Age of Darkness - Savage Weapons

[Knight of the First Legion]

Hail Brothers,

 

So I have been able to get my hands on a copy of Age of Darkness a little early and with no small amount of exciment and trepidation (I really want/view the Lion to be a loyalist) I sat down to read Aaron Demski-Bowden's Dark Angels V Night Lords story.

 

The story itself is quite short (only 48 pages), but its worth every word and for me clears up nicely a couple of things, but also leaves with a Fallen Angels style Lion moment at the end.

 

Spoliers follow:

 

 

The story focusses on a meeting, and then fight between the Lion and Curze during the campaign for the Aegis Subsector which if secured for the loyalist or trators would be a major boon to their war effort, but which neither the Dark Angels nor the Night Lords can secure due to then being evenly matched and the region being cut off by the warp. Curze who the Lion has been chasing without success calls the meeting to try and convince the Lion to side with Horus, the Lion rejects him and fighting ensues, with both Primarchs being wounded, but neither winning. The Night Lords come out on top to a degree as the Lion needs to be rescued by a Dark Angel from Curze and the Dark Angels lose one captain dead and a paladin wounded to Curze's warriors.

 

 

 

Social problems

 

Definately socially inept, struggles with emotion etc supressing it within himself. His statements are somtimes almost feral growls and his voice is commented as being 'never able to be mistaken for being human' So the Lion really is the 'son of the forest' still

 

 

A loyal son.

 

This was somthing that I was very happy about as I've never liked the Astellan viewpoint that the Lion waited to see who won, although in the story Curze baits him by saying that it is how the Lion and the Dark Angels will be viewed because they are not on terra.

 

The Lion states that the Dark Angels have tried to reach terra and have been thwarted by the warp and that it is where he wants to be, Curze is also aware that the Lion cannot get to terra due to the warp and mocks him for it. As a result of his inability to get to terra the Lion considers it his duty to defend and hold together the wider imperium for his father (along with Guilliman who is similarly affected) as it is pointless for terra to survive to only find that the rest of the imperium has fallen.

 

The Lion rejects Curze's calls for him to join the traitors and then fights Curze face to face wounding him (including a first blow landed without warning), and being wounded in turn (the Lion wins the sparring style combat and then struggles when Curze launches himself at him in a brawling style). In fact the Lion needs to be rescued by a Dark Angel to avoid being killed by Curze.

 

 

Caliban

 

It would appear that Horus is aware of the problems on Caliban and has old Curze. Curze mocks the Lion about it, but the Lion does not appear to make the connection/take him seriously/believe him (more lack of social skills?)

 

 

Lack of trust/suspicion

 

In the book Curze and the Lion leave their respective honour guards (one of the Dark Angels being the character from whose viewpoint the story is told) and talk alone, you do not know what is said here, but upon their return the Lion strikes the first blow to Curze.

 

 

Comming to the final point. As the stoty ends the warp calms and contact is once again made with the wider imperium. The Lion tells his warriors that Guilliman has summoned the First Legion to fight at his side to wich the Lion remarks 'My sons, it seems Horus is not the only soul to believe he is heir to an empire'. This is said without warmth and is the only time that the Lion refers to any Dark Angel as Son rather that Brother or Little Brother.

 

 

So it answers and adds to the questions about our beloved Primarch, I only hope the rest of the stories in the book can match this one

 

KOTFL

[Marshal Wilhelm]

Very good!

[HsojVvad]

Thank you for sharing.

[Lord Ragnarok]

Muuuust, Resist spoiiilllers! ARrrrrrrgh! :)

[Chapter Master Ignis Domus]

I think spoilers tags should be banned. They just make me want to read them. :)

[pueriexdeus]

I think spoilers tags should be banned. They just make me want to read them. :rolleyes:

Heck. I'll read the spoilers just as I watch commercials for for a movie, might make me want to dig deeper.. Might

[Candleshoes]

Thank you for sharing, you made my night.

 

I have the novel pre-ordered at my local GW and the audio-book on pre-order as well (also read the small teaser ADB posted last November).

 

** That being said, I haven't read the story, but did read the spoilers above, and in no way did they "spoil" anything, they just pushed my excitement level to 11. I wholeheartedly suggest anyone else reading to look at the words blacked out, they act more as a preview to what I am sure is going to be a momentous 48 page read. You won't regret it! That last comment with the quote gave me chills.**

[WGXH]

I fully admit I have not yet read it, but it seems my fear may be a bit well founded.

 

*spoilers*

 

 

ADB is a superb writer- perhaps the best the Black Library has- but I find that the Night Lords seem to take a lot of spotlight in his work. It was a Night Lord who first said "Death to the False Emperor". It was Curze who saved Lorgar from Corax. And now it is Curze who bests the Dark Angel's Primarch in their own short story. Our primarch, who has fought evenly with Leman Russ, has been disgraced with a stomp battle from what could appear to be an Author's pet character. This is taken out of context, however- it could simply be that the Dark Angel Marines was the first to intervene, not nessecerily that Lion got goomba stomped, and that both Lion and Curze were majorly messed up by their encounter.

 

[Knight of the First Legion]

I fully admit I have not yet read it, but it seems my fear may be a bit well founded.

 

*spoilers*

 

 

ADB is a superb writer- perhaps the best the Black Library has- but I find that the Night Lords seem to take a lot of spotlight in his work. It was a Night Lord who first said "Death to the False Emperor". It was Curze who saved Lorgar from Corax. And now it is Curze who bests the Dark Angel's Primarch in their own short story. Our primarch, who has fought evenly with Leman Russ, has been disgraced with a stomp battle from what could appear to be an Author's pet character. This is taken out of context, however- it could simply be that the Dark Angel Marines was the first to intervene, not nessecerily that Lion got goomba stomped, and that both Lion and Curze were majorly messed up by their encounter.

 

My thoughts on the Primarch fight

 

 

I can see your concerns, and at the end I was a little dissapointed that the Lion needed help from the Dark Angel (to answer your other question, niether of the Night Lords get involved as they are to busy killing the other DA captain). What ADB makes clear is that in a straight fight the Lion is easily the superior warrior, it is only when Curze throws himself at the Lion (catching him by suprise) that things go bad for him, still i would have liked the Lion not to have needed the help.

 

At the end of the fight both primarchs are described as being equally hurt and both have to be dragged away by their warriors, as they want to finish each other off.

 

 

KOTFL

[Candleshoes]

 

Curze is (would have been) one of the most brutal, un-orthodox and murderous primarchs, and unless it was a fair and balanced fight, I would not expect The Lion to come out on top (ie: the odds would be even).

 

Where The Lion is a martial knight-lord, being steeped heavily in tradition and has the willpower to meet any challenge (sometimes missing the consequences), being a superior bred warrior will only go so far against a primarch who embodies everything against order, and who attacks in an un-orthodox manner. I don't think he is spotlighting Curze in our story by making a fight even, and the comment about Russ, you have to remember that Russ is an honour bound individual, and though he would fight in a feral manner, he would still maintain some semblance from the warrior tribes of Fenris. An equal should never back down from an equal in combat. Curze would be a nightmare to fight, as he doesn't doesn't subscribe to the aforementioned and would be most dangerous in doing anything and everything to beat an enemy. Messy but brutally effective.

 

That said, still looking forward to the read.

 

[The_son_of_Dorn]

Curze is (would have been) one of the most brutal, un-orthodox and murderous primarchs, and unless it was a fair and balanced fight, I would not expect The Lion to come out on top (ie: the odds would be even).

 

Where The Lion is a martial knight-lord, being steeped heavily in tradition and has the willpower to meet any challenge (sometimes missing the consequences), being a superior bred warrior will only go so far against a primarch who embodies everything against order, and who attacks in an un-orthodox manner. I don't think he is spotlighting Curze in our story by making a fight even, and the comment about Russ, you have to remember that Russ is an honour bound individual, and though he would fight in a feral manner, he would still maintain some semblance from the warrior tribes of Fenris. An equal should never back down from an equal in combat. Curze would be a nightmare to fight, as he doesn't doesn't subscribe to the aforementioned and would be most dangerous in doing anything and everything to beat an enemy. Messy but brutally effective.

 

That said, still looking forward to the read.

 

agreed.

I do believe that in a contest of martial skill and set rules for figthing ability that the Lion would of come out on top. However as Kurze is not restricted by this and can fight like the murderous animal he is he most likely caught his brother Primarch by suprise, and lets not forget Konrad has also knocked Dorn out sparco as well.

 

[WGXH]

Curze is (would have been) one of the most brutal, un-orthodox and murderous primarchs, and unless it was a fair and balanced fight, I would not expect The Lion to come out on top (ie: the odds would be even).

 

 

From the sounds of it, The Lion is needing a strecher. Doesn't sound particularly even to me.

 

[Candleshoes]

When I said "even" I meant that the outcome isn't already hypothetically determined to swing massively in one persons favor (much like Lorgar vs Corax). I personally believe if the two fought, the Lion would lose, that's just me, and it also speaks to Curze's strength. If anything, I would have been shocked if the Lion came out on top, better off, and in a way, it would have really taken away from the story if he did give Curze a beating. Remember these two grew in the wild, completely neglected from human nuture. One became the monster he is, one became the warlord the land needed.

[A D-B]

I fully admit I have not yet read it, but it seems my fear may be a bit well founded.

 

*spoilers*

 

 

ADB is a superb writer- perhaps the best the Black Library has- but I find that the Night Lords seem to take a lot of spotlight in his work. It was a Night Lord who first said "Death to the False Emperor". It was Curze who saved Lorgar from Corax. And now it is Curze who bests the Dark Angel's Primarch in their own short story. Our primarch, who has fought evenly with Leman Russ, has been disgraced with a stomp battle from what could appear to be an Author's pet character. This is taken out of context, however- it could simply be that the Dark Angel Marines was the first to intervene, not nessecerily that Lion got goomba stomped, and that both Lion and Curze were majorly messed up by their encounter.

 

Massive story spoilers, yo.

 

 

Actually, I'd say you're seeing it from the wrong angle. Curze "saved" Lorgar from Corax, in the sense that... who else could have? Horus, Fulgrim, Angron and Mortarion weren't at that part of the battlefield. Perturabo was overseeing the shelling, and wasn't there, either. Who was left? Curze and Alpharius. And which one has the most interesting narrative impact when they save their corrupt brother and his Legion? Curze, because Curze advocates against the concept of Chaos, which Lorgar's warriors embody. Who is also often considered a dark reflection of Corax, for better or worse? Curze. Who else could lock claws with Corax, pale-guy-with-claws against pale-guy-with-claws? Curze. It's really just as simple as that. I don't have factions that I like to show more than any other, or ones that I think are "better" than any other. I just go with what feels right.

 

Curze doesn't best the Lion. It's a fight like most fights between equals; it ebbs and flows, with the advantage exchanging between each participant. The Lion starts out easily beating the hell out of Curze when it comes to weapons, but when it devolves into a brawl on the ground, Curze starts to come out on top. Then the fight is ended by a Dark Angel, before any real conclusion. Were the Night Lords smart and/or brave enough to end the fight? Nope. The Dark Angels did. A knight left his sword in a primarch's spine. That's balls of solid bronze, right there. And right at the end, it's clear that it was an equal resolution: both primarchs are equally wounded. Even the Night Lords in this story don't get the main character, Corswain. Sevatar and Sheng are held off by one Angel, and Curze gets sneak attacked a second time because he's too frothing and wounded to focus like a decent warrior would.

 

 

This really highlights one of the dangers of 40K. You write something with absolute neutrality; with no one winning; with both sides inflicting equal damage to one another; even with one side getting the advantage over a faction you usually write about, and still it's easy to see it as "This guy makes the Night Lords awesome all the time." Um. Like... when I make them cowards? When I make the Lion out to be the epitome of knightly valour and loyalty, while Curze is a suffering wretch who gets

impaled by two sneak attacks?

They got a cameo in The First Heretic, when Curze saves (and hates) the character I really like, and Sevatar is ordered to stop Corax, which he immediately fails to do. As cameos go, that's not exactly exalting them.

 

Nothing - nothing - is as disheartening as comments like this. Everyone is totally entitled to their opinions, and no one will ever see 40K quite the same way (I'm sure there'll be loads of Night Lord fans that hate me for Curze not easily beating the snot out of the Lion) and I don't take any personal offence at those kind of comments. But they're like enthusiasm poison. I can already feel myself instinctively hesitant to go near the Dark Angels again, because they'd be fighting the Night Lords. The obvious answer is that I should chill out and grow up, and be professional enough not to worry about that sort of thing. I'm working on that, but it takes time.

[Isiah]

Thanks for the reply A D-B.

 

I think there's nothing like a bit of perceptive insight from the creator to shed a different slant on things. Keep going with what you're doing... First Heretic was great on many levels, and although a much more compressed canvas, I'm looking forwards to this short story too :D.

 

Cheers

I

[krewl]

<<SNIPPETY SNIP>>

 

Nothing - nothing - is as disheartening as comments like this. Everyone is totally entitled to their opinions, and no one will ever see 40K quite the same way (I'm sure there'll be loads of Night Lord fans that hate me for Curze not easily beating the snot out of the Lion) and I don't take any personal offence at those kind of comments. But they're like enthusiasm poison. I can already feel myself instinctively hesitant to go near the Dark Angels again, because they'd be fighting the Night Lords. The obvious answer is that I should chill out and grow up, and be professional enough not to worry about that sort of thing. I'm working on that, but it takes time.

Always remember you are on the internet and any and all opinions will be posted. That includes the ones that feel you are horrible misjudged in your approach, and you should never write about the DA again.

 

I can see why you choose to do what you did, having read thousands of books I feel you are in the higher tier of writing (With all do respect some 40k writers are a challenge to read as they do not captivate me at all. Bolter Porn is the term I think I read describing some of it.)

 

Thing is; don't let negative comments disheart you as I and severall other would NOT want you to stop writing bits about the DA (Or hint hint, whole books, several in a row even :D ), that just happens on the webs. Whatever you would try to do someone would always dislike you for it. Even is the Lion walked in, saved the emperor in his holiday retreat, and turned out to be the reason Horus died someone would find offense in your not cool/good/badd-ass enough portrail of him.

 

In short, do not try to please the internet, you can't. We do love your work, so keep it up. Those who don't like it are free to not read it.

[WGXH]

I fully admit I have not yet read it, but it seems my fear may be a bit well founded.

 

*spoilers*

 

 

ADB is a superb writer- perhaps the best the Black Library has- but I find that the Night Lords seem to take a lot of spotlight in his work. It was a Night Lord who first said "Death to the False Emperor". It was Curze who saved Lorgar from Corax. And now it is Curze who bests the Dark Angel's Primarch in their own short story. Our primarch, who has fought evenly with Leman Russ, has been disgraced with a stomp battle from what could appear to be an Author's pet character. This is taken out of context, however- it could simply be that the Dark Angel Marines was the first to intervene, not nessecerily that Lion got goomba stomped, and that both Lion and Curze were majorly messed up by their encounter.

 

Massive story spoilers, yo.

 

 

Actually, I'd say you're seeing it from the wrong angle. Curze "saved" Lorgar from Corax, in the sense that... who else could have? Horus, Fulgrim, Angron and Mortarion weren't at that part of the battlefield. Perturabo was overseeing the shelling, and wasn't there, either. Who was left? Curze and Alpharius. And which one has the most interesting narrative impact when they save their corrupt brother and his Legion? Curze, because Curze advocates against the concept of Chaos, which Lorgar's warriors embody. Who is also often considered a dark reflection of Corax, for better or worse? Curze. Who else could lock claws with Corax, pale-guy-with-claws against pale-guy-with-claws? Curze. It's really just as simple as that. I don't have factions that I like to show more than any other, or ones that I think are "better" than any other. I just go with what feels right.

 

Curze doesn't best the Lion. It's a fight like most fights between equals; it ebbs and flows, with the advantage exchanging between each participant. The Lion starts out easily beating the hell out of Curze when it comes to weapons, but when it devolves into a brawl on the ground, Curze starts to come out on top. Then the fight is ended by a Dark Angel, before any real conclusion. Were the Night Lords smart and/or brave enough to end the fight? Nope. The Dark Angels did. A knight left his sword in a primarch's spine. That's balls of solid bronze, right there. And right at the end, it's clear that it was an equal resolution: both primarchs are equally wounded. Even the Night Lords in this story don't get the main character, Corswain. Sevatar and Sheng are held off by one Angel, and Curze gets sneak attacked a second time because he's too frothing and wounded to focus like a decent warrior would.

 

 

This really highlights one of the dangers of 40K. You write something with absolute neutrality; with no one winning; with both sides inflicting equal damage to one another; even with one side getting the advantage over a faction you usually write about, and still it's easy to see it as "This guy makes the Night Lords awesome all the time." Um. Like... when I make them cowards? When I make the Lion out to be the epitome of knightly valour and loyalty, while Curze is a suffering wretch who gets

impaled by two sneak attacks?

They got a cameo in The First Heretic, when Curze saves (and hates) the character I really like, and Sevatar is ordered to stop Corax, which he immediately fails to do. As cameos go, that's not exactly exalting them.

 

Nothing - nothing - is as disheartening as comments like this. Everyone is totally entitled to their opinions, and no one will ever see 40K quite the same way (I'm sure there'll be loads of Night Lord fans that hate me for Curze not easily beating the snot out of the Lion) and I don't take any personal offence at those kind of comments. But they're like enthusiasm poison. I can already feel myself instinctively hesitant to go near the Dark Angels again, because they'd be fighting the Night Lords. The obvious answer is that I should chill out and grow up, and be professional enough not to worry about that sort of thing. I'm working on that, but it takes time.

 

I apologize for the hurt my words have caused, ADB. and it is not my intention to make you shy away from potraying the Legion I love so dearly. When things are placed into line, from the perspective of the artist who obviously knows his work best, things are made clearer. For starters, the ironing out that Lion was loyal is something I am certain many Dark Angels fans- myself included- will laud you for, though as you admit, many Fallen players will deride that fact. Additionally, the fact that at heart, they are a knightly order goes unnoticed by many, where others see only a former legion riding on the tailcouts of Gulliman.

 

This was an immense overreaction from my part. I generally try not to get caught up in internet hysteria-, and on this occasion I was. and for that, I profusefuly apologize.

 

 

As you say, there may be Night Lords fans who were saddened Curze didn't beat the Snot out of the Lion. I, on the other hand, was saddened that in my perception, he did. Now that I know better, that it was not a one sided affair once swords were discarded, I have no basis for complaint.

 

 

I stress again, I read this completely out of context. A lot of warhammer lore, when taken out of context, can seem misleading.

A Thousand Sons is about a legion having their ass handed to them. Prospero Burns is about a Remembrancer. Horus Rising is more about the leadup to Horus Falling. When PB came out, the outcry among SW players was palpable, but the amount of information we gleamed- indeed, saw into the very soul of the chapter- was magnificent.

So please, ignore the comments of the ignorant- myself- and continue to do the work you do better than any else.

[Viray]

Curze is (would have been) one of the most brutal, un-orthodox and murderous primarchs, and unless it was a fair and balanced fight, I would not expect The Lion to come out on top (ie: the odds would be even).

 

Where The Lion is a martial knight-lord, being steeped heavily in tradition and has the willpower to meet any challenge (sometimes missing the consequences), being a superior bred warrior will only go so far against a primarch who embodies everything against order, and who attacks in an un-orthodox manner. I don't think he is spotlighting Curze in our story by making a fight even, and the comment about Russ, you have to remember that Russ is an honour bound individual, and though he would fight in a feral manner, he would still maintain some semblance from the warrior tribes of Fenris. An equal should never back down from an equal in combat. Curze would be a nightmare to fight, as he doesn't doesn't subscribe to the aforementioned and would be most dangerous in doing anything and everything to beat an enemy. Messy but brutally effective.

 

That said, still looking forward to the read.

 

I'll have to disagree with you here, brother. If the Lion is indeed the more skillful warrior, then he has the advantage. It is actually unorthodoxy that will only get you so far against a well trained, experienced fighter.

 

With that said, that does not mean that the Lion should have won; we may be presuming more than we know in believing the Lion is actually the more skillful warrior. Granted, I believe he was known to be an excellent swordsman, and his martial background as a knight does much to augment this image of him as a superior warrior, but there is more to fighting than poise. Just like the Lion, Curze spent his early years fighting, and, again like his brother, spent his later years fighting some more in the Great Crusade. It seems the only reason that the Nigh Haunter comes off as inferior to the Lion in terms of skill is because he lacks the same "publicity" for his image which, in contrast, the Lion enjoys with his association with the "knightly."

 

Remember, they're both Primarchs and war has been their craft since they were conceived in test tubes.

 

[Knight of the First Legion]

ADB

 

As the poster who started this thread i would just like to say that I think you did a great job at portrying both legions and would definately enjoy reading anything you write about them in the future.

 

As i tried to make clear in my second post on this subject i think you also showed how two perfectly even warriors in terms of stature and ability, but with different styles would fight.

 

Plus thank you again for outing the Lion as a loyalist! :)

 

KOTFL

[Candleshoes]

I'll have to disagree with you here, brother. If the Lion is indeed the more skillful warrior, then he has the advantage. It is actually unorthodoxy that will only get you so far against a well trained, experienced fighter.

 

With that said, that does not mean that the Lion should have won; we may be presuming more than we know in believing the Lion is actually the more skillful warrior. Granted, I believe he was known to be an excellent swordsman, and his martial background as a knight does much to augment this image of him as a superior warrior, but there is more to fighting than poise. Just like the Lion, Curze spent his early years fighting, and, again like his brother, spent his later years fighting some more in the Great Crusade. It seems the only reason that the Nigh Haunter comes off as inferior to the Lion in terms of skill is because he lacks the same "publicity" for his image which, in contrast, the Lion enjoys with his association with the "knightly."

 

Remember, they're both Primarchs and war has been their craft since they were conceived in test tubes.

 

 

(In terms of Curze) Fighting fair is not much incentive to fight at all, as a certain pirate captain once said.

 

That said, I agree with the spoilers the OP posted and the take ADB seems to have taken and written, in that both Primarchs will play to their strongpoints and gain an advantage when in their own element. The Lion, we all can agree, would be an excellent swordsman, raised in a feudal deathworld culture, and would bring that steely discipline and skill that his upbringing burned into him. Curze seems much more comfortable when elements of control start to slip, and his passion/fury is capable of devastation (people mention on the ground brawling).

 

2 unique primarchs will make for one intense scene. I am also really looking forward to how the Lion thinks in the 48 pages, his actions and word choices, and his outlook. I feel that this is going to be one of the best chances to see the leader of the first fleshed out in such a unique way. Also how he interacts with Curze, how he deals with a peer and brother.

 

[Azoriel]

Something I really like:

the Lion immediately suspecting Roboute Guilliman of trying to form an empire while the emperor is still alive and well speaks strongly of both his strategic mastery (thinking ahead) as well as his paranoia.

[Candleshoes]

Well spotted!

[NightrawenII]

Curze doesn't best the Lion. It's a fight like most fights between equals; it ebbs and flows, with the advantage exchanging between each participant. The Lion starts out easily beating the hell out of Curze when it comes to weapons, but when it devolves into a brawl on the ground, Curze starts to come out on top. Then the fight is ended by a Dark Angel, before any real conclusion. Were the Night Lords smart and/or brave enough to end the fight? Nope. The Dark Angels did. A knight left his sword in a primarch's spine. That's balls of solid bronze, right there. And right at the end, it's clear that it was an equal resolution: both primarchs are equally wounded. Even the Night Lords in this story don't get the main character, Corswain. Sevatar and Sheng are held off by one Angel, and Curze gets sneak attacked a second time because he's too frothing and wounded to focus like a decent warrior would.

(In terms of Curze) Fighting fair is not much incentive to fight at all, as a certain pirate captain once said.

 

That said, I agree with the spoilers the OP posted and the take ADB seems to have taken and written, in that both Primarchs will play to their strongpoints and gain an advantage when in their own element. The Lion, we all can agree, would be an excellent swordsman, raised in a feudal deathworld culture, and would bring that steely discipline and skill that his upbringing burned into him. Curze seems much more comfortable when elements of control start to slip, and his passion/fury is capable of devastation (people mention on the ground brawling).

 

Okey, I'm not saying, the Lion should curbstomp the Curze without breaking sweat, but I think that out of all Primarchs, the Lion is the worst opponent for Curze. Why? Because Lion *is* Son of the Forrest, he was not raised in the knight's household, he has grown up in chaos-infested forrest. Alone. Without weapon. Then he was adopted by knightly order and lead extermination of chaos-beasts in the said forrest. If someone knows how to slain the wild animal Curze is, then it's Lion.

 

 

Just my two pennies.

[A D-B]

This was an immense overreaction from my part. I generally try not to get caught up in internet hysteria-, and on this occasion I was. and for that, I profusefuly apologize.

 

Naw, WGXH, no need to apologise. I was in a rush, so explained it fairly badly (just got back from the airport, after flying home from London, then driving, blah blah blah), but I meant it more as a general theme of something that sucks, rather than a targeted shield against what you'd personally said. In general, it's something I tend to dwell on a lot and find demoralizing, because it's a feature in 40K writing that I sorta care deeply about. But by no means was I freaking out over what you said, so I'm sorry if it looked like I was kicking up and sand and taking my toys out of the pit (or whatever).

 

The point of 'Savage Weapons' was mostly to show how the Dark Angels really acted in the Heresy; to show slices of Caliban; to hearken to their deeply ritualised knightly roots, and their concepts of conduct and nobility - none of which I'd really seen before to my satisfaction. I also wanted to show the Lion in a way closer to how I thought he should be portrayed, truer to himself. It was a little naive of me not to realise it'd be overshadowed by the primarch fight, and even lamer not to have considered that both Night Lord and Dark Angel fans alike would have wanted a more significant, solid victory. But it was a fight at the start of a war, really. Not the defining moment of a whole crusade. And that, too, was kinda the point. It was the moment when the Thramas Crusade really heats up from then on, when the brothers first meet. Not their only fight. Just their first.

 

Either way, I think we're probably safe from me going near the Dark Angels again - as far as I know, Gav is doing that Lion novella next year, so the Legion will be back in familiar and comfortable hands.

 

Okey, I'm not saying, the Lion should curbstomp the Curze without breaking sweat, but I think that out of all Primarchs, the Lion is the worst opponent for Curze. Why? Because Lion *is* Son of the Forrest, he was not raised in the knight's household, he has grown up in chaos-infested forrest. Alone. Without weapon. Then he was adopted by knightly order and lead extermination of chaos-beasts in the said forrest. If someone knows how to slain the wild animal Curze is, then it's Lion.

 

It could be argued, though, just as easily, that Curze was the absolute epitome of everything malicious, violent and poisoned within humanity, because he grew up amongst the species, but untouched by any of its virtues. And mankind always conquers the wilderness, be it with machinery, ignorance, ingenuity or simple expansion. Humanity conquers its environment; it's a truth of the species, especially in science-fiction (Dune, anyone...), and while the Lion was feral, he merely survived, but when he was brought into a human society, only then did he conquer the wilderness as all human cultures do.

 

On the flip side, Curze was a murderer to his core; he'd be the hands around the noble knight's throat, or the dagger in the great general's back.

 

Now, I'm not saying I believe that. I don't - especially not insofar as who'd win a fight between them. But it's very, very easy to say "He should win" based on a personal interpretation of the primarch's virtues. I try to avoid that, because that level of "I see this X way" does a disservice to a setting so many people see differently. While my writing is naturally the result of how I see 40K, it's also tempered by what I think the setting should be, and how we should present it to people as professional writers.

 

But this is why I never really join in those "Which primarch is a better fighter" threads. Because the answer is always really "Whichever one has circumstantial advantage in that particular moment." They're equals, really. It's the circumstantial things like emotion, desperation, and the things happening around them that make it interesting, not just whom happens to be more generally badass than whomever else. When someone says "Angron is the best fighter", I find that leeches my interest rather than adds to it. I see Angron beating anyone if the situation is right, or losing to anyone if the situation is absolutely wrong. Hell, even Lorgar. Sure, we saw him at his lowest ebb in The First Heretic, but six months after Istvaan? He's not going to be the same guy at all.

[WGXH]

Either way, I think we're probably safe from me going near the Dark Angels again - as far as I know, Gav is doing that Lion novella next year, so the Legion will be back in familiar and comfortable hands.

 

Which is in itsself neither a good nor bad thing- Gav's been doing them forever and if anybody knows them, it's him. That being said, it's going to be a shame that you won't be potraying the Dark Angels. The Word Bearers were incredibly bland, Jehova's Witnesses to me until you breathed life into them with The First Heretic. After the poorly received 2 Dark Angel HH novels, you're just the kind of author needed for the task.

 

Or for any other misunderstood Legion. Truly, nobody can understand a character so keenly as yourself.

 

Now, I shall withdraw my tongue from your backside. Dogs do that.

 

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_yKb_lWOpUS8/SnK0daT1ROI/AAAAAAAAAII/CrjzNEx2KPE/s400/8.jpg

 

I'm not a dog, am I?