Old PAGK - New Strike Squads

[Valerian]

So, I'm in the process of converting 40 old PAGK models into the new Purifier and Strike Squads. I'm not too worried about the squad that I've designated to be my Purifier unit, as I'll just leave most of them with the Halberds the old metal models came with, and just plan on painting up an additional Incinerator model, and adding two Daemon Hammer models.

 

However, I'm left with 23 or 24 models with Halberds that I'd like to convert to Nemesis Force Swords for basic Strike Squad members. Has anybody already converted your old metal models to Sword bearers? I originally thought that the best technique would be to try and clip off the hands hold the Halberds, but it seems that the old Halberds usually run up the base of the forearm on most of the models. Trying to clip them off is going to get tricky. Am I going to just have to pop off the whole arm and replace the whole thing with a new plastic arm, Sword, and shoulder pad? I'd really prefer to avoid that, if possible.

 

What do you think fellas? Any recommendations? Any pictures?

 

Hell, if the converting is going to be too painful I might have to relent, pay the Crowe Tax, and just call them all Purifiers and leave them be!

 

Thanks,

 

Valerian

[Tribal-Bob]

I was thinking about clipping the halberds off just above the grip hand and then attaching a blade with a hilt. There are some designs of swords that were like... sword staffs (but not quite halberds where were generally polearms with a short blade on the top.)

[PhallenFoenix]

Let me preface this first with saying it may not be for you.

 

I spent most of this Friday evening and Saturday doing this.

 

I had about 60 PAGK metals, and since I don't intend to play a largely purifier army, I needed to give most of them swords. I don't need to worry about justicar's or Psycannons - I have enough of them.

 

My purchases from this codex have been 4 boxes of GKSS, and 2 boxes of GKT.

 

The first thing I noticed was how many extra arms come with the new plastic kits, especially since I didn't need to use any Psycannons. The second thing I noticed was how similar in scale the the Falcion swords were to the swords used by the metal models.

 

I took off the halberd arm from the old metal PAGK at the shoulder with a hobby plier. Let me tell you, the only think worse than not pinning your models is having to take apart a well pinned model without damaging its paintjob :P After test fitting one of the arms with a falcion in it (note: be careful to only use the right handed falcions - there are 5 per box), I decided that was going to be the obvious solution. There were more than enough arms, but not enough swords to help me with more than a tithe of my miniatures.

 

It was at this point I decided to do another test fit with the Terminator swords (I built them using halberds and hammers, no swords) and found that they didn't look out of place with the two handed swords used by the new plasics. Attaching them to arms as well, I modeled them in a much lower held stance, to look like they were being released from a two handed grip to allow shooting. Together, that amounted to 30 sword with arms, and I was out of both swords and arms. Having already decided I wanted 35, I just raided by old bits, found 5 power swords on arms from generic space marine bits, and attached some of the GK decorative bits they supply in excess with the new plastic kits to disguise them. Presto, 30 sword arms.

 

The new problem I had to face was shoulder pads. The new plastic kits come with only two extra shoulder pads per box, so 8 total. I needed 27 more...

 

Thankfully, the one thing NO space marine player is in short supply of is blank shoulder pads. I went to my LGS, talked to one of the 50 billion space marine players, and 20 minutes later had traded for two sprews full of blank shoulder pads... I think they came from the assault squad boxes. Attach a few purity seals and dangling inquisitorial symbols from the plastic kits, and they're no longer looking bare, and my job was done.

 

I primed them all, painted them, inked them, and presto. All I had to do now was detach the shoulders from 35 pinned metal marines... yuck.

 

In all seriousness though, they look good. The arms are on the same scale, the swords don't look too small, and it didn't cost me a dime extra. My sole problem with the whole thing was it shows how much better I've gotten at painting since I painted the original metals... the arms are all more crisp and better painted than the bodies. Perhaps some day I'll have an excess of time and strip the metals and start over.

 

If you didn't buy any of the plastic boxes, you can still probably trade for most of the bits you need. I'm sure there are some people buying into GK whenever you play, and most of them probably aren't using their extra arms or falcions either.

 

Hope that helps.

[Ozybonza]

I've had the same issue. As most power swords I had happened to come attached to a space marine arm, I just did a full arm swap. In addition, in most cased you are probably going to want to give your justicars halberds or hammers anyway, so each justicar should free you up a sword arm.

 

The last thing to remember is that there's not much point in taking any more than 2 x GKSS - after that, it becomes much more points efficient to take Crowe and purifiers. With special weapons + justicars, that means you really only need 14 sword guys (more if you want to turn some into interceptors) to field them competatively, if you want more than that, dump the GKSS and take purifiers with halberds + crowe.

[PhallenFoenix]

The last thing to remember is that there's not much point in taking any more than 2 x GKSS - after that, it becomes much more points efficient to take Crowe and purifiers. With special weapons + justicars, that means you really only need 14 sword guys (more if you want to turn some into interceptors) to field them competatively, if you want more than that, dump the GKSS and take purifiers with halberds + crowe.

 

Sort of off topic for here, but I really, really, really, REALLY disagree with this statement.

[Valerian]

Let me preface this first with saying it may not be for you.

 

I spent most of this Friday evening and Saturday doing this.

 

I had about 60 PAGK metals, and since I don't intend to play a largely purifier army, I needed to give most of them swords. I don't need to worry about justicar's or Psycannons - I have enough of them.

 

My purchases from this codex have been 4 boxes of GKSS, and 2 boxes of GKT.

 

Foenix,

 

Thanks much for the detailed response. I was afraid that I would have to do full arm swaps. Unfortunately, I don't feel up for buying 6 box sets, as you have done, which is essentially enough for most of a new army when I already have a full army completely painted. I was hoping to do some simple snip and replaces, with just some new paint on the new weapons, but it really is beginning to look like that isn't feasible.

 

I think my ultimate solution is to simply play "Reverse WYSIWYG" (I just coined that phrase). I'll do the work to add the Daemon Hammers to the army where they need to be, but otherwise will just tell opponents that the Swords are Halberds, and the Halberds are Swords. I only play friendly games, no tournaments, and there shouldn't be any confusion, since I'll ensure any opponent will know exactly what the rules are for each model. That will save me a whole hell of a lot of time, money, and effort, but will allow me to continue to play without the huge negative of spending all the extra points, and/or playing with Crowe (who I'm frankly not interested in).

 

As I think about it, Mat Ward really screwed all of us old players, who had already invested in hundreds of dollars of metal models that mostly came with the Halberds. If he had just reversed the special Nemesis rules, and made the Halberds the default cheap weapon (that gives the +1 Save in close combat), and made the Swords the +2 I weapon upgrades, all of us old players would have been squared away. Majority Halberds in every Strike Squad? Check. 5 point Sword upgrade on every Justicar? Check. New plastic boxed sets with Swords to build I6 Purifiers? Check.

 

Now I'm just getting myself madder about this codex than I already was. WAAAARDDDD!!!!

 

Thanks again,

 

V

[BrotherWasted]

Couldn't you have just cut off the old halberds at the wrist, attached a sword and used some greenstuff to replace the purity seal? Problem solved, with the exception that there is only one single-handed nemesis sword in a box. That is something that is not Ward's fault. He doesn't make the miniatures.

 

It wouldn't make sense for halberds to grant the +1 invulnerable save. Neither does it make sense for a Sword to do so, either, but if you're going to choose a weapon that lets you strike first, it makes much more sense for that to be a polearm than a sword.

[Brovius]

My gallery on here has my conversion work on the old PAGK. I've turned four of them into Interceptors so far :huh:

[Valerian]

Couldn't you have just cut off the old halberds at the wrist, attached a sword and used some greenstuff to replace the purity seal? Problem solved

 

 

From my original post: "I originally thought that the best technique would be to try and clip off the hands hold the Halberds, but it seems that the old Halberds usually run up the base of the forearm on most of the model."

 

Since the old halberds run up the forearms, you cannot just clip off the old hand and weapon at the wrist (which would have made the whole thing easy breasy).

 

 

It wouldn't make sense for halberds to grant the +1 invulnerable save. Neither does it make sense for a Sword to do so, either, but if you're going to choose a weapon that lets you strike first, it makes much more sense for that to be a polearm than a sword.

 

You can rationalize anything. I would say that using a polearm and keeping your foe at a relative distance actually would help your defenses in close combat. Halberds are rather slow and clumsy weapons, whereas you could strike much more quickly using two hands on a shorter, lighter Sword.

 

It would make as much logical/rational sense doing it either way. At least reversing the roles/rules wouldn't have screwed all of us old Knights players who have tons of metal models with halberds around that we would prefer to not have to replace. How the models are/were produced isn't Ward's fault, certainly, but I would hope that he had enough of a clue to know about the old metal model range, and what we were already using. He did design the new rules and army list, so he should have taken that into account. That most definitely is completely his responsibility.

 

Regards,

 

V

[Adir]

Here is a fairly obvious conversion using the halberd to hammer:

[prozaczack]

That Hammer head is cool, where is it from?

[Adir]

That Hammer head is cool, where is it from?

Here you go:

http://23lines.blogspot.com/2011/03/commut...mmer-redux.html

[Inquisitor =D=]

:P :o :D

 

Why are you guys changing them? I know its an extra 5pts per model but the sword is doing the GKSS absolutely no good. The sword increases the models Invulnerable save should the model have one first. So... why not keep the halberd? Initiative 6 on every unit makes them a scary thing to assault. Gonna use that fear to keep them in stormbolter range, lay down a hail of rounds.

 

=]D[=

[Adir]

Problem is 5 pts is too much (for most folks) to give a 1A model init 6.

 

Another option would be to take a purgation squad with halberds (only 3 pts each on those guys) plus you get up to 4 free incinerators. That should eat up a few models that wouldn't have to be converted.

[Inquisitor Fox]

I have to agree.. I'm going with halberds on all of my models :P Convenient that I have them to be honest. I'm actually wishing I had another um... four PAGK models with halberds so I can build two Interceptor Squads of 10, then a Purgation squad of 6 and a Purifier squad of 6. Actually though, I guess it's just three PAGK models I need with two Incinerators in the Purifier squad.

 

That being said, I'd almost just do an arm swap at the shoulder and save time, but that's just me :D

[Inquisitor =D=]

Yes, the GKSS may only have one attack, but with the halberd its at I6. That's gonna frighten some people, which I will use to its full advantage. Sometimes I wonder if you guys ever read your opponents... Its not too hard and can twist the game in some drastic ways. Like using Stern +4 GKT to draw half a tyranid army and then pick out the synapse with a vindicare. Easy pickings as far as Stern is concerned.

 

Watch a poker tournament, you'll see what I mean.

 

=]D[=

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Yes, the GKSS may only have one attack, but with the halberd its at I6. That's gonna frighten some people, which I will use to its full advantage. Sometimes I wonder if you guys ever read your opponents... Its not too hard and can twist the game in some drastic ways. Like using Stern +4 GKT to draw half a tyranid army and then pick out the synapse with a vindicare. Easy pickings as far as Stern is concerned.

 

Watch a poker tournament, you'll see what I mean.

 

=]D[=

 

Except that argument falls down completely against a competent player. Strike squads are bad at close-combat, although perversely they're excellent at slaying lone monsters or heroes without Eternal Warrior. I6 just means you get your handful of S4/5 attacks in, maybe kill a few dudes (WS4 and 1A is pretty pathetic), then you suffer more casualties in return. If you want ninja Knights, take Purifiers. Strike squads only purpose is to sit on a backfield objective in a Rhino and cast 'Warp Quake' to prevent pods/Terminators/Daemons landing in your objective, and supply some extra psycannon.

[Inquisitor =D=]

Except that argument falls down completely against a competent player. Strike squads are bad at close-combat, although perversely they're excellent at slaying lone monsters or heroes without Eternal Warrior. I6 just means you get your handful of S4/5 attacks in, maybe kill a few dudes (WS4 and 1A is pretty pathetic), then you suffer more casualties in return. If you want ninja Knights, take Purifiers. Strike squads only purpose is to sit on a backfield objective in a Rhino and cast 'Warp Quake' to prevent pods/Terminators/Daemons landing in your objective, and supply some extra psycannon.

 

Pessimistic much? Gotta remember we've got universal power weapons to boot. Personally I still feal that the Strike Squad is going to be the basis for the GKs despite Wards best efforts...

 

=]D[=

[Valerian]

:huh: :o :mellow:

 

Why are you guys changing them? I know its an extra 5pts per model but the sword is doing the GKSS absolutely no good. The sword increases the models Invulnerable save should the model have one first. So... why not keep the halberd? Initiative 6 on every unit makes them a scary thing to assault. Gonna use that fear to keep them in stormbolter range, lay down a hail of rounds.

 

=]D[=

 

I wouldn't mind keeping 2 per squad, but at 5 points each I don't want 8 per Squad as I have now. An investment for I6 is justified for me in my Assault Forces (probably a Purifier Squad and a Terminator Squad), but my Consolidation units, which are focused on controlling Objectives, primarily, are going to be oriented on shooting, not necessarily close combats. I'd prefer to have those 150 points available elsewhere in the army, where I think I'll get more use.

 

Regards to all for your comments and perspectives, however.

 

Valerian

[Gentlemanloser]

Val, if you're not adverse to picking up a few of the new PAGK boxes, you really can get a lot of miliage out of them.

 

As long as you don't mind using a single Falchion to represent a NFS!

 

There's quite a few extra right arms, especially if you don't use the Heavy Weapon ones (which will still take a Falchion), the only thing you'll be missing is the right Shoulder Pad, as there's only 5 in a box. IIRC there are 3 2 handed Swords, and 2 1 handed NFS (one is the sword skewering a head). Can't remember how many extra right arms there are, but really you can use a standard Marine right arm for these. Should be easy to pick up from a bitz store.

 

The pads can be easily replaced with standard Marine ones, as it's (luckily!) the bare pad. ^_^ Just slap a Purity Seal on it or some such!

 

I'd just replace the whole NFW arm of the old metal mini, and stick a full new plastic one on there.

 

Just to note, the NDH is a two handed grip, so you can't really use it with an old PAGK, unless you want to do some work to the Storm Bolter arm. :angry:

[Red Lost Soldier]

I've just started some work on converting my 30 odd old PAGK into sword bearing GKSS. Well I'm going to convert about 14-16 of them (2 ten man GKSS, minus 4 Psycannon models, minus 2 sword bearing Justicars).

 

I went for the chopping off the wrist and gluing falchions in their place. Working out pretty well so far. I bought 2 GKSS boxes and 1 GKT box, so I should have enough from those 3 boxes. If not I can pinch the bigger swords and even thinking of reversing the right hand falchions if I need. From the 2 GKSS boxes I built 4 Psycannon models and 2 Hammer Justicars so I have spare swords also.

 

You have to make two cuts, I simply used basic clippers to do this then cleaned up with a craft knife. The first cut is along the wrist guard and halberd, as they are often connected, the purity seal may be wrecked here. THe second cut is along the wrist, between the hand and the wrist guard. Tidy up and glue to the end of the arm the falchion from the plastic set and you are away.

 

Here are some pictures (you should be able to see the cuts, they are the bare silver bits):

 

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w281/listerryan/GreyKnightFalchionConversion1.jpg

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w281/listerryan/GreyKnightFalchionConversion2.jpg

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w281/listerryan/GreyKnightFalchionConversion3.jpg

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w281/listerryan/GreyKnightFalchionConversion4.jpg

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w281/listerryan/GreyKnightFalchionConversion5.jpg

[Inquisitor =D=]

Hmmm... pleasantly surprised here. They don't look so bad like that, which is good, the claymores just seem silly to me. The poses for them just seem... "cluttered"?

 

=]D[=