede that at some point maybe, MAYBE, some super special individual falls to the black rage while equipped with TDA and keeps it for the duration... But, a whole squad of DC in TDA? NOOOPE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabadin Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 Theoretically it was possible back in 2nd ed fluff, as Terminator armour was permanently bonded to the user's skeleton back then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanguinarian Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 *sigh* That wasn't the point. The point was they don't take a Marine that is already afflicted and entomb him. Allowing a DC dread to live in a sedated state makes sense, allowing Joe Schmoe Marine who just turned to wear one of your super-rare suits of TDA DOES NOT. *sigh indeed* Why wouldn't they ever do the same with a marine in terminator armor. It wasn't Joe Schmoe marine we are talking about, I posted that there would probably be exceptional marines that they made an exception for. As you conceded that they were willing to make exceptions for someone wearing super-rare Artificer armor, why wouldn''t they EVER make a similar exception for another higly revered marine? On rare occasions they are willing to risk Dreadnought armor and Artificer armor, but never Terminator armor? I'm not buying it. I'll concede that at some point maybe, MAYBE, some super special individual falls to the black rage while equipped with TDA and keeps it for the duration... But, a whole squad of DC in TDA? NOOOPE! This whole thread smacks of BA fan-boyism with a bunch of BA players that aren't happy with all the crap their chapter already gets access to and just want an excuse for DC TDA. Gimme a break! Chillax, CF! Nobody argued against the Codex that DC TDA should be allowed. We presented a natural solution involving black paint, a TDA Priest and a TDA Chaplain. This is a BA Forum and BAs answered a BA question. You're the one trolling for an arguement. Please cease and desist. The question was asked and answered. Peace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt. Blood Donator Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 Well, use better verbs next time so you don't have to sigh. A dread is nothing that is ever piloted, as it is de-facto a physical extention, rather than something you jump into. Never mind, I quess some people have a different mapping of that verb. Also, there were chapter approved rules during 3rd edition for a whole death company force, which then included terminators. There we go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Fisting Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 Well, use better verbs next time so you don't have to sigh. A dread is nothing that is ever piloted, as it is de-facto a physical extention, rather than something you jump into.Never mind, I quess some people have a different mapping of that verb. Also, there were chapter approved rules during 3rd edition for a whole death company force, which then included terminators. There we go. I wasn't the one that said they were "piloted", I used the terms "entombed" and "interred". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robot530 Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 Over the thousands of years, perhaps 5 exceptional individuals have fallen to the Rage while wearing TDA. Nigh invulnerable in battle they await the next fight slumbering in stasis until they are called upon to enter the fray yet again. Angering and insulting true fanboism worldwide! A secret weapon most powerful... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Chris Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 This thread got acrimonious quickly. In 40K there aren't DC terminators, though you could get just the same effect with adding a terminator Sanguinary priest and charging you terminators relentlessly after the nearest enemy. Can't think of any particular reason to do this but you could. In reality (if we can think like this) BAs can be overcome by the black rage in whatever circumstances they find themselves in. They can be chaplains like Lemartes or Librarians like Callistarius or Captains like Tycho, they can be venerable brothers entombed in Dreadnoughts. They can be assault marines or tacticals. Logically, I think they could be first company veterans in terminator armour. In the thick of battle, in a huge extended conflict like armageddon, then I doubt there would be much time to take them out of one suit and put them in another. Realistically, who would actually try to prise a TDA suit off a blood crazed maniac? So I imagine the answer is really yes. In game only the special character are there to cover the wider range than normal marines but remember we have even had a black raging chapter master in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wakim Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 For all the nay-sayers, i'm going to ask this: How many of you would be willing to take a Lightning Claw Terminator out of his armor after he fell to the Black Rage during a blattle? At least one chapter somwhere is going to keep some of them in statis for further use. Honestly whoever says "BA wouldn't risk Terminator Armor on DC" are hypocrits because BA already risk Dreadnaught armor on DC (by not killing the marine after he fell to the black rage inside the Dread). So yeah, your argument is invalid from the start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Fisting Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 For all the nay-sayers, i'm going to ask this: How many of you would be willing to take a Lightning Claw Terminator out of his armor after he fell to the Black Rage during a blattle? At least one chapter somwhere is going to keep some of them in statis for further use. Honestly whoever says "BA wouldn't risk Terminator Armor on DC" are hypocrits because BA already risk Dreadnaught armor on DC (by not killing the marine after he fell to the black rage inside the Dread). So yeah, your argument is invalid from the start. Too bad the codex proves otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wakim Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 For all the nay-sayers, i'm going to ask this: How many of you would be willing to take a Lightning Claw Terminator out of his armor after he fell to the Black Rage during a blattle? At least one chapter somwhere is going to keep some of them in statis for further use. Honestly whoever says "BA wouldn't risk Terminator Armor on DC" are hypocrits because BA already risk Dreadnaught armor on DC (by not killing the marine after he fell to the black rage inside the Dread). So yeah, your argument is invalid from the start. How so? The same codex says you can use Assaults as troops but tells you the BA don't use Assaults as troops but instead almost always follow the ultramarines armylist. Don't mistake game ballance decisions with fluff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 It's not that farfetched for me to imagine a small unit of Death Company terminators in some successor chapter. G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 Ok, this is the only warning I'm giving. Many posters from both sides of the argument are pushing this argument to the limits of trolling. Clearly everyone knows that Terminator DC are not something that is possible on the table top. But the discussion if it could ever happen in the fluff has merit and can be an interesting discussion if people can remain calm. On topic, personally I consider it highly unlikely DC would ever end up in terminator armor. Sure someone could fall during a battle, but anyone who fell before the fight would be put in the DC in normal power armor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 I agree- a DC who fell in battle while wearing terminator armor isnt going to be in a situation where his peers have the time to pry him out of the TDA- that stuff is tough, solid, and nigh-invulnerable. Getting a raving lunatic out of it who thinks hes battling hordes of demons and possibly a bloodthirster is going to be HARD. If a veteran fell before a battle he would be armored, blessed, and sent out for a glorious death- but not in one of the most sacred of chapter relics, the difficult to create and maintain TDA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 It is possible over protracted battle to be reborn. Legends are made as such. G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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