Mephy or Sanguinor

[Mr.darkness]

I am looking to buy another special character and have narrowed it down to meph or sanguinor.

Which one do you play more often?

Better value for points?

Just cooler?

I basically want to know your opinions on the two characters and which one is better.

I can post my army list of you want so ask if you think it will help.

[Zagman]

I prefer to run Mephiston. Though, I enjoy running librarians, usually run him with two Wings/Might Lib Furiosos.

 

There is just something about a librarian that can tear apart Dreadknougths, MCs, and LRs with his bare hands.... and fly.

[calgaryBA]

I've ran Mephiston quite a few times, and found that a lot of armies have an answer for him. He needs to be played very carfully, or else it's a total waste of points. The payout for the proper use of him though is immense.

 

Just recently I started playing with the Sanguinor, and i'm in love. There is no easy way to deal with him, having a 2+3++ save, almost always near a priest, and easy to hide behind armor, providing his buff to all troops, and ready to pounce. IMO, he's the biggest, baddest CC unit in the game, and took down a Swarm Lord + guards for me a couple games ago. The buff he gives to one of your sergeants is also one hell of a bonus, especially if the sergeant is near for the +1 attack aura as well. 5 PF attacks on the charge for that bugger. Absolutely devastating from one model, and an extra wound.

 

Depending on your meta though, you still might have to use a librarian as well for psychic defense, bringing your total HQ costs to at least 375 points.

 

You could also go about making a list that uses both Sanguinor + Mephiston. I've done this for my last 3 games and I've had an absolute blast! They hide behind boosting rhinos, with a termie deathstar unit in a stormraven. Not many lists have any kind of answer for THREE nigh unstoppable CC death machines that make combat on turn 2.

 

If you're limited to just one though, my recommendation would be the Sanguinor.

[Mykra]

I am looking to buy another special character and have narrowed it down to meph or sanguinor.

Which one do you play more often?

Better value for points?

Just cooler?

I basically want to know your opinions on the two characters and which one is better.

I can post my army list of you want so ask if you think it will help.

 

Meph is the stronger single character, Sanguinor increases the potency of your army in two strong ways (+ Attack aura, promoting one Sgt to a Mini-Captain for Free).

 

I use Sanguinor constantly and hardly - if ever - use Meph, but that's just because I like to include characters and specials that effect the whole army, like Sang, or Dante changing the Troops around a bit, or Chappy's with re-rolls, ect, ect..but that's just personal play-style.

[Brother-Captain Lucius]

All depends on your list really.

 

Meph for Raven/Mech builds and the Sanguinor for DoA lists i think.

[Eorek]

Mephiston ... He can assault 90% of the stuff in game, have incredible survivability if you play him right. Also he provides one hell of a fear factor in your army... and the psychic hood ain't bad either

 

Sanguinor Just dies when stuff shoots at him... He's not good enough to lack the independat character rule(3 wounds t4... I mean c'mon)... Also he's more expensive than mephiston, He's got the same chance at penetrating armour 10 as mephiston does armour 14 (with successfull psychic power ofc), he can't instant kill stuff...

 

mephiston anyday... except the day I'm making a sanguinary guard themed army.

[calgaryBA]

Mephiston ... He can assault 90% of the stuff in game, have incredible survivability if you play him right. Also he provides one hell of a fear factor in your army... and the psychic hood ain't bad either

 

Sanguinor Just dies when stuff shoots at him... He's not good enough to lack the independat character rule(3 wounds t4... I mean c'mon)... Also he's more expensive than mephiston, He's got the same chance at penetrating armour 10 as mephiston does armour 14 (with successfull psychic power ofc), he can't instant kill stuff...

 

mephiston anyday... except the day I'm making a sanguinary guard themed army.

 

Sanguinor can assault far deadlier things than Mephiston, and Meph dies even easier to shooting, and is gimped by anti-psycher units.

 

3 Wounds that have a 3+ invul save vs 5 wounds with no invul save... No comparison on what's better. Not even close.

 

Reroll ALL hits AND wounds, every round of combat vs your opponents big bad HQ, with a reroll to hit on everything else. On top of all his other special rules that make the rest of your army better.

 

The only thing mephiston does better is kill armor...if he can get powers off.

[Zagman]

Mephiston ... He can assault 90% of the stuff in game, have incredible survivability if you play him right. Also he provides one hell of a fear factor in your army... and the psychic hood ain't bad either

 

Sanguinor Just dies when stuff shoots at him... He's not good enough to lack the independat character rule(3 wounds t4... I mean c'mon)... Also he's more expensive than mephiston, He's got the same chance at penetrating armour 10 as mephiston does armour 14 (with successfull psychic power ofc), he can't instant kill stuff...

 

mephiston anyday... except the day I'm making a sanguinary guard themed army.

 

Sanguinor can assault far deadlier things than Mephiston, dies even easier to shooting, and is gimped by anti-psycher units.

 

3 Wounds that have a 3+ invul save vs 5 wounds with no invul save... No comparison on what's better. Not even close.

 

Reroll ALL hits AND wounds, every round of combat vs your opponents big bad HQ, with a reroll to hit on everything else. On top of all his other special rules that make the rest of your army better.

 

The only thing mephiston does better is kill armor...if he can get powers off.

 

This is a horrible comparison.

 

It takes 54 BS4 S4 attacks to kill the Sanguinor and 270 BS4 S4 attacks to Kill Mephiston. Hows that for no comparison.

 

I can give Mephiston cover, but cannot improve the T4 Sanguinor's saves versus small arms fire. Extreme vulnerability.

[calgaryBA]

This is a horrible comparison.

 

It takes 54 BS4 S4 attacks to kill the Sanguinor and 270 BS4 S4 attacks to Kill Mephiston. Hows that for no comparison.

 

I can give Mephiston cover, but cannot improve the T4 Sanguinor's saves versus small arms fire. Extreme vulnerability.

 

That's nice and all, but realistically nobody is going to use small arms fire on meph anyways, unless there's literally nothing else to shoot at, or the squad is going to use special/heavy weapons on him too, in which case, he'll likely lose some wounds. It takes....5 ap1 hits to kill meph. 5 power weapon wounds, 5 MC wounds, you name it. He's not hard to kill.

 

Both odds take a staggering amount of fire power using small arms fire... but it's small arms fire, who cares, look at EVERYTHING ELSE. It takes a hell of a lot more to kill the Sanguinor, and yet another wound to kill the buffed up sarge.

 

Why don't you throw some math around for everything else?

 

EDIT: I've used them both many times, and currently use them in the same list. I can tell you flat out, I have to put a lot more effort into keeping meph alive.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Sanguinor is immune to JAWS.

 

G :)

[*Riken*]

Why bother picking one or the other, take both! Ive done this once in a less then friendly game against a CSM player who likes to argue everything and just tries everything to win and makes the game unenjoyable to play, but these two and 10 DC with thunder hammer and jump pack and Lemartes smashing into a wall of chaos with Sanguinor in the middle giving both DC and Meph an extra attack it was glorious to see them chew through over half his army. How ever using this combo will not earn you many friends and you will hear many cries of cheese. Yes I know its a boat load of points to spend on 13 models but that game alone justified the unit cost.

 

From a practical point of view though. I have found using both of these characters in many different games versus many different opponents that more often then not Mephiston is the more useful of the two characters. Lots of points have already been brought about there survivability when in all honesty both die just as quickly when used improperly (Yes it is possible to use something as basic as the sledge hammer that is Mephiston wrong), they are both super high threat targets that can cause massive amounts of damage if left unchecked and are normally targeted fairly on in the game.

 

Why I prefer Mephy to Sang, 1) his 25 points less and I can use that for a Power fist somewhere or any other nice upgrade. and 2) I find him a lot of versatile his hood will help shut down powers, the fact that he can turn most ICs / MCs / Walkers / Average squads to dust in a single turn and often before they can strike back. He actually causes fear, more then once I have had my opponent completely change his deployment strategy to avoid Mehpy entirely and place a lot of his stuff into fire lanes or less then ideal spots.

 

While Sanguinor can do a lot of that and doesn't need to worry about getting shut down via psychic hoods he still doesn't do any of it as well, sure then + attack bubble is nice but you can use both HG and SG to get that as well. And the buffed up sergeant is nice as well but even then I still find Him + Sanguinor less useful over all.

 

Anyways thats just my 2 cents on the matter

-Riken

[Black Memories]

Sanguinor can be a tough SOB vs some targets, absorb a lot of anti-tank fire, and stand toe-to-toe with the toughest enemies around in 1v1. The problem is normal jimmies and joes can obliterate him. He's also not nearly as effective against the second big-monster-of-death that he faces as he is the first. If you managed to kill a swarmlord with hive guards then your opponent rolled awful and you had majestically good saving rolls. That's a lot of 3+ saves to make. Mephiston is an absolute powerhouse against vehicles (despite being vulnerable) and non-space marine infantry is a joke. Can he lose assaults? Yes, he can. However it's extremely unlikely. Part of "using mephiston correctly" isn't just hiding him well, it's throw him at the things he will dominate.

 

As far as finding armies that "have an answer" for mephiston, I can name only a select few that fit that bill. I don't consider massed anti-tank firepower as an "answer" for mephiston, simply because nearly every army has access to that, and it's extremely easy to run mephiston into the safety of close combat to hide from the weapons, or behind a rhino or av13 vehicle of some sort (or just sit him in a raven). The only army I've ever felt that mephiston really suffered against was against an Eldar army. I think sanguinor is definitely superior against eldar, but that's really about all i'd swap them against. For the record the difference between letting sanguinor run around with a 3++ and facing anti-tank fire with 3 wounds and mephiston doing it with a 4++ from cover (assuming you dont vehicle-hide him) with 5 wounds is probably damn near equal. Their vulnerability vs small arms fire....that's where mephiston becomes insane. Also with I7, mephiston really doesn't have a big issue taking down a targets before they can strike back unless they somehow neutralize his I. As stated before his effectiveness vs vehicles is also overwhelming once he gets into them.

[Zagman]

This is a horrible comparison.

 

It takes 54 BS4 S4 attacks to kill the Sanguinor and 270 BS4 S4 attacks to Kill Mephiston. Hows that for no comparison.

 

I can give Mephiston cover, but cannot improve the T4 Sanguinor's saves versus small arms fire. Extreme vulnerability.

 

That's nice and all, but realistically nobody is going to use small arms fire on meph anyways, unless there's literally nothing else to shoot at, or the squad is going to use special/heavy weapons on him too, in which case, he'll likely lose some wounds. It takes....5 ap1 hits to kill meph. 5 power weapon wounds, 5 MC wounds, you name it. He's not hard to kill.

 

Both odds take a staggering amount of fire power using small arms fire... but it's small arms fire, who cares, look at EVERYTHING ELSE. It takes a hell of a lot more to kill the Sanguinor, and yet another wound to kill the buffed up sarge.

 

Why don't you throw some math around for everything else?

 

EDIT: I've used them both many times, and currently use them in the same list. I can tell you flat out, I have to put a lot more effort into keeping meph alive.

 

Thank you for pointing out that my ridiculous one sided scenario was meant to demonstrate the ridiculousness of the post I was responding to.

 

They are both very difficult to kill in very different ways.

 

In fact, they are equally difficult to kill by S4 power weapons.

 

We could throw comparisons around all day, but small arms fire is a pretty good way to kill the sanguinor as you would any other T5 2+ armor model, while it is a poor way to kill Mephiston. Mephiston draws AT firepower, plain and simple. And the fact that people fire their AT at him is indeed a huge boon. Why would you waste a lascannon on the Sanguinor?

 

At the end of the the day they have very different uses for amries. I prefer Mephiston. If the enemy is shooting at him, then they aren't shooting at the armor I have on the board, which is rather considerable whereas the Sanguinor wouldn't lend himself to being an AT target, he would take the anti infantry firepower which is unlikely to scratch Mephiston.

 

In DOA, the Sanguinor is a better choice. Running mech, field Mephiston.

[Eorek]

Sure Mephiston lacks a inv save... But a that small model with that great speed it's had not getting a coversave for him, so 4+ against all shooty ap 2 attacks ... so the differance between mephiston and sanguinor in the shooting phase is that the sanguinor has 1 better save against AP 2, Less wounds and less T... if you charge mephiston into 20 boys with a powerclaw... well that's you being stupid... Though the sanguinor would go down aswell due to his low T.

 

And that sanguinor can assault far deadlier things than mephiston? sure greater deamons are among the things... though it's not like sanguinor are good at killing them. Face the sanguinor off against a c'tan and he's dead meat while mephiston has a really big chance killing it,

 

mephiston is a killer against everything that isn't immune against instant death, or has a epic inv save, Like nob bikers, Tyranid big guys(preferably without shadow of the warp... but he isn't bad at it), independant characters(sanguinor is good here too... only differance is that sanguinor can't one hit a warboss)

 

Also the thing mephiston shines at : Killing veichles, no matter the veichle mephiston has a huge chance of tearing it in 2 and

 

Even if there is psychic defence mephiston is almost as fast as the sanguinor even if every singel flight attempt was disabled,

6 inches + fleet vs 12 inches jump (and the times he dosn't dispell the wings mephiston is a d6 faster than the sanguinor...)

 

in the end shooting mephiston is like trying to down a blood thirster who's small enough to hide behind a rhino, has a 2+ armour save and can move a d6 faster than it. (oh yea... he's cheaper too...)

 

Sanguinor is like killing 3 storm shield terminators, he's easier to spot if you're using the official model, and he's abit faster. he provides some awesome army bonuses... but he's not good enough to be a none independat character

 

 

I've played several games trying out both characters... Sanguinor is too expensive for his survival rate, even more expensive if you baby sit him with a Sanguinary priest + squad that follows him

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Basically if you are running a DoA army then the Sanguinor is the best choice. If you are running a mech list then Mephiston is the best choice. I believe this has already been said but I think it merits being repeated. They are both really good and each has their own advantages. Mephiston is more of a deathstar while the Sanguinor is great as a character assassin. I don't anyone can make a blanket statement that one is generally better than the other - they both have their individual strengths. Mephiston was extremely popular when the codex was first released. Now that DoA has become popular I think you see them fielded equally depending upon the type of list - DoA or mech.

 

G ;)

[VAGABOND]

The Sanguinor can take Mephiston. :)

[Deschenus Maximus]

Agree with the assessment that Sangui is not survivable enough not to be an IC. Maybe if he had 4 or 5 wounds, but as it stands, I just don't take him anymore.