New to the Fang

[Strike_Commander]

Greetings all,

 

So I've been playing 40k for around 7 years now, and I've always been quite the fan of the Space Wolves. Unfortunately, the shop I play at had a pretty wide spread of armies, with almost all of the chapters of marines played by one player (actually was pretty cool, we had out space wolves guy, blood angels guy, salamanders guy, etc...no stepping on toes.) I was, always, the World Eaters guy, though I always was jealous of our Space Wolves player (This was pre-new codex, mind you. I just love the feel of the army). Well, he's moved away, and the slot is open. I jumped into it as fast as humanly possible :D

 

Still, I want to do things right. I'm going to make a complete Great Company, and I'm in the planning stages. I have a few quick questions, for those brothers longer of fang than myself.

 

1.) Is there a listing or database of all the mythological wolves of Fenris? I know about the ones in the codex, and I've read about a few others through short stories and other Space Wolf literature. I'm going to design my Company badge, and would prefer to keep it canon.

 

2.) Was there an actual reason for the Wolves armour changing from grey to blue-gray? This is more a curiosity question, as I've basically gathered from the forums that armour color is largly player preference.

 

3.) I'm also curious about the term "The Rout". I've read Prospero Burns, among a fair amount of other Space Wolf novels, and I'm wondering if The Rout is a term still used by the Space Wolves currently, or if that was merely a Heresy-Era thing.

 

These questions have, in all likelyhood, been addressed before, but my google-fu has been weak lately. I appreciate any help you all could give me.

 

Also, although I'm simply the latest in a huge surge of Space Wolf players on here and I'm quite sure the grizzled grey-beards of this forum are sick of doing it, any other pointers/tips you could give to a whelp like me would be awesome.

 

For the Wolftime!

[Sarapham]

Greetings all,

 

So I've been playing 40k for around 7 years now, and I've always been quite the fan of the Space Wolves. Unfortunately, the shop I play at had a pretty wide spread of armies, with almost all of the chapters of marines played by one player (actually was pretty cool, we had out space wolves guy, blood angels guy, salamanders guy, etc...no stepping on toes.) I was, always, the World Eaters guy, though I always was jealous of our Space Wolves player (This was pre-new codex, mind you. I just love the feel of the army). Well, he's moved away, and the slot is open. I jumped into it as fast as humanly possible :P

 

Still, I want to do things right. I'm going to make a complete Great Company, and I'm in the planning stages. I have a few quick questions, for those brothers longer of fang than myself.

 

1.) Is there a listing or database of all the mythological wolves of Fenris? I know about the ones in the codex, and I've read about a few others through short stories and other Space Wolf literature. I'm going to design my Company badge, and would prefer to keep it canon.

 

2.) Was there an actual reason for the Wolves armour changing from grey to blue-gray? This is more a curiosity question, as I've basically gathered from the forums that armour color is largly player preference.

 

3.) I'm also curious about the term "The Rout". I've read Prospero Burns, among a fair amount of other Space Wolf novels, and I'm wondering if The Rout is a term still used by the Space Wolves currently, or if that was merely a Heresy-Era thing.

 

These questions have, in all likelyhood, been addressed before, but my google-fu has been weak lately. I appreciate any help you all could give me.

 

Also, although I'm simply the latest in a huge surge of Space Wolf players on here and I'm quite sure the grizzled grey-beards of this forum are sick of doing it, any other pointers/tips you could give to a whelp like me would be awesome.

 

For the Wolftime!

 

 

2.) As far as I know all loyalist Pre-Heresy/Post-Heresy color changes comes from GW changing their painting team a long while ago, and it just sort of happened when the new painting team was not quite sure of things. The grey to blue-grey for us, Black to Dark green for Dark Angels etc.

 

3.) The term itself is one "invented" by Dan Abnett in his view of the Wolves for Prospero Burns, it is not something that comes from any codex or Rulebook as far as I know.

[hendrik]

welcome pup, first of, great choice! have an ale on me!

1) if you can get your hands on the second edition dex, do it. it contains some information about the mythical wolves andaboveal ifa great reading

2)fluffwise it has never been recorded the SW adaped another colour for their armour like it was with the DA so we can only assume why the colours have changed. it might be because of peersonal style of each wolf lord, or some economical reasonaybe babyblue was cheaper back in the days when logan had to resupply and this allowed him to buy some more boltpistols? :P

3) so far it has only been mentioned in the horus heresy book, much like our new legion name noone had heard of before. maybe someone who has read battle of the fang might know if we usethe term the rout still (since that's the only book that got released about space wolves after prospero burns)

[MaveriK]

Greetings all,

 

So I've been playing 40k for around 7 years now, and I've always been quite the fan of the Space Wolves. Unfortunately, the shop I play at had a pretty wide spread of armies, with almost all of the chapters of marines played by one player (actually was pretty cool, we had out space wolves guy, blood angels guy, salamanders guy, etc...no stepping on toes.) I was, always, the World Eaters guy, though I always was jealous of our Space Wolves player (This was pre-new codex, mind you. I just love the feel of the army). Well, he's moved away, and the slot is open. I jumped into it as fast as humanly possible :P

 

Still, I want to do things right. I'm going to make a complete Great Company, and I'm in the planning stages. I have a few quick questions, for those brothers longer of fang than myself.

 

1.) Is there a listing or database of all the mythological wolves of Fenris? I know about the ones in the codex, and I've read about a few others through short stories and other Space Wolf literature. I'm going to design my Company badge, and would prefer to keep it canon.

 

2.) Was there an actual reason for the Wolves armour changing from grey to blue-gray? This is more a curiosity question, as I've basically gathered from the forums that armour color is largly player preference.

 

3.) I'm also curious about the term "The Rout". I've read Prospero Burns, among a fair amount of other Space Wolf novels, and I'm wondering if The Rout is a term still used by the Space Wolves currently, or if that was merely a Heresy-Era thing.

 

These questions have, in all likelyhood, been addressed before, but my google-fu has been weak lately. I appreciate any help you all could give me.

 

Also, although I'm simply the latest in a huge surge of Space Wolf players on here and I'm quite sure the grizzled grey-beards of this forum are sick of doing it, any other pointers/tips you could give to a whelp like me would be awesome.

 

For the Wolftime!

 

welcome to the Fang, Strike_Commander "tenderfoot"

 

1) http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...showarticle=193 scroll down until you see "The Wolves of Fenrisian Myth"

 

2) as mentioned by wolf brother Sarapham, it's more about the artist interpretation. Kinda like how Leman Russ is depicted with red hair in one picture like those shown in the collected visions books, or Leman Russ as a blonde, as seen in the Prospero Burns cover. Same goes with Ragnar's hair

color.. originally he was a blonde, but someone at GW got lazy and decided he looked better with black hair, confusing the name of the blackmaned wolf pelt he wore. But as you should already know, each Wolf Lord can decide which color he wishes to have onto his great company. It's one of the ways us wolves stay independant from the other astartes chapters. But if you really want, you can just say that over the years the colors shifted, just as how the legion turned into a chapter, and how the roles have changed from executioner to protectors of mankind.

 

3) we all have names wolf brother, some of us more than one. Kinda like how we wolves know/understand and speak more than one language. I've used certain terms in the recent book, and I think it works fine! after-all, a wolf is still a wolf. Here are some examples of my fluff, using the terms you've wondered about.

 

ACT III: The Rout, Agents of Morkai

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...;showentry=6881

 

ACT IV: Way of the Wolf

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...;showentry=6997

[Strike_Commander]

Thank you for the info, brother. Unfortunately, the military doesn't think its ok for me to open that link, apparently :P . I'll check it out when I get off shift.

 

I appreciate your help with that, my knowledge on some aspects of the fluff is incomplete.

 

I recognize my failing and will be sure to correct it.

[Strike_Commander]

OK, so I think I've figured out what I'm going to do as far as a badge and theme for my company goes, but I couldn't help but notice something as I was going through the various topics on the forums. It seems as though most SW players have chosen to create a pre-existing great company (IE Bran Redmaw, Ragnar Blackmane, etc.) as opposed to creating their own. I know the spirit of the game is such that creating something individual is encouraged, but I can't help but wonder if the majority of players are going with the latest versions of the Great Companies as laid down by the new codex, or creating their own. Any thoughts?

[Sarapham]

OK, so I think I've figured out what I'm going to do as far as a badge and theme for my company goes, but I couldn't help but notice something as I was going through the various topics on the forums. It seems as though most SW players have chosen to create a pre-existing great company (IE Bran Redmaw, Ragnar Blackmane, etc.) as opposed to creating their own. I know the spirit of the game is such that creating something individual is encouraged, but I can't help but wonder if the majority of players are going with the latest versions of the Great Companies as laid down by the new codex, or creating their own. Any thoughts?

 

 

It depends a bit how you imagine your own force and army, and to some extent how you want to play it.

 

For example I really enjoy the "Longboat, naval, raider, hunting-theme" to my wolves, which I have done since I started them over 10 years ago. Hence when I found information about Engir Krakendoom´s company it was just too strong a fit not to use, cause otherwise it would have been just like him but with a different name.

 

However if you feel none of the described fit you in any way feel free to mash them together or create something completely new. No way is better than the other and that is what is so great about this game and the SW in particular <_<

[Hfran Morkai]

Welcome pup!

 

OK, so I think I've figured out what I'm going to do as far as a badge and theme for my company goes, but I couldn't help but notice something as I was going through the various topics on the forums. It seems as though most SW players have chosen to create a pre-existing great company (IE Bran Redmaw, Ragnar Blackmane, etc.) as opposed to creating their own. I know the spirit of the game is such that creating something individual is encouraged, but I can't help but wonder if the majority of players are going with the latest versions of the Great Companies as laid down by the new codex, or creating their own. Any thoughts?

 

Well with the different ways each Great Company prefers to operate it really works without forcing you to work on the fluff. However I love the idea of creating my own fluff and run a Heresy era Company anyway, meaning I need a different Lord. Mine's called Morkai (Hfran though-means Raven) and acts as a pathfinder force for the rest of the VI Legion. XD

[Forté]

Welcome for starters.

 

I see some of the more knowledgeable wolves have already left their mark here.

 

In regards to Great Company identity, a lot of people go for current one because they like the fluff for them. Others go for the 13th so that they can be a bit more creative. Mixing in captured chaos parts while behind enemy lines as such.

 

The 13th stone also covers the lost companies so is there really so you can pretty much do what you wish. If you do come up with fluff I recommend posting it on here. Not for final approval but because you'll likely get ideas which you didn't think of.

[DV8]

2.) Was there an actual reason for the Wolves armour changing from grey to blue-gray? This is more a curiosity question, as I've basically gathered from the forums that armour color is largly player preference.

 

As as hinted above, there is no official distinction between the blue-grey and neutral-grey color schemes that Games Workshop has painted the Space Wolf armies in. What happened was the 3rd Edition Space Wolves codex featured the studio Space Wolves army painted in a Shadow Grey to Space Wolves Grey color scheme (the blue-grey). With the studio armies, no one painter does the entire thing; each member of the 'Eavy Metal team takes a unit or vehicle (or several, depending on number of painters vs scale/size of the army and time-line) and they collaboratively paint the army together in a month.

 

When the Eye of Terror campaign hit, the studio decided that they needed another studio Space Wolf army to represent the 13th Company. To differentiate them from the Space Wolves everybody was so used to seeing, they painted them Codex Grey to Fortress Grey instead, resulting in a more neutral-grey palette.

 

Because the fluff for the 13th Company had them shooting into the Eye of Terror shortly following the defeat of Horus at Terra, the general community automatically assumed that the neutral-grey color scheme was the "official" Pre-Heresy armor colors, and the blue-grey color scheme the "official" Post-Heresy armor colors. It's a concept that is still carried on today by many gamers who are simply unaware of what really happened.

 

So long story short, there is no official reason for the color change, a grey is a grey is a grey. Whatever color grey you choose is up to you, based on comfort, experience, and the overall look you're going for. The overall fluff is that Space Wolves paint their armor grey; the exact shade and hue doesn't matter. The markings are also dictated by the Wolf Lord who leads the Great company, so as long as the armor is any kind of grey, the sky is the limit to what you do to your Space Wolves.

 

 

DV8

[Goreclaw]

Welcome wolfbrother. Keep your distance of the wolfen and grab a mug of ale from the bar. Throw the remains of the uniformed infantry away with the insatiable bloodlust. None of them is needed here in the fang.

[Valerian]

DV8 has it exactly right. In all of the fluff I have ever read, from Rogue Trader until today, the official color for the Space Wolves' armor has always been, simply, "wolf grey". It was wolf grey pre-Heresy, and remains wolf grey at the closing of M41. How you chose to interpret and paint wolf grey is up to you; even the 'Eavy Metal team has changed the style they have used to represent it several times over the years.

 

Valerian

[Marshal Wilhelm]

2.) Was there an actual reason for the Wolves armour changing from grey to blue-gray? This is more a curiosity question, as I've basically gathered from the forums that armour color is largly player preference.

 

As as hinted above, there is no official distinction between the blue-grey and neutral-grey color schemes that Games Workshop has painted the Space Wolf armies in. What happened was the 3rd Edition Space Wolves codex featured the studio Space Wolves army painted in a Shadow Grey to Space Wolves Grey color scheme (the blue-grey). With the studio armies, no one painter does the entire thing; each member of the 'Eavy Metal team takes a unit or vehicle (or several, depending on number of painters vs scale/size of the army and time-line) and they collaboratively paint the army together in a month.

 

When the Eye of Terror campaign hit, the studio decided that they needed another studio Space Wolf army to represent the 13th Company. To differentiate them from the Space Wolves everybody was so used to seeing, they painted them Codex Grey to Fortress Grey instead, resulting in a more neutral-grey palette.

 

Because the fluff for the 13th Company had them shooting into the Eye of Terror shortly following the defeat of Horus at Terra, the general community automatically assumed that the neutral-grey color scheme was the "official" Pre-Heresy armor colors, and the blue-grey color scheme the "official" Post-Heresy armor colors. It's a concept that is still carried on today by many gamers who are simply unaware of what really happened.

 

So long story short, there is no official reason for the color change, a grey is a grey is a grey. Whatever color grey you choose is up to you, based on comfort, experience, and the overall look you're going for. The overall fluff is that Space Wolves paint their armor grey; the exact shade and hue doesn't matter. The markings are also dictated by the Wolf Lord who leads the Great company, so as long as the armor is any kind of grey, the sky is the limit to what you do to your Space Wolves.

 

 

DV8

 

Ermmm. I am not sure what you are saying is true....

 

WD 259 July 2001, with Index Astartes Wolves of Fenris by Phil Kelly, has pictures of:

top left

Pre-heresy Wolf in grey-grey. It is listed as "P-H Codex colour scheme of grey power armour."

top right

Current Wolf is blue-grey. It is listed as "Contemporary Space Wolves colour scheme"

 

then there is a Wolf Priest and Long Fang below them.

PK definitely writes that there is a difference.

 

+++

 

Matt Hudson simply follows on PK's lead....

 

In WD 281 May 2003 [which is around the time C:EoT came out] Matt Hudson writes in his 13th co. article, Mark of the Wulfen:

"The most striking thing about the army though is the paint scheme which is definitely old school. Because they date back to before Codex:Astartes they have the pre-Heresy grey colour scheme...."

 

Whilst we never get a "this is why Wolves went from grey to blue-grey" in a nice neat article, the GW has pretty much told us this is so.

 

DV8 has it exactly right. In all of the fluff I have ever read, from Rogue Trader until today, the official color for the Space Wolves' armor has always been, simply, "wolf grey". It was wolf grey pre-Heresy, and remains wolf grey at the closing of M41. How you chose to interpret and paint wolf grey is up to you; even the 'Eavy Metal team has changed the style they have used to represent it several times over the years.

 

Valerian

 

GW hasn't gone grey, then blue-grey, then grey for Wolves in a fluctuating style, if you follow me.

Wolves weren't "Wolves" until WD 15something. They were just one of many Chapters, not much different from any other Chapter.

Since WD 15something, they have always kept the blue-grey style since then.

It was only the IA article that put grey-grey back on the radar.

 

There were no 'contemporary' Wolves ever painted in grey-grey since WD 15something.

 

+++

 

So in short, I don't agree with you two :P . However, I am not saying dudes ought to paint their 'modern' Wolves blue-grey. I actually like grey-grey better and my oldest brother likes blue-grey. I like Levitas's dark_blue-grey. Each Lord is free in his Great Company symbol and presumably paint scheme too, in the "wolf grey" style you describe, Valerian.

 

But I think you two are trying to legitimise it by saying GW "never said" about the transition from 30K grey to 40K blue-grey, when they actually have.

 

Just sayin'

 

Thoughts?

[MaveriK]

Thoughts?

yeah, just one.... NERD! hahahahahahahaha jkjk :)

[DV8]

Just sayin'

 

Thoughts?

 

Would be news to me, as I've never seen/read these articles in question. If the Mods allowed it, would a snapshot of the respective images/quotations be allowed to be posted? I've always been under the assumption that it was literally just GW's painting monkeys that decided they were bored of painting blue-grey and wanted to paint awesomesauce grey-grey instead...

 

Ultimately though you're right, there really isn't any reason beyond personal aesthetics to choose one grey over another.

 

 

DV8

[Valerian]

Just sayin'

 

Thoughts?

 

Would be news to me, as I've never seen/read these articles in question. If the Mods allowed it, would a snapshot of the respective images/quotations be allowed to be posted? I've always been under the assumption that it was literally just GW's painting monkeys that decided they were bored of painting blue-grey and wanted to paint awesomesauce grey-grey instead...

 

Ultimately though you're right, there really isn't any reason beyond personal aesthetics to choose one grey over another.

 

 

DV8

 

I'll post the picture from the IA when I get on my computer later. You are correct, however, that it was the painting monkeys that made the changes based on stylistic preferences. The articles came later in an attempt to justify/explain the difference. In the IA, the scheme labelled "pre-Heresy" was nothing but the same scheme used for all Space Wolves in the Rogue Trader era to White Dwarf 156 and 157. The "post-Heresy" scheme was simply the modern style. Unlike the Dark Angels' change from Black to Green, there wasn't even an accompanying explanation for why the Wolves would have wanted or needed a change.

 

Still, in every description, Space Wolves armour is "wolf-grey". Although some designers have officially endorsed a pre/post Heresy distinction, those of us that watched it happen over the years know the truth of it.

[Schertenleib]

So are there pictures coming??

[Hrolleif]

Thank you for the info, brother. Unfortunately, the military doesn't think its ok for me to open that link, apparently :o . I'll check it out when I get off shift.

Don't you just love all the site blocking?

[Valerian]

So are there pictures coming??

Dang Schertenleib, I had forgotten all about this. Thanks for the reminder.

As requested:

EDIT: Image from White Dwarf #259, July 2001, Index Astartes article "Wolves of Fenris" by Phil Kelly.

So, what is labelled as the pre-Heresy colour scheme, is really nothing more than the colour scheme used for pretty much all studio Space Wolves back during the RT era, and brought back for the 13th Company during the Eye of Terror campaign.

V

[Pall Ironbear]

So, what is labelled as the pre-Heresy colour scheme, is really nothing more than the colour scheme used for pretty much all studio Space Wolves back during the RT era, and brought back for the 13th Company during the Eye of Terror campaign.

 

V

 

 

Back in 91, 92 ish, the original SW colour scheme was the Grey with a yellow stripe down the centre of the helmet (Seen in WD, Rogue Trader etc and on the SW page of another site). Most of Canis Wolfborn's Saga was originally written as that of The Russ'. I missed much of the changes that have taken place over the last 15 or so years, but I agree with a few points that have already been made.

 

Much of the new "fluff" (sorry new to the forum, so I assume this refers to the background lore) has been added as new designers and writers have been added to the GW team. They bring in new designs and concepts, meaning the fluff has to be changed to make sense/cover up for faux pas.

 

Just like the Rainbow Warriors, who were one of the original founding chapters(iirc in RT) have had their sagas rewritten, so do those of the SW's. All good sagas get a little embellished, facts forgotten, as the mead flows ;)

 

So, please exscuse this pup as he throws his two pence (cents) in the pot. ;)

 

 

Sat here now looking at an original Cyclone equiped terminator in the grey-grey SW colours, makes me want to break out my Spacehulk and Deathwing games ;)

[Kassill]

Aye, welcome to the Fang laddie! *Slides over an ale*

 

 

Since most of your questions have already been answered I wont bother repeating the same old thing, and just tell you to have fun and be sure to keep us informed of your glories to come! :yes:

[Bobman]

2.) Was there an actual reason for the Wolves armour changing from grey to blue-gray? This is more a curiosity question, as I've basically gathered from the forums that armour color is largly player preference.

 

As as hinted above, there is no official distinction between the blue-grey and neutral-grey color schemes that Games Workshop has painted the Space Wolf armies in. What happened was the 3rd Edition Space Wolves codex featured the studio Space Wolves army painted in a Shadow Grey to Space Wolves Grey color scheme (the blue-grey). With the studio armies, no one painter does the entire thing; each member of the 'Eavy Metal team takes a unit or vehicle (or several, depending on number of painters vs scale/size of the army and time-line) and they collaboratively paint the army together in a month.

DV8

 

 

As a little side note on the colours, I've been painting my SW shadow grey since the mid nineties and the shadow grey you get now is a much darker shade than of old.

 

So even the 'same' colour will come out different over the years so use whichever grey you like!

[Lord Ragnarok]

So are there pictures coming??

Dang Schertenleib, I had forgotten all about this. Thanks for the reminder.

As requested:

So, what is labelled as the pre-Heresy colour scheme, is really nothing more than the colour scheme used for pretty much all studio Space Wolves back during the RT era, and brought back for the 13th Company during the Eye of Terror campaign.

V

Valerian, Please cite the source of this material. We may remove if the source is not cited.

[Valerian]

Valerian, Please cite the source of this material. We may remove if the source is not cited.

 

Certainly! I just edited in the source to my post with the pic (the source had already been mentioned earlier in the thread, so I hadn't thought about repeating it. No problem, though.

 

V

[Lord Ragnarok]

Sorry! Missed that, but it's good that it's in the same post. Thanks!