Grey Knight Fever

[Lord Captain Sam]

It seems like there's a ton of new GK armies on the rise. I was thinking about jumping on the bandwagon; now, I think I'll try and shoot the wagon's wheels off.

 

What would you say is the anti-GK army and why?

[Guest Drunk Guardian]

Imperial Guard - hard to deal with the massed ranged firepower unless you tailor your list specifically to get in their face immediately.

[BlitzKampf]

Can second that, was playing around with a small list this weekend vs. guard. Ugly...

[Brother Captain Kezef]

An AP2 based DE force is a serious threat. All their blaster/Dark Lance weapons are Str8 AP2 so will insta-frag our paladins and HQs.

 

They have high init and they can rig their HQ's to wound on 2+ with power weapon attacks. Their high init negates the Halberd advantage in many of their units aswell.

[Lord Captain Sam]

Those were the two I was thinking of as well. The question is ethics: how big a dick move is it to tailor an anti-FOTM army?

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Dark Eldar are going to have their fancy skimmers wrecked, then get torrented to death. The only things in their army which strike as fast or faster than halberds are HQ's, Wyches and two-pain token Incubi. Sure if they reach combat, things even out a little bit, but we're still Marines, and they get no FNP or armour, and we wound them all on 3's by default (Hammerhand just makes their day even worse). Talos are a joke, squish a few Marines then get hammer to the face+ID'd off the table. Pyscannons are going to make them cry, it kills all their best units so hard.

 

The best armies for defeating Knights are Space Wolves, Black Templars and Imperial Guard.

Space Wolves have Rune Priests to screw with our powers, their Grey Hunters are more plentiful than our handful of Knights and will outfight you in close-combat (due to uber-Grit), Long Fangs eat all our armour handily. Cheap armour everywhere will overload our psycannons and handful of real anti-tank (lascannons and melta). They'll just swamp your dudes in combat until you get dragged down.

 

Templars are insanely good vs everyone in close-combat. Against Knights, their re-rolls to hit mean Strike Squads are useless, Purifiers barely pull ahead with halberds and 'Cleansing Flame' to clear out the ablative Neophytes. Unkillable Landraider Crusaders as dedicated transports is insane, again it overtaxes our psycannon and limited 'true' anti-tank. Tack on 'Tank Hunting' CML Tactical Terminators, Assault Terminators with built-in 'Furious Charge' and re-rolls to hit/wound on lightning claws, Emperor's Champion killing Librarians and Grandmasters handily...it'll be another bloody close-quarters brawl.

 

Imperial Guard will just shoot you to death. MSU Knights are especially vulnerable to Guard, hence my lack of conviction they'll stand up in competitive play (MSU is done a thousand times better by BA and SW). They also largely don't care about out fancy close-combat gear, as they expect their infantry to evapourate in close-combat. AV12 will be everywhere, as will be plasma and meltaguns, and Russes blow apart Knights with impunity (and can have plasma cannon sponsons to still threaten Terminator squads).

[Daedalus Templarius]

Psyrifle dreads spell doom for IG chimeras, on any armor side. I took out 3 in my last game plus a vendetta on the first turn. In melee guardsmen definitely evaporate, just need to make sure you get them there so they don't rapid-fire you with plasma death.

 

While a battle cannon can surely be quick death for PAGK, you still get a 2+ terminator save against it, and it can't scratch a landraider. Plasma sponsons are pretty nasty though. What should I tell the guard player I play against all the time to take against me to beat me? He didn't even follow force org at all last time(took like 5 Lemans, 4 chims, 1 medusa, 1 hellhound, 1 vendetta in 2500pts) and I still rolled him up pretty badly.

[number6]

With the GK's dependence on psyker powers, Eldar -- especially with Eldrad -- can really ruin a GK army's day, too.

 

Otherwise, I agree that the most difficult matchups are SW, IG, and BT.

 

That said, the codex is good enough that a balanced, all-comer's list can still compete with all of these foes.

[Daedalus Templarius]

With the GK's dependence on psyker powers, Eldar -- especially with Eldrad -- can really ruin a GK army's day, too.

 

Did an Apoc game with eldar on the other team, Runes of Warding made me fail so many psychic tests it wasn't even funny.

[Joasht]

Its a Space Marine army........with less Space Marines. That said anything that excels at killing Space Marines would generally have a good time.

[Lord Captain Sam]

So what's a good Space Marine killer army?

[StormTAG]

IG with Plasma spam will do it. Go Infantry/Russes and he won't have enough shots to kill all your dudes or enough Psycannons to kill all your tanks. Demolishers will be handy because he has to get into the 24" range anyway. Some suicide squads to disable the vehicles means he has to slog his way across the table only to get rapid fire plasma'd to death. Lascannons and Autocannons can put the fear of Guard into Dreads.

 

Fast and flighty stuff that has good enough armor to avoid getting Str5'd to death will be nice too. Eldar Serpent spam for example. He'll have even less models than you, so you can focus on picking apart his units with your superior agility. Just make sure you blow up his Dreads straight away.

[Judanas]

Plugging another inquisition group, Sisters.

 

Divine Guidance make a mess of Terminators, especially without access to a better ranged Inv Save than 5+.

 

Exorcists can wipe those pesky dreads off the table pretty fast, and lets you laugh at dreadknights like a looney.

 

A Cannoness can tick off an entire squad even better here than most of the time as all force weapons means that she is getting a lot more bang for your buck with Spirit of the Martyr and Shield of Faith.

 

They are probebly not as good as guard at it but Sisters are a very good army for making the new Grey Knight sad.

[Inquisitor Fox]

There is the fact too that Sisters are immune to force weapons instagib :P This makes the heroine really the anti-GK character killer with Spirit of the Martyr.

[Angelis Mortis]

Imperial Guard - hard to deal with the massed ranged firepower unless you tailor your list specifically to get in their face immediately.

 

Or just pie plate spam IG. They aren't all that bad if you know what your doing.

[Lord Captain Sam]

Imperial Guard - hard to deal with the massed ranged firepower unless you tailor your list specifically to get in their face immediately.

 

Or just pie plate spam IG. They aren't all that bad if you know what your doing.

 

Are you saying the IG are spamming pie plates?

[Daedalus Templarius]

I'll have to admit, pie plate spamming IG has had limited success against me with any of my SM armies. Maybe I need to fight someone who spams them better?

[Fredegar Kadere]

I will put my vote on Witch Hunters being the ultimate anti-Grey Knight army. The Sororitas treat force weapons as a power weapon, though odds are a T3 Palatine/Canoness will still be instagibbed by hit, and are naturally resilient to psychic powers that affect them.

 

If tailoring for an opponent then:

1) Superiors can be given Bolter-stake Crossbows which, while one-use, will wound any Grey Knight model on a 2+ and kill them if out of cover.

2) An Inquisitor Lord with Psychic Hood, Hammer of the Witches, and a Power Stake will deny most psyker powers with its unlimited range, cause plenty of perils tests for the Grey Knights, and deal a hurting if he happens to get engaged.

3) The Witch Hunters version of the Culexus assassin will cause the Grey Knights Culexus to run in fear. He can Infiltrate deep into enemy territory, lowers all models in 12" to leadership 7, causes ALL psykers within 6" to run on a failed test, and in combat against a Psyker he is guaranteed to tear things up. It can debated that units with a Book of St Lucius ignore the Culexus' Soulless rule, making a largely Sororitas army immune to the ld 7 drawback.

 

If tailoring for an all-comers list then:

1) An Inquisitor Lord with Psychic Hood and Hammer of the Witches will deny most psyker powers with its unlimited range and cause plenty of perils tests for large groups of psyker opponents.

2) The Witch Hunters version of the Calidus or Eversor assassin. Situational, but both can put a hurting on any units that rely on a good armour save to keep them alive.

[Spacefrisian]

Necrons led by the Nightbringer can pretty much destroy a GK greatest asset of cc. How nice of you to have basic S of 4, youll be pushed back 2d6, no charge for ya.

[dublindawg]

There is the fact too that Sisters are immune to force weapons instagib ;) This makes the heroine really the anti-GK character killer with Spirit of the Martyr.

 

This might be why GK's sacrifice the Sisters on the alters. One less threat to worry about.

[Decoy]

Throw another line of Space Wolves into the mix. I've played against the new GK in almost thirty games against multiple opponents. The worst result I've had against them is losing about half my army at the expense of all of theirs. The Plasmaguns, Hunters, Long Fangs, Lasplas, various Priest powers, abundance of P-fists and S5 PWs, large amounts of Storm Shields... The only real thing that the Wolves have that performs poorly against Gray Knights is Thunderwolves, really. Everything else just wrecks GK face.

[Daedalus Templarius]

How would GKs combat SW effectively?

 

Hopefully the unlimited range psychic muzzles will get changed in updated codicies, lol. I guess I enjoyed it while I was playing DH...

[Inquisitor Fox]

I would (having played Space Wolves with my Sisters but not my Grey Knights) go with the same attitude I always have...

 

Shoot the choppy ones, chop the shooty ones ;)

 

We have near unprecidented firepower on the move, with every gun being an assault weapon on our basic troopers (I mean, who uses psilencers? Yeah, that's what I thought too...) which means we have a superior ranged attack. Units in melee cannot shoot (I'm lookin' at you, Longfangs!) so that's the best way to tie them up and deal with them. Otherwise keep your mind on the mission objectives, utilize all your means of transport, deployment, movement and teleporation shennanigans to keep the initiative and the battle going your way.

 

We are not a simple army, we are a thinkers army that needs to go in with a plan and cunning. But if we do that, there's no single army that would be our undoing that I can think of ;) Some battles may be tougher than others simply because well.. a good opponent is a good opponent, and a well balanced army is a well balanced army. But there's no reason to fold your hand and walk away from the table either.

[Decoy]

Honestly, the only way to really combat Wolves is to get in close combat with us and pray we don't have a character in there somewhere. Logan, Ulrik and Ragnar all give massive CC bonuses, and a standard Gray squad, after rapidfiring an equally sized Grey Knight Paladin squad, will statistically almost always come out on top. Wolves will win in the Long Range battle, and unless you can swamp the entire Wolf army at once with every unit in your list, there's a good chance that it won't end well for you.

 

Honestly, I don't know how GK can combat the Wolves effectively. I've never lost against y'all yet, and nothing any of my opponents has tried has even come close to beating me.

[Grey Mage]

He didn't even follow force org at all last time(took like 5 Lemans, 4 chims, 1 medusa, 1 hellhound, 1 vendetta in 2500pts) and I still rolled him up pretty badly.

Thats legal, and in the FOC- 3 heavies, 4 troops-maybe elties- 2 FA.

 

Against wolves the Rhino-army is going to work best, deepstriking and summoning buts GKs right in our teeth- wich is exacly where we want them. GKs have a short killy range, mostly, and SWs are in the same boat- with more dakka.

 

However, to the OP: Id say its not a 'douche move' to tailor your list a bit in a GK heavy environment, but Ill say this: dont pick an entire army just for killing GKs. Youll get bored, quickly, between having an army you dont like an opponents wholl likely leave the GKs behind in 4-6 months.

 

My Eldar, footslogging mostly, have been roughing up alot of GKs. Runes of Warding explodes alot of heads, and their expensive heads to boot. Wraithgaurd are tough enough to take GK salvos and walk through to open up a can of black holes, and with a bit of ranged support there hasnt enough left after the dust clears to take my army down. This may change when they start bringing more TDA, but probly not. My main problem these days is the Dark Kin.