Deathleaper

[templarios]

Greetings,

 

I have succumbed and will be playing a 2k game using someone else's GK army. I have fallen behind in my GK painting schedule due to my family comes first rule. My opponent will be a good friend of mine who loves Tyranids. The only thing that bothers me will be if he brings his Deathleaper. Supposedly, this model has several rules where as one of them in particular can really hamper a GK army. This is its "-D3 to a character's leadership" rule. I know he will target my Librarian and at a potential -3 to my leadership, I will hesitate to use his psychic powers.

 

My question is this: Does this model have to be on the table for this power to work (deathleaper always starts in reserve)?? Anybody else worried?

 

Thanks,

 

Templarios

[Zhukov]

As long as the deathleaper is ALIVE, the effect is active. Yes, also when he is in reserves.

 

Worried? No of course not, Tyranids are bad against GK's; it's their worst matchup by far. Deathleaper doesn't chang anything about this. The Deahtleaper itself costs 140 points btw, maybe that takes away any remaining doubts you might have ;)

[Brother Nihm]

He nominates the target of its ability at the start of the game.

Then,

 

"While The Deathleaper is still alive" the target is affected.

 

Edit: Beaten by Zhukov.

[StormTAG]

Worried? No of course not, Tyranids are bad against GK's; it's their worst matchup by far.

 

I don't know much about Tyranids. Why is this the case?

[Souba]

tyranids lack good armor saves. even warriors only come with a 4+. meaning our psycannons shred right into their skin. those little buggers get eaten by stormbolters/flamers/psycannons too. on the counter, tyranids lack at shooting. BF3 on most and the best AP they got is 4 (only zoans and carnis with bioplasma get better AP but carnis are dead in 5th) meaning GK have a good chance at surviving

 

even the big bugs have problems, psycannons wound em on a 3+ and if they dare to run in assault on GK with halberds they are as good as dead, first of all the shooting puts some wounds on them and the halberds do the rest. even trygons with adrenal glands strike only at I5 on the charge. on top of that, tyranids lack assault grenades. only carnifexes and units within 6" of a toxotroph are able to get em. making you sitting in cover even better. the only ones striking at I6 are genestealers and even those lack assault grenades.

 

all you have to do as GK : sit in cover, shoot em, shoot em some more and then just rack the rest up. all thats good for tyranids is shadow of the warp, letting you force psytest on 3d6 if you are in range.

[The Rose Princes]

as a 10 year tyranid vet... there are a couple other things to worry about.

 

mawlocs can hit you with a large blast str 6 ap 2 as a deep strike move, so mind your warp quakes.

trygon primes deep strike and have 18 STR 5 shots AP 5 shots, saturation of shots on small squads will make them die quickly; again mind your warp quakes and be aware of support on your outlying smaller units if you're using combat squads.

broodlords and most charging genestealers will still be going before halberds; use your cover and remember a broodlord is a psyker.

[Seahawk]

S'only 12 shots from a Trygon Prime, but still that's a lotta dakka.

 

Be wary that good Tyranids players will get lots of cover saves, so psycannons and the like might be less useful than, say, incinerators. The right Tyranid shooting will be wrecking your vehicles left and right, so be sure to give/boost their cover saves as much as possible. After all, six S8 shots at BS4 that don't need LOS (from only one unit, not counting any further ones) will ruin most vehicle's days. Land raiders, on the other hand, are really tough nuts to crack.

 

While you can charge Tyranids, it's not the best situation, especially when Venomthropes are on the table. If you charge a unit affected by them, not only do you take Dangerous Terrain tests, but your initiative is reduced to 1 and you don't get the bonus attack for charging. When they charge you (and you're sitting in cover like you should be), you're going first anyway so Halberds, actually, are probably not even necessary.

[Eddie Orlock]

...trygon primes deep strike and have 18 STR 5 shots AP 5 shots,...

S'only 12 shots from a Trygon Prime, but still that's a lotta dakka. ...

Near as I could tell from reading my 'Nid dex, a Prime technically has two guns, the basic six shots at a foot, and the upgrade dozen at a foot and a half. Being a Monster it can fire both for a total of eighteen shots. The upgrade to primeness mentions nothing about removing any equipment, only adding.

[Souba]

If you charge a unit affected by them, not only do you take Dangerous Terrain tests, but your initiative is reduced to 1 and you don't get the bonus attack for charging. When they charge you (and you're sitting in cover like you should be), you're going first anyway so Halberds, actually, are probably not even necessary.

 

as all GK have frag& krag grenades, initiative wont be a problem at charging tyranids in cover with GK or even GK terminators.

dont forget the libbys sanctuary power as it also grants every allied unit in range that big protection against assaulting.

 

 

Near as I could tell from reading my 'Nid dex, a Prime technically has two guns, the basic six shots at a foot, and the upgrade dozen at a foot and a half. Being a Monster it can fire both for a total of eighteen shots. The upgrade to primeness mentions nothing about removing any equipment, only adding.

 

no, have my tyranid codex on the lap and it says on the trygon primes containment spines that if he uses his bio electric pulse he use the following profile. thats the 12 shots from him.

still his 12 shots are still something a GK can mostly shrug off, only halv of em hit and only 66% wound, making 4 wounds on a 3+ save lets you take 1.333 wounds. thats really not that strong for an upgrade cost thats twice as high as the GK you killed with it (besides granting you another synapse unit)

[Seahawk]

Near as I could tell from reading my 'Nid dex, a Prime technically has two guns, the basic six shots at a foot, and the upgrade dozen at a foot and a half. Being a Monster it can fire both for a total of eighteen shots. The upgrade to primeness mentions nothing about removing any equipment, only adding.

Yea, you have to read the unit entry on pg 50 for this. Containment spines isn't a weapon, it's wargear that modifies the bio-electric pulse profile to shoot the following: 12 shots, 18" etc etc. You got me all worked up and happy that my Trygons got so much better before I went and checked my book :).

[The Rose Princes]

um.... i don't know which book your looking at Seashawk, it does not modify, it has two guns, one 12" the other 18", the trygon has 1, the trygon prime has both, and monstrous creatures can shoot two weapons at once.

[number6]

the trygon prime has both, and monstrous creatures can shoot two weapons at once.

The Trygon Prime does not have two shooting weapons. Reread the rules description on p. 50.

 

A Trygon Prime uses the following profile when firing its bio-electric pulse

[Eddie Orlock]

no, have my tyranid codex on the lap and it says on the trygon primes containment spines that if he uses his bio electric pulse he use the following profile. thats the 12 shots from him.

Good that you have it in your lap, far more accessable than at home in my case, but your paraphrasing when you can see the text. In the case of a rules discussion, I strongly encourage you to post the actual rules text.

 

Imperitor knows that if I had mine at hand I'd bust out some quotations, even if they just proved me wrong. It'd still be good to know.

[Seahawk]

Again like I said, read page 50 (when you get home ;)). You'll see exactly what number6 quoted:

 

A Trygon Prime uses the following profile when firing its bio-electric pulse

 

Containment Spines is not a weapon in any sense, merely an upgrade to an existing one.

[The Rose Princes]

seriously, your using a non-capitalized flavor text for your argument? next you'll tell me that the part of the bio-electric pulse rule that if the model doesn't move he cannot shoot?

 

nevermind, not arguing tyranid rule semantics on a power armor board.... believe what you wish.

[Joasht]

My usual answer to the Deathleaper is a point-blank melta-to-the-face but alas that isn't an option here. He isn't very scary somewhat, just irritating.

 

*However*, scary as it may sound, you have to remember that Nids are very limited in their anti-armor guns, most of which (Hive Guard/Zoanthropes) are Elite, and thus, if he took the Deathleaper, that means you have one squad less of Zoans/HG to be worried about.

[Seahawk]

nevermind, not arguing tyranid rule semantics on a power armor board.... believe what you wish.

You're right, but it's completely within the purview of the OR section. In fact, discussion has started!

[Liberame]

Food for thought. Warp Quake will not stop a Mawloc. Terror from the deep rule states that instead of mishap resolve etc etc.

[StormTAG]

I don't have my books with me but can you use a Force Weapon to suck the soul out of a Monstrous Creature? How about a Gargantuan Creature (ala Apocalypse?)

[Liberame]

MC yes, GC? idk I never played apoc

[Seahawk]

You can force weapon any of the monstrous creatures from the Tyranid codex; that's something that makes GK particularly strong against that book. Gargantuan creatures are immune to psychic powers entirely, so force weapons do not work on them, though the power weapon part still does.

[Ashe Darke]

Force Weapons cause D3 wounds on Gargantuan Creatures.

[Grey Mage]

Force Weapons cause D3 wounds on Gargantuan Creatures.

 

I personally think thats more of a hold-over from 4rth edition though, since Force Weapons work very differently now.

 

It takes a bit of house-ruling. Most places Ive seen do it just do d3 wounds instead of a single wound. Of course, in order to use the power you have to have already wounded the creature- so it probly RAW should be d3+1. At the same time it could be argued the weapon does d3 wounds each time you wound the MC, but its immune to the power as not only are gargantuan creatures immune to psychic powers without a strength value, theyre also immune to instant death.

seriously, your using a non-capitalized flavor text for your argument? next you'll tell me that the part of the bio-electric pulse rule that if the model doesn't move he cannot shoot?

 

nevermind, not arguing tyranid rule semantics on a power armor board.... believe what you wish.

 

I welcome your thoughts on the matter in the OR forum- your army of choice isnt important, but if your a nid player your knowledge of the codex would be helpful. My main problem with the assertation that its a second weapon is that its listed as a biomorph in the armory section.