Purely Hypothetical Question

[Joasht]

I am of the opinion that currently as it is written, a "pair of Falchions" only provide +1A, not +2A, but this isn't something I am hoping to argue here, and I hope that no one would derail this thread arguing that it gives +2A instead.

 

However, should they errata it to be +2A (I HIGHLY doubt they would, since it appears fairly clear they only ever intended it to give +1A) would it then become a viable choice? I'm asking as I'm still pondering how many magnets I should put into my GK's - if Falchions become an option that means I would need to use quite a number more magnets to magnetize those falchion hands. And if you do the math, magnets are not necessarily cheap (not in Asia anyway, where I'm from), and the cost of those magnets here and there eventually add up to the point you might as well buy more models.

 

I personally think *IF* they gave +2A the Falchions would become a better choice than they are right now for melee-orientated squads (note I'm not talking shooty squads, I think shooty GKSS squads especially should still use swords to keep them cheap), but I would argue that given their (inexplicably) high points cost, it *may* still be better to use Halberds as I6 is hard to beat, thus permitting you to lessen your casualties as you strike before them, or against I6 units like Genestealers, at least you get to thin their numbers with your full force rather than with whatever was left standing.

 

 

What do you guys think?

 

Thanks!

[Drudge Dreadnought]

I think Falchions aren't worth taking at face value. However, if you have a librarian buffing the unit, they are suddenly amazing. Quicksilver gives you I10 anyway, and it means more attacks to benefit from hammerhand and titan's might. They still won't be worth the price on a strike squad or interceptors, but for terminators and purifiers they become an attractive option.

[DeathKorpsman]

I think it would still be a good choice in a few situations. Specifically, if you plan on taking a Librarian with Quickening they can be better barring psychic protections your opponent may have. Even without that, I think they are viable for any of the Terminator options as it gives them more swings that they don't have to charge to get and are cheaper for TDA to boot. In PA squads they seem questionable, compared to halberds/hammers, but I still wouldn't see them as an altogether poor choice. If you plan on taking assault oriented Purifiers for example, they are still quite nice (also, again, cheaper).

[Gentlemanloser]

I think Falchions aren't worth taking at face value. However, if you have a librarian buffing the unit, they are suddenly amazing. Quicksilver gives you I10 anyway, and it means more attacks to benefit from hammerhand and titan's might. They still won't be worth the price on a strike squad or interceptors, but for terminators and purifiers they become a more attractive option.

 

That in a nutshell.

 

They will only be better than Halberd when you have aLibby casting Quick in the Squad. With that, they become the best upgrade by far. You don't even need a Hammer in the Squad if yu've got Might alongisde Quick.

[ValourousHeart]

Not true, falchions are better than halberds vs any army that is I3.

Let's see that would be IG, Orks, Tau & Sisters.

Did I miss anyone?

 

If you disagree, please tell me what I6 does for you that I4 doesn't vs I3 or less?

 

Sure if you only face MEQ or the army of the month, halberds are better, but if you actually see a decent mix of codex you have to consider falchions for the half that out numbers us and is I3.

[Hellios]

Not true, falchions are better than halberds vs any army that is I3.

Let's see that would be IG, Orks, Tau & Sisters.

Did I miss anyone?

 

If you disagree, please tell me what I6 does for you that I4 doesn't vs I3 or less?

 

Sure if you only face MEQ or the army of the month, halberds are better, but if you actually see a decent mix of codex you have to consider falchions for the half that out numbers us and is I3.

 

Oh and if you expect to face a lot of howling Banshees or lash whips...

[Sothalor]

If you're running a big squad of Paladins (like 8-10) then I think falchions may be useful for wound allocation purposes.

[The Rose Princes]

combat squading your purgatory into the 4 guns and 5 cc guys, worth it.

purifiers already with the 2 base attack defiantly worth it.

terminators of any style, most defiantly.

 

long story short, just magnet the hell out of everything.... just to be on the safe side.

[Techmarine Harkus]

I'm holding off on building some Purifiers (they need white helmets, so I cant just magnetise up a SS/IS like I'm already doing) until it's FAQ'd whether it's +1A or +2A. If its +2, then I'll probably be doing about half and half per 10. I6 is too useful to have any less in my mind. If 1A then I'd probably take somewhere between 0 and 3. I've not decided yet.

 

Same with an Interceptor squad. If it's +2 then you could take them from a jump infantry close range fire support sort of unit, and use them as a straight forward assault squad if they were hitting up 3A, 4 on the charge. That seems rather awesome, but it's quite a few extra points. My SS aren't getting anything but 1 hammer and swords. My IS will most likely be the same. If it turns out I can and want a choppy-as-hell IS then I'll just buy more models.

 

As far as paladins for wound allocation goes it's a fair point, but personally not something I would do. You have to pay some points for a start. Then you have to consider that a new edition of the rules isn't that far around the corner, and even if they dont scrap wound allocation as I'm hoping, they really better try and fix it so you cant abuse it this way. That said, if they are +2A ... then sure, I'll be taking one or two guys, but I'll also be buying more models to make them with, because I want to get my pallys on the table before the FAQ comes out, since I dont know when that is.

 

Not only are the magnets expensive for all the arms but it also takes time. Obviously it's quicker than building up and painting a whole new squad, but you cant honestly tell me that drilling the holes and fitting magnets is more fun, otherwise you're in the wrong hobby. Another thing I'm starting to dislike about magnets on infantry especially, is unless you are cunning, it leaves your guys with sort of poseable arms. which is kinda weird for me since I normally spend almost as much time posing the more interesting models as I do painting them.

[Oiad]

Definitely agree with ValourousHeart & co. Force weapons weren't really meant to be treated as part of a static formation. I6 is wasted on a number of the armies out there. That said because of the price they'd probably still be used by only a handful of my models.

 

EDIT - Took out own question.

[BrotherWasted]

I6 beats:

 

Eldar

Dark Eldar

Most if not all loyalist SM Codexes

Nids

Chaos

Daemons

 

In other words, the majority of the Codices available. Falchions are pointless when developing an army to take on all-comers.

[Lord Cuthbert]

I think Falchions aren't worth taking at face value. However, if you have a librarian buffing the unit, they are suddenly amazing. Quicksilver gives you I10 anyway, and it means more attacks to benefit from hammerhand and titan's might. They still won't be worth the price on a strike squad or interceptors, but for terminators and purifiers they become an attractive option.

 

 

I agree completely, Terminators or Paladins with a Libby, otherwise meh.

[gil galed]

I think they should be +2 because as has been shown here otherwise no one will take them, and that would be a shame because they are really pretty!

 

If I knew I was against a low I army i'd love to run a full squad of purifiers with +2a falcions. Imagine them charging an ork mob, cleansing flame followed by 5PW attacks each.... mmmmm....

 

~Gil :tu:

[The Rose Princes]

however, you must know your environment.

 

Category I: IG, Necrons, Orks, Tau & Sisters - people you have better initiative than anyway. you waste points on halberds, falchions win you the day.

 

Category II: other Space Marines - people who you will be going simultaneously. with falchions you get your attacks, but so do they... halberds will win the day; however late in the game those extra attacks per model could have won you that day.

 

Category III: Eldar, Dark Eldar, Nids, Chaos, Daemons - people who have better initiative than you. falchions would have done you no good if you die before your initiative.

 

 

now, look at what percent of players use armies from categories II & III? if you're expecting all comers, you want majority halberds... but one or two dedicated cc falchion squads would not be a bad thing.

[boreas]

I was wondering the same thing as I'm building my models. I'll definitely put falchions on a few models, if only for the "cool" factor. As I play friendly, I can always count the as a single NFS. If they turn out to be +2 attacks (which, at a cheap 5pts, I doubt), som much the better! I plan to run my termies/paladins "warband" style, with a cool mix of weapons. I might not be the "optimal" mix, but I find that the slight disadvantage of, say getting one less halberd but a pair of falchions is compensated by the fact that cool units roll better dice :huh:

 

Phil

[Gentlemanloser]

Falchions are only 'cheap' in the units that already get cheap(er) upgrades.

 

I6 Halberds beat out Falchion in the majority of situations, and are always cheaper on these units. On Strikes/Interceptors, the cost for Falchion is really quite prohibative.

[nurglez]

I'm in the +1 attack camp, but I will still use a few, because they look cool and I only really play friendly games. I'll be using paladins only, so having a few different looking models will be cool. I'll aim to have mostly halberds as well, because they look cool too :D

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Falchions are utterly worthless. Close-combat is won on Initiative and hitting power. Grey Knights already bring the latter (with massed power weapons and good support powers to make them even better), with I6 you'll actually win combat vs assault units. More attacks aren't needed (both Purifiers and Terminators are 2A base, and 'Sanctuary' should be ensuring you get the charge), you need to get the jump on people.

 

More to the point, on every unit in the codex, you pay for falchions. By comparison, halberds are free on TDA squads, and dirt-cheap on Purifiers. Instead of paying for more attacks (which you don't need), you could invest said points into something useful, like another psycannon (which you can never have enough of).

[Captain Psycho]

I don't like them on GKTs because they get halberds for free, but I do like them on Purifiers as they also get them for 5 points each and I think falchions look way cooler on PAGKs then on GKTs (did anyone else think of butterfly swords when they saw them the first time?).

[Gentlemanloser]

If you've got a libby with Sanctuary, take Quicksilver as well.

 

Then Falchions > Halberds. :tu:

[Hellios]

Category III: Eldar, Dark Eldar, Nids, Chaos, Daemons - people who have better initiative than you. falchions would have done you no good if you die before your initiative.

 

 

now, look at what percent of players use armies from categories II & III? if you're expecting all comers, you want majority halberds... but one or two dedicated cc falchion squads would not be a bad thing.

 

Its woth mentioning that a number of Eldar and Dark Eldar units will still strike first even with halberds so in larger squads and not including points (as everyone has their own oppinion and on what is worth it and what isn't) having those extra attacks could help even out combat resolution in the first round... Swords and Staves being the first to bite th dust (or survive) and depending on what kind of casualities you think you will take you can decide if it would be better off to kill the swords and have the higher I in the next rounds where you will strike at the same time or before them or if it is better to have the extra attacks now so you don't lose combat...

 

I agree that overall all rounders will want helberds.