Monstrous Creatures and intervening models

[DarkGuard]

Hi all. I'm about to ask a rules question I'm sure I know the answer for. However, earlier my opponent was arguing this point, and I although everyone else in the room disagreed with him, he was very vehement in his protests, claiming that this was the GT ruling.

 

Anyway, the following situation arose. A unit of 10 Dark Eldar Warriors (my ally's) in a Raider were drawing line of sight to a Daemon Prince. In range with all weapons, including a blaster. The only piece of intervening terrain was a crater, so obviously no cover save from that. However, in that crater was a unit of 9 Incubi. Now they were in the centre of the crater, and the lip of the crater was in the middle of the line between the Raider and the Daemon Prince. Therefore, only one Incubus was in the line of the shot as it were. Now we were arguing that MCs need to 50% obscured to claim a cover save. The Incubi hardly covered 25%, especially when we consider that the Raider is a skimmer and was still mobile, and so therefore on a flying base. So against the blaster, the Daemon Prince cannot claim a cover save as 50% of it wasn't obscured, it could therefore only take its invulnerable save.

 

Our opponent's reasoning, on the other hand, was that any intervening models allow any model behind to claim a cover save. citing text on page 21. He also referenced the picture on page 22 where Space Marine B gets a cover save for being behind area terrain between two trees, despite the fact that he is clearly seen. With this reasoning he claimed that his Daemon Prince would get a cover save from the Incubi unit, despite what page 51 says about MCs needing to be 50% obscured like vehicles.

 

In the end the Daemon Prince didn't get the cover save and it eventually died to shooting. However, I am concerned about this. My opponent said he's discussed this with his friend who is a regularly Grand Tournament participant, and with the Games Workshop staff in our local area who supposedly agreed with him. So was he right? Or were we?

 

Thanks for your help guys.

[Grey Mage]

Unit-specific rules override general rules. As such, the MC needs to be obscured (50%) to gain a cover save from the intervening models.

 

Edit: Ive heard alot of dubious comments from supposed grand tournament rulings- for example, several people have claimed they were allowed to assault with basic, non-fleeting scouts after a scout move in a grand tournament, despite this being mathematically impossible.

[SeattleDV8]

Agreed, and remember a GT's ruling is only good for that GT, just like any tournament.

Yes it may be ran by GW, but I've also heard of some terrible rulings from them.

For example, transports not counting as Kill points although the BRB clearly states they are.

[Spacefrisian]

In the end the Daemon Prince didn't get the cover save and it eventually died to shooting. However, I am concerned about this. My opponent said he's discussed this with his friend who is a regularly Grand Tournament participant, and with the Games Workshop staff in our local area who supposedly agreed with him. So was he right? Or were we?

 

 

My guess is he hasnt discussed this with anyone, he just wanted a coversave and forget to notice the ruling on this in the brb. or the ones he had discussed this with him dont know the rulebook that well.

 

BTw: if you meet him again show him p51 of the brb.

[DarkGuard]

In the end the Daemon Prince didn't get the cover save and it eventually died to shooting. However, I am concerned about this. My opponent said he's discussed this with his friend who is a regularly Grand Tournament participant, and with the Games Workshop staff in our local area who supposedly agreed with him. So was he right? Or were we?

 

 

My guess is he hasnt discussed this with anyone, he just wanted a coversave and forget to notice the ruling on this in the brb. or the ones he had discussed this with him dont know the rulebook that well.

 

BTw: if you meet him again show him p51 of the brb.

 

We showed him that page, but he still disagreed. He's actually a nice guy, and despite what it may sound like by this incident doesn't normally try to gain advantages. Due to his character I believe him when he said he had discussed this with someone, which was why I was worried.

 

Cheers for all the responses guys, thanks to you lot I have kept my sanity :P.

[Spacefrisian]

Well it cant be helped if he keeps disagreeing, the rules are clear as crystal. His loss i suppose (and the ones who agree with him, that GT dude should shame himself.)

[Grey Mage]

Well, I would suggest asking him to ignore the ruling for the time being- and play it by the core book until he can find a GT FAQ that supports his position. Individual judges sometimes make glaring mistakes, but if they wrote it down itd be something to consider for your group.

[DarkGuard]

Well, I would suggest asking him to ignore the ruling for the time being- and play it by the core book until he can find a GT FAQ that supports his position. Individual judges sometimes make glaring mistakes, but if they wrote it down itd be something to consider for your group.

 

Thanks again. By the sounds of it most of us disagree with him, and in the end he relented to prevent further argument. I know that with my MCs I'm playing it by what it says on the MC page :tu:.