Blood Lance and targets

[Cpt. Blood Donator]

Well, something just occured to me:

 

Does the blood lance have to target the same unit as the rest of the librarians squad? I know, main rulebook says all shooting is at

the same target, but that Codex can change that (Hello Long Fangs). It is the phrasing of the power, which says "extend a straight line [...] in any direction" [...]".

Doesn't that give you the option to shoot something else?

[Zarmon]

I'd go that you can shoot two different targets but I'd check they haven't FAQ this yet

[Cpt. Blood Donator]

I'd go that you can shoot two different targets but I'd check they haven't FAQ this yet

 

It's not in the FAQ, sadly. It should be xD I dunno what to make of it though, that quad-melta honour guard now seems a bit over the top

if the actually now have the ability to pop 2 raiders in a turn with a priest. Or hell, just two rhinos is good enough.

[knife&fork]

It's a normal psychic shooting attack, so he'll have to shoot the same target as any squad he has currently joined. Nothing prevents you from hitting multiple targets with some clever positioning though.

 

EDIT:

Looking over the rules for blood lance does raise some interesting questions.

 

"Any enemy unit in the lances path suffers a single S8 AP1 hit of the lance type"

 

For vehicles, monsters and single model units this is pretty clear cut. For units with multiple models in it one could argue that the line simply passing through it without touching a base is enough to cause a hit. What about a unit within a unit, could the blood lance snipe an embedded IC if it passed directly on top of it?

[Cpt. Blood Donator]

It's a normal psychic shooting attack, so he'll have to shoot the same target as any squad he has currently joined. Nothing prevents you from hitting multiple targets with some clever positioning though.

 

Well, that's just it, normal p.s don't draw lines in ANY direction, "any" being the operative word. The lance doesn't target anything in the rules, it goes in a direction, hell, you can shoot it into thin air.

 

edit:

direction is the operative word, not any.

[knife&fork]

It's a normal psychic shooting attack, so he'll have to shoot the same target as any squad he has currently joined. Nothing prevents you from hitting multiple targets with some clever positioning though.

 

Well, that's just it, normal p.s don't draw lines in ANY direction, "any" being the operative word. The lance doesn't target anything in the rules, it goes in a direction, hell, you can shoot it into thin air.

 

edit:

direction is the operative word, not any.

 

When you shoot you have to declare a target, in the case of the blood lance you will then instead of a roll to hit pick a direction and roll the dice for range. There's nothing in the wording that let you sidestep the normal shooting procedure up to that point. Shooting attacks using a template also has direction and works differently for normal shooting.

[Redfinger]

When I I have used Blood Lance in the past I have rolled my distance dice, then once I have determined the direction I am going to fire I measure out a straight line from my Libby in the direction I declared. Then my opponent and I determine how many bases are actually being hit by the lance, and the equals the number of possible wounds to be generated, then if there is enough distance we resolve any further possible attacks on vehicles or other units. Generally I have not tried to "snipe" things out as the rule says the unit takes the wound, not individual models.

 

Ashton

[JamesI]

When I I have used Blood Lance in the past I have rolled my distance dice, then once I have determined the direction I am going to fire I measure out a straight line from my Libby in the direction I declared. Then my opponent and I determine how many bases are actually being hit by the lance, and the equals the number of possible wounds to be generated, then if there is enough distance we resolve any further possible attacks on vehicles or other units. Generally I have not tried to "snipe" things out as the rule says the unit takes the wound, not individual models.

 

Ashton

That's not how it works. It doesn't matter how many bases in a unit are hit. Each unit takes 1 hit. So its not possible to cause 2+ wounds to the same unit from 1 Blood Lance.

[knife&fork]

That's not how it works. It doesn't matter how many bases in a unit are hit. Each unit takes 1 hit. So its not possible to cause 2+ wounds to the same unit from 1 Blood Lance.

 

Which raises a few questions regarding vehicle squadrons and embedded ICs....

[JamesI]

That's not how it works. It doesn't matter how many bases in a unit are hit. Each unit takes 1 hit. So its not possible to cause 2+ wounds to the same unit from 1 Blood Lance.

 

Which raises a few questions regarding vehicle squadrons and embedded ICs....

A squadron is one unit, so 1 hit, and an IC attached to a unit is 1 unit for purposes of shooting, so again 1 hit.

[knife&fork]

That's not how it works. It doesn't matter how many bases in a unit are hit. Each unit takes 1 hit. So its not possible to cause 2+ wounds to the same unit from 1 Blood Lance.

 

Which raises a few questions regarding vehicle squadrons and embedded ICs....

A squadron is one unit, so 1 hit, and an IC attached to a unit is 1 unit for purposes of shooting, so again 1 hit.

 

One hit on vehicle squadrons yes, but does it have to make contact with a hull or is it enough to simply pass through the space occupied by the unit? RAI vs RAW.

 

I have to check the exact wording in the rulebook for ICs in case someone brings it up, but that's the way it should be.

 

Reading the FAQ there's another interesting situation that could potentially lead to some arguments if the librarian is attached to a squad. Blood lance have to target the same unit as the rest of the squad, but it's possible to hit multiple units. Since you can only assault what you shoot, and the librarian can only assault the first unit hit by the lance it's possible to disallow assaults for both the IC and squad if the lance first hits a different unit from the squad. Couldn't the same thing happen with a template weapon as well?

[Leonaides]

TBH, if you stick a screwdriver in a plug socket - you're going to fry. And you probably deserve it for being daft. Easy way to avoid teh above situation is simply to require the Lance line to have to hit a modek in the intended target unit first. I fyou have to hit that unit first, then you have no problem with charging issues. Is that what the rules writer meant? Almost certainly. Is that the only way of reading it the assorted warped minds of the 40K playing communities managed to read it - unfortunately no.

[knife&fork]

TBH, if you stick a screwdriver in a plug socket - you're going to fry. And you probably deserve it for being daft. Easy way to avoid teh above situation is simply to require the Lance line to have to hit a modek in the intended target unit first. I fyou have to hit that unit first, then you have no problem with charging issues. Is that what the rules writer meant? Almost certainly. Is that the only way of reading it the assorted warped minds of the 40K playing communities managed to read it - unfortunately no.

 

I'm a pretty easygoing type myself. I just prefer to work these things through on a forum before the situation comes up at a table. It's a lot easier to discuss when nothing is at stake, some players can be really competitive.

 

After going over the text regarding this in the rulebook I think it's pretty clear that you can't target ICs (wording doesn't leave any doubt) and that you need to hit a model to hit a unit since there is no definition of the area occupied by a unit.

[SevenExxes]

It's the fluff description of the psychic power that gets people.

 

"... skewering everything in it's path"

 

That would mean you could position it to take out IC's and single models that pose a greater threat like power fist sergeants and meltagunners and then have it slam into a tank blowing it up.

That would be OP.

[Leonaides]

but happily fluff is meaningless in a rules debate.

[orbion]

Ok this has become really confusing as a read haha i'd like to try and simplify this and get either a yes or no answer tot ry and sum it all up.

 

 

You shoot blood lance at say 24" range for testing purpose.. There are 2 squads of tactical marines one directly infront of the other. The blood lance hit the first squad of tactical marines. (SCENARIO 1) each INDIVIDUAl model it hits or " goes through" takes a hit for example 3 marines take a hit OR. (SCENARIO 2) One INDIVIDUAL model in that tactical squad gets hit.

 

(SCENARIO 3) The blood lance hits squad 1 and has enough range to hit tactical squad 2. Does it then hit tactical squad one and then carry on to hit tactical squad 2? If so then does scenario 1 or 2 apply to the rule.

 

I state it like this because everyone is used to seeing rules stated as marines lol, as well as the rule stating that ANY enemy unit in the path of it takes a single hit now assuming the other rules are stated correctly have a look at blood boil the rule states to pick one model from a UNIT. that being said a "unit" is all the models in a squad not just a single marine. (EXAMPLE) 1 tactical marine is a model 10 tactical marines is a "unit"

[Judaz]

3, each unit takes a hit. Just like being shot at with a melta. And the librarian has to hit the same unit his squad is shooting at.

 

Thats why Blood lance sucks. It's good if your opponent has several vehicles standing in a row. Oh wait I rolled 4 1's with my dice, I don't even hit the first vehicle.

No, this power sucks. I have never killed anything but a few marines with it.

 

I don't understand how they thought when writing it. Jaws gets fixed range, GK has a template, but we get 4d6 range? And just a single hit per unit? If they wanted it to be random, give it 12+2d6 range or 6+3d6 even. The way it is written now makes it way to random to be used. I can understand the randomness if it was supposed to be able to shoot out of cc or at a different unit than the one the libbys squad was shooting at. That would make it worth it!

 

But now it's just a waste of space in the Librarians mind.

[orbion]

well with that being said then yes blood lance does seem sub optimal. The chance of you getting a really high roll and being posistioned right to get mor than one hit on a vehicle combined with the fact that unless you plan to assault next turn with the squad it's in you are probably going to get it shredded by CC units or not be in CC and get blasted with loads of firepower. Unless of course you have better targets to shoot at for example a Meq angels list.

[knife&fork]

I think the limitations makes it balanced, anything less would be very over powered. It's a "free" S8AP1 lance that can autohit multiple targets, what else do you want?

 

4D6 will average 14 inches, max out at 24 and more importantly the minimum you can roll is 4, one inch more than the 3 you need to get melta bonus from the infernus pistol.

If Blood lance doesn't fit your play style that's one thing, but it's not a bad psychic shooting power.

 

If there's a power that needs fixing it's smite, pysch test and roll to hit along with S4 makes it pretty weak.

[Cpt. Blood Donator]

I think the limitations makes it balanced, anything less would be very over powered. It's a "free" S8AP1 lance that can autohit multiple targets, what else do you want?

 

4D6 will average 14 inches, max out at 24 and more importantly the minimum you can roll is 4, one inch more than the 3 you need to get melta bonus from the infernus pistol.

If Blood lance doesn't fit your play style that's one thing, but it's not a bad psychic shooting power.

 

If there's a power that needs fixing it's smite, pysch test and roll to hit along with S4 makes it pretty weak.

 

There you are right on the money. The power is so good that we B.A players ditch moste C.C powers in favour of it. That says a lot about it. Not that B.A have much problem with tanks, as we get up to three meltas in a RAS. Maybe we are overkilling a bit?

[1Drop]

Blood lance sounds rubbish.. I was told I could knack whole rows of vehicles with a librarian dreadnought but it seams like we have been bumped (*ripped off) with the rules for this attack, don't think I will be using it at all now.

[Brother Yorei]

since you pick a direction and not a specific target, it doesnt matter if it is pointed at the unit the rest of your unit is shooting.

[Volcatus]

Blood lance sounds rubbish.. I was told I could knack whole rows of vehicles with a librarian dreadnought but it seams like we have been bumped (*ripped off) with the rules for this attack, don't think I will be using it at all now.

 

You can hit rows of vehicles with this power. That's not in question. The funky part of Blood Lance is that you can fire it into a 40 man IG infantry blob, and it will only cause one hit. If you rolled high enough to lance past that blob you have the possibility of hitting targets beyond it though.

 

Blood Lance is still a potent power in the right army list (DoA).