Nikt208 Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 And why should the leader of the First Company be the best fighter of the Legion? Lucius of the Emperor's Children isn't the Captain of the First Company, but he is still one of the finest swordsmen in the Crusade/Heresy era Imperium. Fighter, no. He is, however, normally the best strategist and leader in the legion, excluding the Primarch himself. Kor Phaeron is not included in this. I would definitely include Kor Phaeron. The first captain should generally be a perfect representation of the legions style and focus. In the case of the Word Bearers that seems to be sedition and using rhetoric to create/widen fractures in the ranks. Erebus aside I cant think of anyone who does this better than Kor Phaeron. Now obviously Kor Phaeron would lose in hand to hand combat to Sigismund, Abaddon, or for that matter most of the other first captains, but thats not how he'd play the game. Like the Alpha legion and Night Lords he would not fight with honor, he'd most likely pour poison into the ear of Sigismund's second in command or his company, and then allow them to rip themselves apart. However if we were purely looking at actual combat, my money would be Ahriman. He would mentally rip apart his foe before he got to within striking distance. That being said all of the first captains are going to be badasses, just in their own ways. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/227802-1st-company-beatdown/page/2/#findComment-2730623 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balthamal Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 As an interesting side note, do we even have a list of 1st company captains? There's a fair few bits of contention to muddy the waters. Khârn for example is Angron's most trusted son but he's only captain of 8th company (by dint of being the highest ranked astartes left after Angron had his hissy fit on them all) and with the Emperor's Children, they do have a 1st captain but they also have lord commanders. Who would rank out of those? Since I'm a tad bored here's a list of the 1st captains I can track down Dark Angels - Unknown Emperor's Children - Julius Kaesaron (pleasure junkie) Iron Warriors - Unknown White Scars - Unknown Space Wolves - They have one but Prospero Burns isn't available to check just now Imperial Fists - Sigismund (butcher of traitors plain and simple) Night Lords - Sevatar Blood Angels - problems here, would Raldoron count being the Legion Master? or possibly Sanguinary Guard Iron Hands - Gabriel Santar (KIA) World Eaters - Khârn (he's the meanest) Ultramarines - Who cares Death Guard - Typhon (contender) Thousand Son's - Ahriman (most powerful astartes psychic ever) Luna Wolves - Abbadon (10,000 years of marine killing and counting) Word Bearers - Kor Phaeron (Not even Astartes he'd die 1st) Salamanders - (unknown possibly KIA) Raven Guard - (unknown possibly KIA) Alpha Legion - Pech (sneaky dog)# Before doing that list I would have agreed with Abbadon and Sigismund but now I'm not so sure. Some hard as nails Astartes in there Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/227802-1st-company-beatdown/page/2/#findComment-2730744 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artein Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 Night Lords - Sevatar Probably KIA during HH. After Heresy Zso Sahaal is the 1st Captain. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/227802-1st-company-beatdown/page/2/#findComment-2730791 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balthamal Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 Night Lords - Sevatar Probably KIA during HH. After Heresy Zso Sahaal is the 1st Captain. I'm pretty sure theres a post B&C somewhere where ADB has stated that the fate of Sevatar will be covered in Blood Reaver. Would be a nice touch if he happened to be 1 of Sigismunds many victims Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/227802-1st-company-beatdown/page/2/#findComment-2730850 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dinks Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 Yeh it would be great to see Sigismund give him a kicking. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/227802-1st-company-beatdown/page/2/#findComment-2730855 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ju'kosian Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 World Eaters - Khârn (he's the meanest) Isn't Khârn the commander of the 8th Assault company ?? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/227802-1st-company-beatdown/page/2/#findComment-2731368 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dinks Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 Isn't Khârn the commander of the 8th Assault company ?? Yes you are right, he also served as the personal equerry of Angron. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/227802-1st-company-beatdown/page/2/#findComment-2731377 Share on other sites More sharing options...
c-wrex Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 I believe Forrix was the captain of the Iron Warriors first grand company. In Storm of Iron, he was double hard on toast. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/227802-1st-company-beatdown/page/2/#findComment-2731476 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Ferrum Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 I just have to pipe in for the X Legion here. Yeah, Gabriel Santar died, I got it. But Julius had to kill him TWICE to make it stick. That's got to count for something, right? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/227802-1st-company-beatdown/page/2/#findComment-2731574 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chapter Master Ignis Domus Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 And why should the leader of the First Company be the best fighter of the Legion? Lucius of the Emperor's Children isn't the Captain of the First Company, but he is still one of the finest swordsmen in the Crusade/Heresy era Imperium. Fighter, no. He is, however, normally the best strategist and leader in the legion, excluding the Primarch himself. Kor Phaeron is not included in this. I would definitely include Kor Phaeron. The first captain should generally be a perfect representation of the legions style and focus. In the case of the Word Bearers that seems to be sedition and using rhetoric to create/widen fractures in the ranks. Erebus aside I cant think of anyone who does this better than Kor Phaeron. Now obviously Kor Phaeron would lose in hand to hand combat to Sigismund, Abaddon, or for that matter most of the other first captains, but thats not how he'd play the game. Like the Alpha legion and Night Lords he would not fight with honor, he'd most likely pour poison into the ear of Sigismund's second in command or his company, and then allow them to rip themselves apart. However if we were purely looking at actual combat, my money would be Ahriman. He would mentally rip apart his foe before he got to within striking distance. That being said all of the first captains are going to be badasses, just in their own ways. I more got the impression that, while moderately average, he was more the equivalent of a political appointee and less a master of war. The image of a snivelling, drippy-nosed, nasally voice guy in armor that is a bit big on him just won't get out of my head. And Deus, I assure you, Santar shall somehow rise again. I mean, if being stabbed through the spine doesn't kill you, nothing will. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/227802-1st-company-beatdown/page/2/#findComment-2731585 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codicier Lucion Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 Then the Alpha Legion hang back until they can manipulate the Space Wolves into turning up to fight for them while repeatedly sabotaging any advantage the other legions they were fighting might gain over the other. What makes you think they would succed? The fact the Alphas prefer a certain type of warfare does not necessarely mean it will bring them victory every single time nor does it mean they would be able to preform their preffered style of warfare perfectly in every instance. Yeah, as I said previously I don't think we had enough information to actually do this properly so I'm just joking that the Alpha Legion would win by manipulating the legions into killing one another. But if you want similarly over the top examples for the other two legions listed there; the Night Lords would probably win by having Konrad Curze ambush them screaming "I am the night!" in his best goddamn batman voice. The Raven Guard would probably win by having their members ninja their way into the other legions, spend several hours hiding in plane sight to view the enemy battle plans and then steal all of their bullets while they weren't looking. Thousand Son's - Ahriman (most powerful astartes psychic ever) Are we taking examples from the forty first millennium into account, because I get the feeling Mephiston at least contests that title. Also, Wrex is correct, Forrix is mentioned in Visions of Heresy as being the first grand company captain for the Iron Warriors during the Heresy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/227802-1st-company-beatdown/page/2/#findComment-2731631 Share on other sites More sharing options...
c-wrex Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 I almost hate to say it, but I bet it's at least a safe bet that the Ultra's first company would smoke several of the others, if not the most, in a successive company on company style contest. I mean, the entire legion is organized around adapt and destroy, and even during the crusade maintained the highest tally of successful campaigns. Not the biggest Ultra fan (hardly a hater), but give credit where credit is due. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/227802-1st-company-beatdown/page/2/#findComment-2731745 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sons of Horus Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 Now that I looked at the list again I'm starting to think twice (although Abaddon and Sigismund are still top). The 1st captains are some seriously hard astartes. It would be awesome to see them duke it out sometime :P. btw, Sevatar appears in Blood Reaver? I.NEED.THIS.BOOK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/227802-1st-company-beatdown/page/2/#findComment-2731763 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Traben Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 Gunnar Gunnhilt is the Captain of the Space Wolves First Company. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/227802-1st-company-beatdown/page/2/#findComment-2731943 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pulse Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 What a terrible name for a Space Marine, lol. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/227802-1st-company-beatdown/page/2/#findComment-2731949 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyros Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 I just have to pipe in for the X Legion here. Yeah, Gabriel Santar died, I got it. But Julius had to kill him TWICE to make it stick. That's got to count for something, right? You mean he failed in a fight twice? :jaw: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/227802-1st-company-beatdown/page/2/#findComment-2732006 Share on other sites More sharing options...
c-wrex Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 I just have to pipe in for the X Legion here. Yeah, Gabriel Santar died, I got it. But Julius had to kill him TWICE to make it stick. That's got to count for something, right? You mean he failed in a fight twice? :) ZING! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/227802-1st-company-beatdown/page/2/#findComment-2732420 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Rathul Posted April 21, 2011 Author Share Posted April 21, 2011 I just have to pipe in for the X Legion here. Yeah, Gabriel Santar died, I got it. But Julius had to kill him TWICE to make it stick. That's got to count for something, right? You mean he failed in a fight twice? :) ZING! But wasn't Santar about to finish Julius??? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/227802-1st-company-beatdown/page/2/#findComment-2732431 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balthamal Posted April 24, 2011 Share Posted April 24, 2011 Now that I looked at the list again I'm starting to think twice (although Abaddon and Sigismund are still top). The 1st captains are some seriously hard astartes. It would be awesome to see them duke it out sometime :D. btw, Sevatar appears in Blood Reaver? I.NEED.THIS.BOOK It's been stated somewhere I just forget exactly where. His appearance in TFH shows a lot of potential for one truly sadistic killer so have to wait and see what comes along. And what do you mean you need this book?? Why is it not already on pre-order!! The Night Lords are not known for leniency. Ever, let along for mistakes like this :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/227802-1st-company-beatdown/page/2/#findComment-2735305 Share on other sites More sharing options...
koran Posted April 24, 2011 Share Posted April 24, 2011 I just have to pipe in for the X Legion here. Yeah, Gabriel Santar died, I got it. But Julius had to kill him TWICE to make it stick. That's got to count for something, right? You mean he failed in a fight twice? :angry: As opposed to Abbadon who has failed 13 times since the Heresy. 14 is you include the Heresy. LOOOOSSSSER!!! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/227802-1st-company-beatdown/page/2/#findComment-2735367 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted April 24, 2011 Share Posted April 24, 2011 I just have to pipe in for the X Legion here. Yeah, Gabriel Santar died, I got it. But Julius had to kill him TWICE to make it stick. That's got to count for something, right? You mean he failed in a fight twice? ;) As opposed to Abbadon who has failed 13 times since the Heresy. 14 is you include the Heresy. LOOOOSSSSER!!! if your a troll, please leave. if your you just not informed, then here is a little info. not every black crusade is led by Abbadon. There has been several led by other beings, such as Angron and high level daemon princes. not every crusade is a "kill maim burn!" event. they have specific goals to achieve. once achieved, then things can get kinda hairy. some previous crusades were to wipe out specific Space Marine Chapters, some were to steal the Blackstone Fortresses. the previous crusade's aim was to remove Cadia from its role at the Eye of Terror. On a large, broad scale it was successful. Cadia is now a war torn world with neither sides controlling the planet. However, now chaos fleets can bypass Cadia with less trouble then they had before. Is is a complete win...no. but is it enough for Abby? probably. WLK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/227802-1st-company-beatdown/page/2/#findComment-2735446 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chapter Master Ignis Domus Posted April 24, 2011 Share Posted April 24, 2011 Or, in simpler terms, look not to the obvious, for it is a deception, but rather the unexpected, as that is where the true goals lie. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/227802-1st-company-beatdown/page/2/#findComment-2735455 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Student Of Dorn Posted April 24, 2011 Share Posted April 24, 2011 not every black crusade is led by Abbadon. That is right but each of the 13 were, those that were lead by others are names after them like "Black Crusade of Doombreed." or "Black Crusade of Tallomin" Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/227802-1st-company-beatdown/page/2/#findComment-2735463 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chapter Master Ignis Domus Posted April 24, 2011 Share Posted April 24, 2011 Regardless, they weren't necessarily failures. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/227802-1st-company-beatdown/page/2/#findComment-2735467 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt. Lacerus Posted April 24, 2011 Share Posted April 24, 2011 Dont want to start an Ultra-hate fest but what do we know about the Ultras 1st Company during the HH? Captain Lacerus Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/227802-1st-company-beatdown/page/2/#findComment-2735519 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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