GK Stats/Weapons Vs Point Value

[maligncomedy]

Just a few thoughts from an old GK player before I left them with 4th/5th edition. They have been rather pigeon holed in my opinion. In that, they seem emphasized for melee. I always used to play them as a long range army. Relying on max range of psycannons and the shrouding to protect me. With the loss of that, they are now roughly as durable as a standard marine in ranged combat. Furthermore, about the army in general, an initial looks says expect this to me:

 

1 Daemonhammer to every 5 Marines

1-2 Halberds to every 5 Marines

Justicar will probably Mastercraft

Expect 1-2 psycannons. Incinerators will be avoided for the most part, and psilencers < psycannons.

Stave will be avoided. Falchions possible, but unlikely.

 

I imagine that termies may be used every now and then, depending on the army theme. Probably more Henchmen squads or Strike Squad lists though. Unsure bout interceptor squads yet.

 

As far as vehicles/walkers etc. go, extra armor will probably be avoided, expect:

 

Psyriflemen dreads

bare-bones rhinos

Chimeras (if inquisition)

dreadknights are possible but vastly outstripped by the psyrifleman

 

expect assassins (probably Vindicare the most), possibly Purifiers (especially with Crowe....he makes them viable due to his low points cost and their relatively small increase in price for what they bring), possibly paladins but not as much as I would think purifiers (although these guys will probably have a large amount of weapon groups for nob-biker effect).

 

HQ wise I imagine either Coteaz/Crowe or librarian being most common. GM/Draigo (if termi/draigowing)/Brother Captain next.

 

 

 

judging by that, you are going to probably want a quick way or two to destroy the riflemen (scouts/speeder?) and battle via range. Long Fangs should work great here along with razorbacks. GK lists competitively will probably focus on rushing/mid range. Bring a rune priest. It'll wreck their powers, and you do have Jaws/Living Lightning to screw them over with. Preferably the second. As natural always rely on grey hunters. I'd say avoid adding the WG squad leader though. Go for second special weapon/banner.

 

just my two cents.

[DeathKorpsman]

Just a few thoughts from an old GK player before I left them with 4th/5th edition. They have been rather pigeon holed in my opinion. In that, they seem emphasized for melee. I always used to play them as a long range army. Relying on max range of psycannons and the shrouding to protect me. With the loss of that, they are now roughly as durable as a standard marine in ranged combat. Furthermore, about the army in general, an initial looks says expect this to me:

 

1 Daemonhammer to every 5 Marines

1-2 Halberds to every 5 Marines

Justicar will probably Mastercraft

Expect 1-2 psycannons. Incinerators will be avoided for the most part, and psilencers < psycannons.

Stave will be avoided. Falchions possible, but unlikely.

 

I imagine that termies may be used every now and then, depending on the army theme. Probably more Henchmen squads or Strike Squad lists though. Unsure bout interceptor squads yet.

 

As far as vehicles/walkers etc. go, extra armor will probably be avoided, expect:

 

Psyriflemen dreads

bare-bones rhinos

Chimeras (if inquisition)

dreadknights are possible but vastly outstripped by the psyrifleman

 

expect assassins (probably Vindicare the most), possibly Purifiers (especially with Crowe....he makes them viable due to his low points cost and their relatively small increase in price for what they bring), possibly paladins but not as much as I would think purifiers (although these guys will probably have a large amount of weapon groups for nob-biker effect).

 

HQ wise I imagine either Coteaz/Crowe or librarian being most common. GM/Draigo (if termi/draigowing)/Brother Captain next.

 

 

 

judging by that, you are going to probably want a quick way or two to destroy the riflemen (scouts/speeder?) and battle via range. Long Fangs should work great here along with razorbacks. GK lists competitively will probably focus on rushing/mid range. Bring a rune priest. It'll wreck their powers, and you do have Jaws/Living Lightning to screw them over with. Preferably the second. As natural always rely on grey hunters. I'd say avoid adding the WG squad leader though. Go for second special weapon/banner.

 

just my two cents.

 

This synopsis is pretty accurate, at least in the long term. I think in the near term I'm seeing a lot of lists which include some things that may in the future turn out to be less viable units, ex: Paladins, NDK's. So while the codex is still new and shiny you should anticipate seeing these types of units in 1500pt games and up. Smaller games will likely focus on power armor guys, with maybe a squad of standard GK TDA's as an HQ bodyguard or objective taker.

 

Daemonhammers are probably going to be present in any unit kitted out for CC, but expect one per unit instead of 1 per 5. If your opponent is playing an all comers list, it might end up being 1 per 5 if he expects to combat squad a lot, but with the utility of most DK squads being able to DS I doubt combat squadding will be quite as common as other chapters.

 

Canny players are going to play with mostly stock Justicars, with a few cheap upgrades to make them useful. Reason for this is the plethora of psychic tests that GK squads can (and probably will) take throughout the game and the Justicar gets to eat PotW until it kills him, which will likely be fast.

 

I wouldn't write off Incinerators, because they are usually the cheapest squad upgrade (sometimes free), and are quite deadly against even high T units (and any light vehicles that might be nearby). Psilencers are mostly an oddity that I wouldn't expect to see much, though some might try the Purgator spam where they can dish out 26 S4 shots at units out of LOS for less than 150pts. It isn't as effective against MEQ, but against certain opponents that is awful enough to consider squeezing into a list (possibly in an inquisitor Chimera borrowed from another squad so they can camp the middle of the board and all fire out of it).

 

NDK's are, well, I'm not quite sure yet other than a points sink. They definitely have a psychological impact on some opponents, but without the awfully expensive upgrades they are really too slow and vulnerable to amount to much. A few plasma shots their way and poof, goodbye NDK. Dreads on the other hand, are a cheap and brutally effective anti-transport addition to the GK army that can sit back and pound people at range. Expect to see these often.

 

Agreed that Vindicaire is probably the best assassin choice at the moment, though Callidus and Eversor are still nice for certain roles. They all went up in price though, so having more than one is a bit of a stretch in an already low body count armylist.

 

GK librarians are probably the best non-named HQ that GK's have for the points and utility. They aren't particularly fighty, but they make any nearby GK units far killier in CC. A rune priest is a good counter, but I'd recommend keeping him in a transport if a Vindicaire is present (I think the reason is obvious). All the GK HQ's are also capable of carrying a variety of grenades, some of which are fairly standard and some are quite frightening. A GM with Rad grenades charges your GH's (because you decided to rapid fire), now all his attacks are wounding on 2's (if Hammerhand is up) and you are crying over all your dead wolves because his halberds killed you before you could strike back.

 

For named characters I also agree that Coteaz and Crowe will probably be the most common, due to their opening up of more choices in the force org chart for really solid elite units. Draigo will probably be a rarity, since he is crazy expensive for not much of a return outside of CC, though he is brutal to fight against. The two named inquisitors are uniformly meh, so don't expect to see them regularly. Mordrak might be a common character, due to his special deployment rule and ability to spawn 'free' termies when he takes wounds. He's also not an IC, so can't be picked out in combat which is a huge plus. Stern, sadly, is about as lackluster as he was in the last codex and will probably be a regular proxy as something else. Too bad really, his backstory is quite good.

 

As an overall strategy, expect GK's to fight from the center of the board if they can, because that is where they are strongest due to the range limitations of their best ranged weapons. DS'ing units may decide to plop themselves center table and then castle to take advantage of any cover available and consolidate their limited number of troops. On the charge, GK's are pretty killy against MEQ or horde, with great counters against both. If you can charge them, I'd recommend you do to minimize the amount of damage they can do. Those extra attacks will really add up quickly and since nearly all GK ranged weapons are assault weapons they have the ability to really wreck a unit on the charge. ML Long fangs will be great, as they always are, for popping open transports early and then mopping up PA squads at their leisure.

[MalachiOfRuss]

Articles on blogs are starting to pop up all over that GK's aren't nearly as killy in CC as they were anticipated to be, especially the basic troops. Perhaps counter-intuitively, Wolves will want to charge that unit with halberds, on the charge we guarantee that extra attack (rather than possibly failing the Ld test), plus you don't have to stand pat in the face of a bunch of Storm Bolter shots, and you deny the GK the extra attack. A 10-man GK squad with Halberds will kill 2-3 GH, on average, a 10-man GH pack on the charge gets triple the attacks that the GK's do. Because we cannot make saves against their wounds, the critical factor will be denying them as many attacks as possible.

[Chapter Master Ignis Domus]

However, it means we lose the chance to unleash AP 2 death, as they have to be within rapid fire range to charge. I'll stick with the stand and shoot tactic.

[Godhead]

Nah, Id still rather pop them with my meltas and charge them. I'll get more than 3 times the amount of attacks with greyhunters. It's the same principle as fighting bloodletters or even genestealers, sometimes you know someone is getting charged and i'd rather deny them their extra attacks. If I charged a 10 man squad of gks with a 9 man gh pack with pack leader, those gks will have 9 power weapon attacks and 2 hammers vs 27 attacks (or more if MOTW is included) and then 3 fist attacks from the pack leader. This is completely ignoring shooting prior to the assault.

[Chapter Master Ignis Domus]

Well, yes, it's better to charge with meltas, but most of my squads use plasma.

[Freman Bloodglaive]

My preferred pack is 7 with melta, plasma pistol, mark and totem, with a Wolf Guard with combi melta and power fist, in a Rhino. That's a whopping 228 points. I can run four squads of those in 1500 points, plus Njal, plus two squads of long fangs with twin las/triple rockets. Grey Knights? We don't need no stinking Grey Knights.

[Marshal Wilhelm]

:D

 

Wall of text blocked TLoS. I couldn't see your point, it remained out of sight.

;)

[DeathKorpsman]

:D

 

Wall of text blocked TLoS. I couldn't see your point, it remained out of sight.

;)

 

I will endeavor to more thoroughly utilize the wonders of paragraph spacing so you can read my posts. I didn't realize it was such an issue.

 

Melta packs of GH's really seems like the way to go against GK, since you can still get a charge in which really makes a difference. Denying GK's those extra PW attacks is huge.

[Freman Bloodglaive]

Nothing denies a power weapon attack like killing the wielder with a strength 8, AP1 shot to the face.

[Grey Mage]

Well and if you find that Paladins are common in your area the instant death factor of a Meltagun will be more valuable than the extra shots of a Plasmagun.

[Fred Johnson the 3rd jr]

:)

 

Wall of text blocked TLoS. I couldn't see your point, it remained out of sight.

^_^

 

I will endeavor to more thoroughly utilize the wonders of paragraph spacing so you can read my posts. I didn't realize it was such an issue.

 

Not trying to pile on here, but I stopped reading your post because that first paragraph was so ridiculously massive.

[Chapter Master Ignis Domus]

Well and if you find that Paladins are common in your area the instant death factor of a Meltagun will be more valuable than the extra shots of a Plasmagun.

 

Especially with only a 5++ outside of close combat. For once, I think this is one of the few well-balanced dexes that have been released. My applause to GW.

[DeathKorpsman]

:confused:

 

Wall of text blocked TLoS. I couldn't see your point, it remained out of sight.

:)

 

I will endeavor to more thoroughly utilize the wonders of paragraph spacing so you can read my posts. I didn't realize it was such an issue.

 

Not trying to pile on here, but I stopped reading your post because that first paragraph was so ridiculously massive.

 

You managed to pile on anyway. Out of guilt for writing an overly long paragraph of text right alongside a small easy to read paragraph of text I went through the trouble of amending my post. I've found that, after adding paragraph breaks, my entire analysis reads like the screaming of five monkeys barreling down the road on a chariot pulled by an English professor.

 

I have learned the error of my ways, I hope.

 

Still think Meltas and charging is the way to go, for the record. If anything comes out of my synopsis for SW's, it pretty much boils down to that.

[dswanick]

Still think Meltas and charging is the way to go, for the record. If anything comes out of my synopsis for SW's, it pretty much boils down to that.

Not to sound overly obvious, but isn't meltas + charging pretty much the standard recipe for success anyway... ^_^

[DeathKorpsman]

Still think Meltas and charging is the way to go, for the record. If anything comes out of my synopsis for SW's, it pretty much boils down to that.

Not to sound overly obvious, but isn't meltas + charging pretty much the standard recipe for success anyway... :woot:

 

Not necessarily. Bolter + Plasma rapid fire was also quite popular. There are some that still think this is the way to go, but I caution that route unless you are sure you can get almost all the GK's you are gunning for in one shooting phase. If you can't, they will mess up your squad pretty badly on the charge. Melta+charge is a much safer option. Fewer kills from shooting, but far fewer kills during the ensuing assault. That was where I was going with it.