Age of Darkness - Savage Weapons

[Plastic Rat]

Just as a word of warning, it's not a full book. It's a short story in the new Horus Heresy anthology "Age of Darkness". It's still an awesome piece and the rest of the collection was very enjoyable so i'd recommend the purchase.

 

Of course you might already know this and i now look like an idiot. If so....carry on.

 

Didn't know it, but thanks. Doesn't really matter though, it's Dark Angels and written by A D-B, even if it's just a short story. The rest of the book could be made up of Twilight fan fiction, I'd still buy it.

[Pavement Artist]

The rest of the book is very good aswell so its still worth an investment. All of the stories are much more engaging as a whole than "Tales of Heresy" that i found to be a bit hit and miss. Some of the pieces are stronger than others of course and this is certainly one of the best.

 

As a Dark Angels fan you're sure to love it.

[Alex Knight]

All in all I liked the story. I liked seeing the Lion as the "Emperor's Paranoia."

 

And now we know what the Lion was waiting for. It wasn't to see who won between Horus and the Emperor, it was to see what a third player was going to do.

 

Also Night Haunter = Jason Todd as Batman. ::nods::

 

I too feel saddened that A-D-B is feeling a little hesitant to touch the Dark Angels. I think he did an excellent job with them in the few pages he had for them. I'd like to see what he could and would do if he had more pages to work with. I also agree that Gav is not familiar and comfortable hands. I hated being a loyal Dark Angel player after "Angels of Darkness" came out because suddenly, "All Dark Angels are secretly traitors!" Which was never the case before.

 

Also, where did Alajos actually encounter the Night Lord that wounded him?

 

Again. Like it. Would like to see more of the DA during the Heresy and would like to see A-D-B pen it.

[Droma]

Haven't read it yet as I don't think it's available in the states just yet. But I'll agree on the comments about Gav Thorpe. I don't think he can write space marines well, it's like they are too distant for him and it all comes off as stereotypes. The only sections of his books I like are the viewpoints from a mortal perspective as they are the only ones I can relate to. A-D-B imo writes characters that have character to them. Even Grimaldus who is about as far from humanity as can be I was able to at least see things from his perspective even if it was utterly alien to normal human sensibilities. So while I haven't read Savage weapon yet I would definitely encourage him if he got the opportunity to write something longer that involves or is about the DA.

[Lord_Edgimus]

Fantastic job ADB, after that there can be no argument over our loyalties, although maybe some debates over if we are paranoid or just seeing the game a few moves ahead of everyone else.

[Arioch]

"Warning, spoilers"

 

Read it some days ago. A great read I must say, and, in my opinion, one of the best potrayals of the 1. Legion and its primarch so far. I think the story gave a new, fresh angle to the angels and really put the knight in pre-heresy Dark Angels. A shame it was so short, I would have loved more insigth in the war with the Nigthlords, but it seems to have been mostly on the skirmish levels. The talk between Curze and the Lion was, I think, the part I enjoyed the most. Curze reminded me of some monsterversion of the joker- mad, psychotic, a man tormented by the world. I think he really wanted the Lion turned to his side, because he believed that the Emperor had abandoned them and lied to them.

 

One thing I dont quite get is Curze´s massive advantage, when he throws himself at the Lion. Sure, techniques dont do you much help there, but I dont think the Lion is "weaker" than Curze- he should have been able to free himself. On the other hand I think the Lions advantage in weapons was a little to high- sure the Lion has exellent techniques here, but Curze would have his own unique style I guess?

 

On the plusside the First Legion scored a badass paladin- nice! Hope to hear more from him in the future :wub:

And we have a confrontation coming up between the Dark Angels and the Ultramarines?

 

HELL YEARH!

[Vilicate]

It seems to me that the portrayal was fairly accurate of the fight - Lion was great with a sword in his hand, and was giving better than he got against Konrad. Cruze wasn't really a trained fighter - he's definitely a murderer though. So he went all Gollum on the Lion, which suits his "fighting style" better.

[Brother-Kezek]

It was a great story. I really love the "knightly" aspects of the Dark Angels. Only one thing confused me though:

Why did the Night Hunter turn off his lighting claws when he grabbed the Lion around the neck?

[krewl]

It seems to me that the portrayal was fairly accurate of the fight - Lion was great with a sword in his hand, and was giving better than he got against Konrad. Cruze wasn't really a trained fighter - he's definitely a murderer though. So he went all Gollum on the Lion, which suits his "fighting style" better.

Because we know Johnsons life did not end with "..and then his head went plop and rolled around on the ground...."

[DCEET]

Firstly Savage Weapons great read and I think I enjoyed every single short story in Age of Darkness. So good job Black Library!

 

Right enough butt kissing. Whilst I can see a lot of DA players are appreciative of Lion's "redemption" I think we have to remember there still has to be a justification for *half* the legion turning and Angels of Darkness gave us that. Although this has greatly been "dulled down" thanks to DoA and FA, which is a good thing as it shows the Lion in a much nicer light. But I think Angels of Darkness was a bold move and it needed that open the door. DoA, FA and now SA fill in the gaps.

 

My two pennies.

[Interrogator Stobz]

Totally agree, for with out the premise of doubt there is no need for faith.

GRIMDARK SELF HATE FTW

 

"Loyalty is it's own reward" is still a matter of perspective, it just works for me because I am a believer :lol:

 

LS

[ODM]

SPOILERS

 

I finally got a chance to finish the collection, and I must say, great reading all around. Almost every chapter got a solid appearance, and there were some neat suprises along the way. There were also a couple of questions answered definitively, no room for doubt, which is nice, and somewhat of a suprise! A couple of long running internet argument themes (the Lion on the fence, and Blood Ravens - Thousand Sons) have been answered for good, but a nice new one has opened up.

 

I thought Savage Weapons was great. Really well written, really interesting, and it actually moved the story forward as far as the Dark Angels are concerned. Great stuff.

 

My minor quibbles would be the ending of the battle on the planet. As written, there's no reason the Night Lord wouldn't have time to deliver the coup de grace over the gravely injured Dark Angel as the drop pods fall. Also, the image of two football teams pulling apart the primarchs was also a little odd to me. These guys are all armed with lethal ranged weaponry, 20 ft away from each other. They are all expert marksmen firing heavy calibur automatic weapons. Both sides would have been absolutley torn into little pieces, armor or no armor. I could see the image ADB was going for, but to me it seemed like one you could pull off before fighting started (like a sporting event - posturing and yelling) or in a medievil setting, but with deadly, futuristic ranged weapons... Anyway. minor quibble.

 

I do hope someone decides to pick up on the threads hinted at, especially as far as the Ultramarines and Dark Angels go. There's a lot of potential there.

[Azoriel]

It was a great story. I really love the "knightly" aspects of the Dark Angels. Only one thing confused me though:

Why did the Night Hunter turn off his lighting claws when he grabbed the Lion around the neck?

 

My thoughts on that:

The Night Hunter's lightning claws had seen a great deal of damage by that point in the fight; perhaps it wasn't a matter of them being turned off as them just not working anymore (which might better explain the risky desperation move). Alternatively, if the remaining blades just weren't long enough to get through the Lion's neck in one swipe, he would've needed to let go to saw his way through.

 

 

My minor quibbles would be the ending of the battle on the planet.

As written, there's no reason the Night Lord wouldn't have time to deliver the coup de grace over the gravely injured Dark Angel as the drop pods fall. Also, the image of two football teams pulling apart the primarchs was also a little odd to me. These guys are all armed with lethal ranged weaponry, 20 ft away from each other. They are all expert marksmen firing heavy calibur automatic weapons. Both sides would have been absolutley torn into little pieces, armor or no armor.

I could see the image ADB was going for, but to me it seemed like one you could pull off before fighting started (like a sporting event - posturing and yelling) or in a medievil setting, but with deadly, futuristic ranged weapons... Anyway. minor quibble.

 

I would credit that to the effectiveness of power armor vs. mass reactive bolter rounds. (I suppose they'd have other kinds of weapons on hand as well, though...)

[Plastic Rat]

Ok, freaking LOVED this story. I also got it in audio book and I've just finished listening to the audio book.

 

In short, ADB made Dark Angels cool again. He managed to portray a primarch that unlike previous depictions was larger than life, mysterious, haunted and just <please don't warn me like last time, no expletive even intended here> COOL! The DA themselves aren't the bumbling Monty Python escapees I've seen in a certain previous book that shall not be mentioned, they're cool. He even manages to keep them cool while getting the uhm... stuffing?... knocked out of them. Alongside this, I'm a huge fan of his Night Lords books and he manages to keep the Nightlords awesome as well, though a lot less likeable than in the other books. You really see them for the villains they are in this. Though honestly, I saw them as simply using taunts and rivalries in order to gain a tactical advantage, it might never have actually been anything personal.

 

All in all, best DA fiction written. That's also in my very not so humble opinion.

 

I have one question. The Lion's final words, were those in reference to Luthor?

[Legatus]

And we have a confrontation coming up between the Dark Angels and the Ultramarines?

 

HELL YEARH!

I do hope someone decides to pick up on the threads hinted at, especially as far as the Ultramarines and Dark Angels go. There's a lot of potential there.

I think you may be disappointed. That is, if you expect the Lion to stand up to Guilliman and tell him "not like that, pal". The Dark Angels post heresy are very Codex adherent, and they have been described as being organised into Chapters in some of the HH books. Jonson himself was a very strategically minded Primarch, like Dorn, Horus or Guilliman, so it is likely they would have seen eye to eye on a lot of issues. It is reasonable to assume that, if Guilliman had already attempted to share his doctrines with other Legions as some Index Astartes articles suggested, then the Lion would have seen the merrits in them. People often think that Guilliman suddenly presented his Codex organisation at the end of the Scouring and then expected everyone to reorganise according to these doctrines. But some sources describe how those doctrines had naturally permeated to the other Legions while fighting alongside the Ultramarines during the scouring, and other sources describe how Guilliman was sharing his insights with other Primarch even during the Crusade. It is reasonable to assume that the overall organisation of the Dark Angels was already very similar to that of the Ultramarines, and IIRC the Dark Angels are described as having Chapters of ten companies of a hundred in a few places.

So it is far more likely that when Jonson and Guilliman meet, Guilliman explains his plan and both Legions then set course to Terra, the Dark Angels meeting up with the Space Wolves in the way.

 

But who knows, perhaps the author might feel that Jonson disagreeing with Guilliman would make for a more engaging story...

[Droma]

@ Legatus If he would've had a problem with it then it would've been the how to fight a battle for dummies part and not the organization part.

 

I recently got a chance to read it and I love the portrayal of the way the DA acted. Their traditions, the subtle way knightly was worked into a legion. I hope to see this expanded on as we don't really see it in the other DA HH books. I also liked the fight between both primarchs and the difference in their fighting styles. Overall this is by far my favorite DA story and I hope ADB gets an opportunity to write a full novel(HH or 40k) at some point in the future.

[Captain Semper]

Either way, I think we're probably safe from me going near the Dark Angels again - as far as I know, Gav is doing that Lion novella next year, so the Legion will be back in familiar and comfortable hands.

 

Needless to say my guilt-o-meter has gone through the roof...

[Legatus]

@ Legatus If he would've had a problem with it then it would've been the how to fight a battle for dummies part and not the organization part.

Back in the ol' "Armies of the Imperium" (Epic Space Marine) Lion El'Jonson and Leman Russ were both mentioned as among the "brilliant minds who offered sagely advice" in the Codex Astartes. But back then the Codex Astartes was presented more as a basic education for Imperial Guard officiers, not the all encompassing treatise on all things Space Marines it had become in 2nd Edition.

[Arioch]

And we have a confrontation coming up between the Dark Angels and the Ultramarines?

 

HELL YEARH!

I do hope someone decides to pick up on the threads hinted at, especially as far as the Ultramarines and Dark Angels go. There's a lot of potential there.

I think you may be disappointed. That is, if you expect the Lion to stand up to Guilliman and tell him "not like that, pal". The Dark Angels post heresy are very Codex adherent, and they have been described as being organised into Chapters in some of the HH books. Jonson himself was a very strategically minded Primarch, like Dorn, Horus or Guilliman, so it is likely they would have seen eye to eye on a lot of issues. It is reasonable to assume that, if Guilliman had already attempted to share his doctrines with other Legions as some Index Astartes articles suggested, then the Lion would have seen the merrits in them. People often think that Guilliman suddenly presented his Codex organisation at the end of the Scouring and then expected everyone to reorganise according to these doctrines. But some sources describe how those doctrines had naturally permeated to the other Legions while fighting alongside the Ultramarines during the scouring, and other sources describe how Guilliman was sharing his insights with other Primarch even during the Crusade. It is reasonable to assume that the overall organisation of the Dark Angels was already very similar to that of the Ultramarines, and IIRC the Dark Angels are described as having Chapters of ten companies of a hundred in a few places.

So it is far more likely that when Jonson and Guilliman meet, Guilliman explains his plan and both Legions then set course to Terra, the Dark Angels meeting up with the Space Wolves in the way.

 

But who knows, perhaps the author might feel that Jonson disagreeing with Guilliman would make for a more engaging story...

 

Thats not exactly what I pictured. The Lion is now suspicious that Guilliman wants to make himself the heir to the Imperium. He is quite wrong in his accusation against Guilliman of course, but this will cause some problems with the two legions. The Lion obviously believe that the next heir to the title of warmaster should be him, so perhabs he view it as a rivalry of some sort. Its not entirely clear if he belive Guilliman wants to ursurp the throne, or go for the title of warmaster. The first thing is treason, the second and annoyance for Jonson. It really comes down to how paranoid he is, but I guess, in times like these he trusts no one, and neither do Guilliman, as we could see in "Rules of engagement" were his troops are training against Salamanders. Well perhabs a few can be trusted, like Dorn, Russ and Sanguinius, but thats speculation as well.

 

As far as we know, the Dark Angels follow the Codex Astartes, with the exeption of 2 companies (though Im sure the next DA codex will see them move farther away from it, like the BA have done, despite what Ward wrote about them). But I think its important to mention that the Lion was gone when Guilliman decided to split the Legions. I cannot believe that Jonson would have agreed to split up his own legion, he was to paranoid, and doing this would be to accept the supremacy of Guilliman. The Lion would never do this, and neither would Russ. Dorn was also against it but was "persuaded" by the guns of the Ultramarines. The Imperium was really close to a civil war, but even though Dorn obeyed after the Iron Cage incident, he created the Templars (secretly? Their size doesnt seem legal?) which basicly is the true ghost of the old Imperial Fist Legion. That the Dark Angels apparently follows the codex today is because it was forced upon them, after having lost their Primarch and a good part of their Legion on Caliban, not because they agreed with the Ultramarines primarch. Thats how I see it anyway.

 

The new portrayal of the Codex Astartes seems to suggest that Guilliman writtes the entire thing himself, but I guess there would still be inputs from other primarchs as well. Its just not entirely clear if this is the case, and a lot of the old fluff seems to undergo certain changes in the HH series.

 

Im not sure what will happen between the Lion And Guilliman. Maybe they will have a terrible argument, the Lion proclaiming Guilliman a traitor, until other things are revealed. Maybe the two primarchs will hug and sit on the fence together and drink wine, while the rest of the imperium burns. Or maybe the Lion is angered by Guilliman and his strategy, going his own ways, run headlong into the warp where he meets the spacewolfs. Random buttkicking takes place. While the Lion and the Wolf fights their way through random traitorplanets, Guilliman takes a shortcut and arrives at Terra at the same time as the others, his legion almost unscattered. I could imagine something like that.

[Captain Semper]

Thats not exactly what I pictured. The Lion is now suspicious that Guilliman wants to make himself the heir to the Imperium. He is quite wrong in his accusation against Guilliman of course, but this will cause some problems with the two legions. The Lion obviously believe that the next heir to the title of warmaster should be him, so perhabs he view it as a rivalry of some sort. Its not entirely clear if he belive Guilliman wants to ursurp the throne, or go for the title of warmaster. The first thing is treason, the second and annoyance for Jonson. It really comes down to how paranoid he is, but I guess, in times like these he trusts no one, and neither do Guilliman, as we could see in "Rules of engagement" were his troops are training against Salamanders. Well perhabs a few can be trusted, like Dorn, Russ and Sanguinius, but thats speculation as well.

 

Or Perturabo? Why not - he seems like a decent chap... The fact that Horus and some other Primarchs have already rebelled is their problem. Surely Perturabo is not as bad - oh go on, I'll give him the battle winning hardware. Maybe he'll vote for me no? But this guy Guilliman - I thnik he's up to something - I don't trust him and I should know! I'm the master strategist after all!!!

 

Kidding aside you are absolutely right! Noone is to be trusted during the Heresy until he proves beyond doubt which side he fights for [THAT IS WHY I DO NOT LIKE THE ENDING OF FALLEN ANGELS]. And I like the the fact that the Lion is being paranoid and distrustful of Guilliman. Until (hopefully) he is convinced he is not the enemy. And some rivalry for the top job is also welcome as far as I'm concerned.

 

As far as we know, the Dark Angels follow the Codex Astartes, with the exeption of 2 companies (though Im sure the next DA codex will see them move farther away from it, like the BA have done, despite what Ward wrote about them). But I think its important to mention that the Lion was gone when Guilliman decided to split the Legions. I cannot believe that Jonson would have agreed to split up his own legion, he was to paranoid, and doing this would be to accept the supremacy of Guilliman. The Lion would never do this, and neither would Russ. Dorn was also against it but was "persuaded" by the guns of the Ultramarines. The Imperium was really close to a civil war, but even though Dorn obeyed after the Iron Cage incident, he created the Templars (secretly? Their size doesnt seem legal?) which basicly is the true ghost of the old Imperial Fist Legion. That the Dark Angels apparently follows the codex today is because it was forced upon them, after having lost their Primarch and a good part of their Legion on Caliban, not because they agreed with the Ultramarines primarch. Thats how I see it anyway.

 

Could very well be the case. Or it could be that the Lion agreed (reluctantly or wholeheartedly doesn't really matter). The (slight) deviation in the Chapter structure was done after the Lion was gone (i.e. have the fisrt 2 companies kind of dedicated to hunt the fallen). Also the "secret legion" aspect was also created after the Lion was gone. So it is conceivable that the Lion agreed on the Codex Astartes structure and told his guys on the way to Caliban. After the events the new leadership decided that other priorities take precedence and work out a clandestine organization that looks one thing but is another. Mainting the "Codex" facade is as important to DA backgroud as the fact that they do not maintain it in practice...

 

EDIT: If it weren't for the Fallen the DAs would (most probably) have gone the Imperial Fists way - a very, very Codex compliant Legion...

 

The new portrayal of the Codex Astartes seems to suggest that Guilliman writtes the entire thing himself, but I guess there would still be inputs from other primarchs as well. Its just not entirely clear if this is the case, and a lot of the old fluff seems to undergo certain changes in the HH series.

 

That's true. Sad but true. (that old fluff changes that is...)

 

Im not sure what will happen between the Lion And Guilliman. Maybe they will have a terrible argument, the Lion proclaiming Guilliman a traitor, until other things are revealed. Maybe the two primarchs will hug and sit on the fence together and drink wine, while the rest of the imperium burns. Or maybe the Lion is angered by Guilliman and his strategy, going his own ways, run headlong into the warp where he meets the spacewolfs. Random buttkicking takes place. While the Lion and the Wolf fights their way through random traitorplanets, Guilliman takes a shortcut and arrives at Terra at the same time as the others, his legion almost unscattered. I could imagine something like that.

 

You are right again! The possibilities of evolving the fluff between the Lion and Guilliman are immense! Really liked the ending in the "Savage Weapons" that opens a Pandora's box of plot lines to explore!

[Brother Degas]

Just finished the book and need to catch up on the thread, but its a very cool way to end a book.

 

I would just like to say that the whole issue of DA codex compliance is a bit meh to me. In the ultramarines story they follow the book by heart and its clear that this is a flaw because it takes away the whole thinking thing from the space marine.

 

To my mind the DA are far more flexible and intuative when it comes to tactics and the art of war. They would take what they agreed with and dispensed with what they didnt, I think the codex astartes is just one of many books on war the DA have studied.

 

I cant see them adhereing to the orders to break up the legion either, these guys had just been through the fall so would (could) have viewed the order as a sign that terra was weak and open to taint. Only the surviving DA were guranteed to be loyal...maybe...so they agreed to appear compliant but really arent and do thier own thing.

 

Finally, I cant recall any other book where a marine is cheeky to a primarch or actually saves his primarchs life (but could be wrong) this could be an intresting avenue to explore too alongside the gulliman thing, e.g. how the lion doesnt see himself as so different to his marines: knight first, primach second, as per ADB's post ages ago...

 

Id also like to see the story developed so that the lion wasnt as ambtious or vying with his brothers to be heir to the emperor. I.e. During his time alone on caliban and in the order they focused his attention on survival and protecting the weak rather than running an empire so he has no intrest in being anything other than a soilder/defender/knight.

[le_tiss]

Arise my pretty arise ;)

 

Well what do you know, I have read all the HH books but not the short story ones, then I hear about Savage Weapons by ADB :wub: a BL writer that entertains me with his style, pacing and emotional growth of characters/story (like Abnett - he knows how to grab you and immerse you into a character/storyline)

 

So off I run to read it:

 

IMO

 

Best version of the DA and the Lion - exactly how I imagine him / them :tu:

 

Excellent short story with plot hooks/lines for the future aplenty

 

Please write more DA stuff ADB please, though I like Gav and AoD! the love the DA get from novels and you might even say rulebooks from GW is not great. It's a fantastic backstory (fluff) but we never seem to get anyone who enjoys / wants to write about us.

 

TFH and the night lords novels are are excellent IMO - keep going

[Marshal Rohr]

Maybe the Lion went back to Caliban to collect his Legion to full strength so he could challenge Guilliman's claim to the throne! Maybe thats one of the reasons why he split them in the first place, so he'd have a nice reserve unscathed by the heresy.

 

Conspiracies HOOOOOO!!!!

[Dinks]

Maybe the Lion went back to Caliban to collect his Legion to full strength so he could challenge Guilliman's claim to the throne! Maybe thats one of the reasons why he split them in the first place, so he'd have a nice reserve unscathed by the heresy.

More or less how i saw it. :P

[shabbadoo]

One thing I dont quite get is Curze´s massive advantage, when he throws himself at the Lion. Sure, techniques dont do you much help there, but I dont think the Lion is "weaker" than Curze- he should have been able to free himself. On the other hand I think the Lions advantage in weapons was a little to high- sure the Lion has exellent techniques here, but Curze would have his own unique style I guess?

I rationalize it as Curze being a badarse Primarch, AND having Chaos Gifts on top of that. Lion is "just" a Primarch in comparison.