Astartes Inquisitor?

[Something Wycked]

So, inspired by this thread which contains this snippet of a post:

 

...I personally don't like the idea that an inquisitor could be an astartes...

 

I ask the B&C the following question:

 

Would it be possible for an Astartes to become an Inquisitor? Lets set up a hypothetical situation just to explain away most of the stumbling blocks- stack the deck in his favor, as it were.

 

Lets assume that this Astartes belongs to a Second Founding or newer Chapter that has close ties with the Inquisition. This particular Astartes has served in the Deathwatch for an extended period of time and was seconded to an Inquisitor, on demand of said Inquisitor, in a time of great need and performed admirably. Now let's insert the event that his Chapter suffers a catastrophic event, like that suffered by the Crimson Fists, whereby the Chapter is all but annihilated. Unlike the Crimson Fists, however, the Chapter is not held together and is disbanded, its members shuffled to other Chapters, its armory divided up similarly.

 

This particular Astartes, having extensive time serving with the Inquisition, has a "benefactor" (Administratum, High Lords, Ecclesiarchy, Inquisition?) recommend his elevation to the rank of Inquisitor rather than be folded into another Chapter.

 

Is it possible? What are your thoughts?

[Red Lost Soldier]

I don't think Astartes have the subtlety or open mindedness required of an Inquisitor. Astartes are warriors, not investigators. That's only my perspective though.

[Brother-Chaplain Kage]

The way marines are engineered and indoctrinated - basically mind-scrubbed at 'creation' and then brain washed to be the ultimate obedient soldier, no, I don't think an Astartes would make a good Inquisitor at all.

 

Inquistors don't have superhuman strength, endurance, and durability to see them through their duties, along with powered armor that works like a second skin for them. They have some nifty gadgets, maybe some psychic abilities, but what really makes an Inquisitor dangerous is their minds - a keen intellect, and indomitable will, and the desire to do whatever it takes to stop a threat to the Imperium. I don't think a marine would have the mental capacity, certainly not the imagination, to be an Inquisitor.

[DarKHaZZ13]

The way marines are engineered and indoctrinated - basically mind-scrubbed at 'creation' and then brain washed to be the ultimate obedient soldier, no, I don't think an Astartes would make a good Inquisitor at all.

 

Inquistors don't have superhuman strength, endurance, and durability to see them through their duties, along with powered armor that works like a second skin for them. They have some nifty gadgets, maybe some psychic abilities, but what really makes an Inquisitor dangerous is their minds - a keen intellect, and indomitable will, and the desire to do whatever it takes to stop a threat to the Imperium. I don't think a marine would have the mental capacity, certainly not the imagination, to be an Inquisitor.

 

Not all inquisitors are open minded, creative individuals. There is a reason daemon hunters are called the order of the hammer (malleus).

Some are blunt, straight to the point, strict, and maybe even naive.

 

The members of the inqusition are many, and are multifaceted like the differing nature of human personalities.

Therefore it would be wrong to assume that a space marine would not fit the charecter or have the capacity, as it is impossible to define what exactly is required of a memeber of the inqusition (the differeing factions make this ever the more complicated).

Ineeded one would argue that some space mairnes are more than capable of the task, being master tacticians. Stealth and subtlty is not below them; think of the Alpha Legion.

Open mindedness is not a completely out of the question; think about the relictors, the malevents. ( inkow these are seemingly all heretical choice, but astartes they still are)

 

But I digress.

I still side with the idea that a Space Marine would not make a good inqusitor...

Maybe an inqusitorial agent; like a body guard (DW seconded as a permenant guard for a prolific/infamous/important/badass xenos inquisitor)

 

thats my 2 henchmen at least.

 

DH

[Something Wycked]

If all Astartes don't have what is on Kage's list:

 

Keen intellect

Indomitable will

Desire to do whatever it takes

Imagination

 

How have they managed to keep the Imperium safe all these years? Certainly not through simple brute force. They have brute force in spades, yes, but if they didn't have all of the qualities listed above they wouldn't be able to wield that brute force as effectively as they have.

 

Honestly, the suggestion that Astartes don't have the "mental capacity" to be an Inquisitor I find a bit silly. They carry the genes of the Emperor and the Primarchs. Guilliman was one of the best tacticians in the 40k universe, ever. Astartes are still some of the greatest tacticians the Imperium has, with certain Chapters cleaving to that statement to a greater or lesser degree. The mental acuity needed to organize, plan, execute, manage, and win a battle against a skilled opponent is tremendous, especially when always outnumbered and often outgunned.

 

Let us suppose that this Astartes we have picked in our hypothetical situation is at least of Captain ability, if not rank; further, that he is no Arjac Rockfist or Ragnar Blackmane, but closer to Cato Sicarius in intellect and skills.

[Chengar Qordath]

Astartes are warriors, not investigators. That's only my perspective though.

That pretty much sums it up, IMO. Space Marines and Inquisitors have completely different duties that require completely different skillsets. Also, an Astartes Inquisitor would be a lot more restricted in his options for addressing many situations; an 8-foot tall 1000 lb superhuman wouldn't really do too well with undercover work, for example. Also, given their general divorcement from the rest of Humankind, most Astartes probably would have difficulty in a job that centers almost entirely on interacting with unmodified humans, and only having very minimal contact with other Space Marines.

 

Also, the internal politics of the Imperium would be an issue; almost every Astartes chapter in existence would strongly object to permanently giving up one of their Battle Brothers to the Inquisition, especially since any Marine that would make a good Inquisitor is likely to be the sort of talent a chapter would really want to hold onto. No chapter would willingly give up a Marine with the potential to be a Captain/Librarian/etc, and no Inquisitor would dare to try and steal a Marine from a chapter didn't want to give him up. It also bears mentioning that giving up a battle brother means losing his gene-seed, and that many chapters have a few secrets they don't want the Inquisition to know. Then there is the fact that, outside of the Deathwatch and Grey Knights, no Astartes is likely to have enough interaction with the Inquisition to have a realistic chance of making Inquisitor.

[Grey Mage]

A Blackshield might be able to be an inquisitor.

[Something Wycked]

@ Chengar - I refer you to the hypothetical situation in the first post :P But I suppose I will be adding, with each successive objection, additional stipulations to the hypothetical.

 

Lets assume that this Astartes belongs to a Second Founding or newer Chapter that has close ties with the Inquisition. This particular Astartes has served in the Deathwatch for an extended period of time and was seconded to an Inquisitor, on demand of said Inquisitor, in a time of great need and performed admirably. Now let's insert the event that his Chapter suffers a catastrophic event, like that suffered by the Crimson Fists, whereby the Chapter is all but annihilated. Unlike the Crimson Fists, however, the Chapter is not held together and is disbanded, its members shuffled to other Chapters, its armory divided up similarly.

 

This particular Astartes, having extensive time serving with the Inquisition, has a "benefactor" (Administratum, High Lords, Ecclesiarchy, Inquisition?) recommend his elevation to the rank of Inquisitor rather than be folded into another Chapter.

 

Let us suppose that this Astartes we have picked in our hypothetical situation is at least of Captain ability, if not rank; further, that he is no Arjac Rockfist or Ragnar Blackmane, but closer to Cato Sicarius in intellect and skills.

 

Admittedly, this potential Astartes Inquisitor would attract a large amount of attention if he were to attempt any undercover invesitgations, even without wearing his armor. This necessity will affect his modus operandi in this way: investigations would have to be carried out through a small core of very talented, very trusted henchmen. This Astartes Inquisitor would need a henchman to be his "face" in places he did not wish his presence known.

[Chengar Qordath]

@ Chengar - I refer you to the hypothetical situation in the first post :P But I suppose I will be adding, with each successive objection, additional stipulations to the hypothetical.

As I said in my previous post, a Marine of Captain-level ability is an extremely valuable commodity, and one that other chapters have a far better claim to than the Inquisition.

 

A Blackshield might be able to be an inquisitor.

True; there would certainly be fewer political entanglements involved with an Inquisitor nabbing a Blackshield. Watch Commanders aren't so reflexively territorial as Chapter Masters, and even a skilled Blackshield would be viewed with a degree of wariness.

[Something Wycked]

As I said in my previous post, a Marine of Captain-level ability is an extremely valuable commodity, and one that other chapters have a far better claim to than the Inquisition.

I read your post rather differently than what your reply states, but I'll take it. However:

 

Unless our hypothetical Astartes' destroyed Chapter had particularly close ties with one other Chapter (such as their parent Chapter from the founding) I don't see that any random Chapter has a stronger claim than the Inquisition. But let's take it a step further-

 

What if our Astartes does not want to join any of the other Chapters who are "bidding" for his services?

What if he has personal dislike for the one who "wins" through political clout?

What if, through his extensive time alongside the Inquisition, he puts forth his preference of joining the Inquisition in some capacity?

What if our Astartes' "benefactor" (whoever they might be) has more political clout than the assorted random Chapters that want him in their ranks, and can overrule their "bids" for his services?

 

Edit: New text added with bold.

 

Lets assume that this Astartes belongs to a Second Founding or newer Chapter that has close ties with the Inquisition. This particular Astartes has served in the Deathwatch for an extended period of time and was seconded to an Inquisitor, on demand of said Inquisitor, in a time of great need and performed admirably. Now let's insert the event that his Chapter suffers a catastrophic event, like that suffered by the Crimson Fists, whereby the Chapter is all but annihilated. Unlike the Crimson Fists, however, the Chapter is not held together and is disbanded, its members shuffled to other Chapters, its armory divided up similarly.

 

Let us suppose that this Astartes we have picked in our hypothetical situation is at least of Captain ability, if not rank; further, that he is no Arjac Rockfist or Ragnar Blackmane, but closer to Cato Sicarius in intellect and skills.

 

This particular Astartes, having extensive time serving with the Inquisition, has a "benefactor" (Administratum, High Lords, Ecclesiarchy, Inquisition?) recommend his elevation to the rank of Inquisitor rather than be folded into another Chapter. Political strings are pulled by the benefactors, blocking bids from Chapters who request the Astartes be added to their Chapter with the other remnants of his old Chapter.

 

The potential Astartes Inquisitor would attract a large amount of attention if he were to attempt any undercover invesitgations, even without wearing his armor. This issue will affect his modus operandi in this way: investigations would have to be carried out through a small core of very talented, very trusted henchmen. This Astartes Inquisitor would need a henchman to be his "face" in places he did not wish his presence known.

[Brother-Chaplain Kage]

So there's really no point in talking to you about this, as you already have your mind made up and won't listen to anything anyone else says. Lesson learned.

[Something Wycked]

Am I not listening? I'm coming up with a very specific, very limited set of circumstances in which it would be possible, influenced by everyone's objections. I haven't yet heard anything that would definitively eliminate the possibility.

 

If nothing else, take it as character background creation for a Deathwatch RPG NPC Inquisitor.

[Master Of Malfeasance X]

An astartes Inquisitor would be an awesome tool of the Inquisition. An immortal warrior who could make plans over an incredible length of time and amass a truly massive amount of resources he could bring to bear for his ordo.

[Chengar Qordath]

Am I not listening? I'm coming up with a very specific, very limited set of circumstances in which it would be possible, influenced by everyone's objections. I haven't yet heard anything that would definitively eliminate the possibility.

Which is a fair point; while there are a lot of reasons an Astartes inquisitor is unlikely, there is nothing I am aware of that makes it flat-out impossible.

[Brother Captain Ed]

Astartes are exceptional individuals. Inquisitors are exceptional individuals. But they are exceptional for different reasons. The difference in calling between the two is vast. I'm far more inclined to see an Inquisitor "acquiring" a blackshield and having an incredibly useful tool than trying to make a Space Marine into an Inquisitor.

 

I don't think it's impossible. But I would raise an eyebrow. The practical difficulties of a Marine doing anything but..uh...Marining(?) would be rough. But to be an actual Inquisitor requires a huge leap. I'd say the Inquisition would have to get this particular Marine at the conclusion of his time in the tenth company and still be a couple hundred years of training removed from such an actuality.

[Master Of Malfeasance X]

I read a description of Rogue Traders, I want to say in 3rd edition BRB stating that periodically, for political reasons, warrants of trade are handed to both Inquisitors and Space marines. I have never seen a description of an Astartes Rogue Trader. If you could have an Astartes Rogue Trader, why not make one an Inquisitor?

[Brother-Chaplain Kage]

Easy answer: If they could be, why wouldn't ALL Inquisitors be Astartes? Why not get a jump ahead of the pack with a superhuman body?

 

And I even used a pretty pink ribbon to tie that one up for you! :)

[Prathios]

Easy answer: If they could be, why wouldn't ALL Inquisitors be Astartes? Why not get a jump ahead of the pack with a superhuman body?

 

And I even used a pretty pink ribbon to tie that one up for you! :)

 

And yet you are still completely wrong. It would be an odd and tiny chance of occurring but there is ZERO reason that a marine could not become an inquisitor. It is likely that a marine like Nathaniel Garro who is of Inquisitive nature founded the order during the Horus Heresy (or was rather, one of the four founders). The books even hint that this is exactly what happened. I'd put my knowledge of 40k against anyone in the trade and I can find no grounds for saying that an inquisitor marine is impossible. It is unlikely but not impossible. This means that it has probably already happened once or twice in ten thousand years. Especially considering a black shields background fluff.

 

I also find it laughable that so many people think that marine training and indoctrination eliminates the qualities that make humans, human. Marines are just as inquisitive, ingenious, and imaginative as anyone else. The thing that makes them superhuman and different is their physical bodies and enhanced minds. They think faster and have to sleep less often. I pity the heretic that would have an inquisition marine following them around. After all, Cipher has been outwitting the Inquisition for ten thousand years.

 

The question you posed by Kage, that if it was possible they all would be marines, shows a flagrant disregard for the process it takes to become a marine. 99% of inquisitors that tried it would die in the process and then the Imperium would have none. One becomes a marine first under incredible circumstances, one does not elect to undergo the process of becoming one. Marines are selected for compatibility with gene seed and warrior ability.

 

Go for it Wycked, just keep in mind the uniqueness of the individual and give him a stellar background story. If anyone gives you trouble over it simply ask them to prove it can't happen. They will not have an answer. The highest likelihood would be to have the marine serve in the retinue because of good relations with the inquisitor then have the inquisitor die while the marine is serving him, the marine would only have to take up the workload and bingo, marine inquisitor. It would also fit the back-story if you have him be a black shield for whatever reason rather than his chapter obliterated, or both...

[Something Wycked]

XD So there I was, gearing up to reply to Kage, and then I read Prathios' post. Well written, sir. Better than I could have.

 

I read a description of Rogue Traders, I want to say in 3rd edition BRB stating that periodically, for political reasons, warrants of trade are handed to both Inquisitors and Space marines. I have never seen a description of an Astartes Rogue Trader. If you could have an Astartes Rogue Trader, why not make one an Inquisitor?

Any chance you could dredge up a quote for me on this one? That's particularly interesting.

[Brother-Chaplain Kage]

Nope, still wrong. With as big a cash cow as marines are, both in terms of figures and novels, with Inquisition books coming in a close second, why not combine the two? Because it screams in the face of the fluff. That right there, that GW hasn't jumped on the idea to make money from it is all the proof you need it can't/won't/will never happen.

 

But, again, Wycked will only hear what he wants to, so anything anyone else says to the contrary he'll find ridiculous ways to look around it and still insist that it's not only possible, but makes sense.

 

Which it doesn't.

 

*Edit*

 

Oh boy, now we're going to Rogue Trader references? Yeah... way to shoot any shred of your credibility in the foot.

[Prathios]

Nope, still wrong. With as big a cash cow as marines are, both in terms of figures and novels, with Inquisition books coming in a close second, why not combine the two? Because it screams in the face of the fluff. That right there, that GW hasn't jumped on the idea to make money from it is all the proof you need it can't/won't/will never happen.

 

But, again, Wycked will only hear what he wants to, so anything anyone else says to the contrary he'll find ridiculous ways to look around it and still insist that it's not only possible, but makes sense.

 

Which it doesn't.

 

*Edit*

 

Oh boy, now we're going to Rogue Trader references? Yeah... way to shoot any shred of your credibility in the foot.

 

"Goes against the fluff"

 

How?

 

Sources and reasons. Not just random opinion. I just told you that a marine likely founded the inquisition. You have no basis to stand on.

[Oiad]

Darn I dislike how topics speed away when asleep.

 

To the question I'd say in M41 it's not exactly impossible, but extremely unlikely. It would have to be some very unique situation, suitable only for a character of sorts. Even then it would be very difficult to justify. You're best bet is to involve/create a chapter that has close ties with the Inquisition, like the Exorcists, the Red Hunters and of course the Grey Knights. According to older fluff, one the Grey Knight Grand Masters (most likely the SGM) had a seat on the Conclave of the Inquisition. He wouldn't be an Inquisitor per se but would surely maintain the strongest bond between the Ordos and his chapter.

 

Forgoing that there are Inquisitors with marine-like qualities. Hector Rex is said to have undergone much of the surgical procedures that marines undergo. He's effectively a marine without the mindset although his current profile does not do his fluff justice. I don't think an Inquisitor with similar stature and a duty to investigate or maintain ties with Astartes is asking too much. Anything further is asking for hassle off the fluffmongers.

[Chengar Qordath]

The question you posed by Kage, that if it was possible they all would be marines, shows a flagrant disregard for the process it takes to become a marine. 99% of inquisitors that tried it would die in the process and then the Imperium would have none. One becomes a marine first under incredible circumstances, one does not elect to undergo the process of becoming one. Marines are selected for compatibility with gene seed and warrior ability.

Not to mention that gene-seed has to be implanted at a relatively young age, generally during the teenage years.

[confused_gordy]

Its simple really:

 

Although highly unlikely, there is no cannon (in this case black library inclusive) reason a space marine cannot be elevated to the rank of inquisitor.

 

Reasons against include.

A space marines unlikely-hood of having the correct mentality (countered by the concept of successful space marine commanders/librarians, in this case I particularly like wolf blades as candidates)

A desire for a chapter to not give up these individuals (countered by the possibility of the chapter being wiped, or of the chapter having close enough ties with the inq, to considerer it an honour, or not in favour with their current chapter and being hidden away a little from internal politics (man I love the wolfblade in the space wolf omnibuses lol))

 

Ok so two reasons we can easily counter.

So there isn't a problem, all we need as the OP and several other have suggested is an exceptional individual and exceptional circumstances.

 

It just so happens we are operating in the parameters of a fantastical futuristic galaxy, consisting of thousands, if not millions of worlds, and other locations, in which such individuals can, and probably do exist (note this is a universe where such beings as the emperor can exist).

 

Finally, telling someone that such an individual cannot exist goes against the one fundamental of any fantasy setting (and hobby in general), we all take part in this, for fun! And we should never ever attempt to infringe on another's sense of fun within such an environment. (as long of their concept of fun is not murdering innocents, etc)

[Dremen]

The question becomes "What makes an Inquisitor good at what he does?"

 

To me an Inquisitorial Candidate must show:

-A strong, nigh unyeilding faith in the God Emperor of Mankind, which all Space Marines Posses

-Strong Constitution, self explanitory

-A tactical mind (Including but not limited to subterfuge), Space Marines are taught from indoctrination to be such (Including use of stealth and subtlty as pointed out by the myriad of fluff sources, most notably Kavian Shrike and his "Shadow" Company)

-The ability to command obediance from the men and women of the Imperium, to the normal man an Astartes is a DIVINE being, seconded to the Emperor himself

 

This is mearly the short version of a much longer list of why a Marine would make a good candidate for the Inquisition. Now opposed to this is the Training rate, Loyalty to ones Chapter, and the Attrition of Inquisitors as a whole. The OP, however, has made it abundantly clear that this is a very rare occurance. There is NO evidence whatsoever that a Marine cannot be an Inquisitor. In the Cases of the Ordo Hereticus I'd claim that a Librarian would be an VERY fine candidate as thier own unique skills would be a boon in rooting out the Witch.

 

@OP: If this is an idea for a real model/army I'd be very interested to follow it as you develop a more in depth plot and finished product. Opposed, if it is mearly a mental exercise, well done sir.

 

@Brother Chaplain Kage: Absence of Proof is not Proof of Absence. Simply because GW has not released any such person in either fluff nor model does not mean that it is not in the realm of possibility. Simply saying "No that cant happen" and providing no plausable reasoning as to why is not contributing to the discussion.