Grey Knight Fever

[HERO]

Vs. GKs, I would say that DE, Eldar and IG will be the toughest matchups.

 

DE with their speed and Night Shields should be extremely troublesome for a 24" based army.

Eldar because of their speed, anti-MEQ and Runes of Warding.

IG because they're IG and they erase marines from the table.

[Daedalus Templarius]

Well, 5 lemans wouldn't equal 3 heavy support slots unless he is putting them into squadrons (I don't think), which he wasn't. Each one takes a heavy support slot, doesn't it? Its his codex, I obviously don't have it.

 

Also, how do guard "erase marines from the table" so I can tell my friend to do that, since he always complains about me winning.

[Rybnick]

Also, how do guard "erase marines from the table" so I can tell my friend to do that, since he always complains about me winning.

I know very little about the IG codex, but if I had to venture a guess I'd say with their S8ap2 battlecannons, Chimeras full of Plasma guns toting veterans (seriously Chimeras have way too many fire points), Vendettas full of plasma veterans (I think Vendetta is the transport one), and plasma cannon sponsons on leman russ tanks. That's all that come to mind off the tope of my head and these are all rather common units I see in local IG lists.

[HERO]

Also, how do guard "erase marines from the table" so I can tell my friend to do that, since he always complains about me winning.

I know very little about the IG codex, but if I had to venture a guess I'd say with their S8ap2 battlecannons, Chimeras full of Plasma guns toting veterans (seriously Chimeras have way too many fire points), Vendettas full of plasma veterans (I think Vendetta is the transport one), and plasma cannon sponsons on leman russ tanks. That's all that come to mind off the tope of my head and these are all rather common units I see in local IG lists.

 

Or Marbo, or cheap lascannon support, or demo packs in general, or CCS w/ Plasma in a Chimera that forces you to re-roll all cover saves, or PBS in a Chimera that forces you to run like little girls cause you're no longer fearless, oh the list goes on.

 

24" is a bad place to be vs. a good IG player. 36" is bad too. Actually, 48" is also pretty bad. And you don't have anything that shoots over that, but they do, so yeah, that's bad too.

[Daedalus Templarius]

Battle cannons are S8 AP3, I believe. While that will melt power armor, probably won't scratch terminators. Chimeras filled with melta and plasma I agree with, I've lost plenty of terminators to that, which is why I love this new Psyrifle dread, which can pop those things from across the field. Plasma sponsons are nasty, but they won't scratch a Landraider, and neither will a battlecannon really.

 

My Landraiders must be super tough, they almost always get me to where I need to go in all the games I've played, even with all kinds of fire slamming into them.

 

CSS? RBS?

[HERO]

Battle cannons are S8 AP3, I believe. While that will melt power armor, probably won't scratch terminators. Chimeras filled with melta and plasma I agree with, I've lost plenty of terminators to that, which is why I love this new Psyrifle dread, which can pop those things from across the field. Plasma sponsons are nasty, but they won't scratch a Landraider, and neither will a battlecannon really.

 

My Landraiders must be super tough, they almost always get me to where I need to go in all the games I've played, even with all kinds of fire slamming into them.

 

CSS? RBS?

 

It is S8 AP3 :cuss

IG is beat-able for marine-players, definitely. It all depends on the list for the most part, but Mech IG is a uphill fight for you all the way.

 

It all depends on the list at the end of the day. A Mech IG Steel Legion player can talk about his fluff all day but at the end of the day, if you're not configured to beat all that armor, you've got some problems coming your way.

 

PBS = Psyker Battle Squad

CCS = Company Command Squad

 

edit: had some typos, was typing in a rush

[Grey Mage]

Battle cannons are S8 AP3, I believe. While that will melt power armor, probably won't scratch terminators. Chimeras filled with melta and plasma I agree with, I've lost plenty of terminators to that, which is why I love this new Psyrifle dread, which can pop those things from across the field. Plasma sponsons are nasty, but they won't scratch a Landraider, and neither will a battlecannon really.

 

My Landraiders must be super tough, they almost always get me to where I need to go in all the games I've played, even with all kinds of fire slamming into them.

 

CSS? RBS?

Battle canons arent- but executioner plasmacannons are. 5 PC shots per tank is pretty impressive...

 

Then theres demolishers, and Medusas, and of course the deathstrike missile.

 

And lets not forget Democharges- thats an AP 2 Large Blast that any vet squad can throw out. Lascannon heavy weapon teams, etc.

 

No, IG do not lack in things to kill terminators with. Its a rare IG player who doesnt bring an executioner around here- if your friends IG is having problems with killing marines he should pick one up.

[skarn]

GK can hang with anyone. I'm not sure how BT are better in combat than halberd purifiers, so;

 

OX Inq (conversion beamer) = 70

Crowe = 150

vindicare = 145

5 x 5 purifiers (2 psycannons, 1 hammer, 2 halberds, psyback) @204 = 1020

2 x 5 purgation (3 psycannons, psyback) @ 210 = 420

1 x 5 purgation (2 psycannons, psyback) @ 190 = 190

 

1995

 

I think this list, whilst spammy, expensive to buy and aesthetically bland, would easily hang with anything the wolves, ig or de could come up with.

[Grey Mage]

Mostly the problem with that list, and list like it, is that it has almost no durability for a marine army and its depth in bodies is minimal.

 

IE- your men and tanks are going to die, this is a fact of life. Theres nothing there to slow that down and there hasnt been an increase in wounds to balance it out. Psybacks lay out a decent amount of firepower, but at the same time are vulnerable to anything beyond their 36" range- they can move, slowly, and shoot but your counting on first turn to be able to even scratch light armor and slow down the destruction of your transports.

 

Any marine not in a transport against an army with decent firepower is going to die quickly. Theres a reason codex-players rarely combat squad their marines.

 

A fairly standard tournament list for wolves with 2x2 Typhoons and 2x5 ML Longfangs at 1850-2k is going to laugh at that. And then their grey hunters are going to enjoy shooting you as you close with them. The vindcaire is scary, as always, but hes not enough to carry the list- and god forbid your facing someone with a Whirlwind. Or Drop Podding dreads....

 

I wont even begin with the issues that kind of list has with my standard DP fare. :S

 

But mostly I think theres something wrong with your math- 5 Purifiers is 120... warger you show there is 29, and psyback is 45- wich gives 194pts. The purgations are 205.... and the last one is 185. Thats an extra 65pts you can use to..... get 2 more GKs, 3 of you put them in purgation squads. It would help- every body counts.

[skarn]

Thanks for correcting my math; i'm at work atm so was doing it off memory. :P

 

The list is simply standard MSU: you drop something in, you might kill 1 unit if you are lucky, more likely you will just destroy its transport. next turn everything in my list is targeting you. how long are longfangs going to stand up to 28 astro aiming psycannon shots, the vindie, the conversion beam etc? And why would i close with your GH? At 12-20 inches GH are lame, GK are not, so you either have to get closer to me, or you have to get back beyond 24 inches. Which again isn't the strong point of the wolves. In my experience the DE and IG are both far harder matchups for the GK than the SW or BA.

 

But hey, I didn't say it was an autowin. I still think it is more than competitive, and judging by how similar this list is to this one at YTTH, I'm not the only one;

http://yesthetruthhurts.com/2011/04/crowe-minmaxed/

[bigwarbosss]

Eldar, DE, SW and Guard.

[Spacefrisian]

Thinking about the DE idea a list with Malys can screw a GK list before its starts. Deploy in 2 places so the GK players can either focus on 1 part and be pummeled from long range by the other or divide his army thus weakening overall. Malys than uses her powers to move units to 1 side.

 

Not sure if her immune to Psychics works vs Force weapons if so that would make her gold vs GK (that would be wishfull thinking i guess)

[Grey Mage]

Thanks for correcting my math; i'm at work atm so was doing it off memory. :rolleyes:

 

The list is simply standard MSU: you drop something in, you might kill 1 unit if you are lucky, more likely you will just destroy its transport. next turn everything in my list is targeting you. how long are longfangs going to stand up to 28 astro aiming psycannon shots, the vindie, the conversion beam etc? And why would i close with your GH? At 12-20 inches GH are lame, GK are not, so you either have to get closer to me, or you have to get back beyond 24 inches. Which again isn't the strong point of the wolves. In my experience the DE and IG are both far harder matchups for the GK than the SW or BA.

 

But hey, I didn't say it was an autowin. I still think it is more than competitive, and judging by how similar this list is to this one at YTTH, I'm not the only one;

http://yesthetruthhurts.com/2011/04/crowe-minmaxed/

YTTH is, in my opinion, a horrible reference. I have lost most of my faith in your idea just from finding out its from stelek.

 

At 12-24" is a GHs sweet spot. GHs are knife fighters, just as much as the entire GK army is. And unlike GKs, GHs have the ability to take ranged weaponry that will cut through the armor of opposing marines by taking plasmaguns. Not only that, but they are backed up by impressive fire from Dreads, Speeders, and Long Fangs. While Psy-dreads do have an impressive number of shots they simply cant deal with as many targets as long fangs can, nor can they be augmented by additional long range fire from your elite choices.

 

On average a pair of Long Fang squads with missile launchers/lascannons will take out 3 rhino transpots in a turn, immobilised or destroyed. Adding in a pair of razorbacks gives us another, and two typhoon squads usually takes out another each. Thats five dead transports- or more than half your lists mobility and almost all of its long-ranged firepower. A whirlwind will start the punishment on exposed squads or target that vindicaire early, GHs just have to line up and await your closing- because if you dont youll be pounded into oblivion by long range firepower. By the time your in range that list will have lost about half its numbers *Ie by the end of turn 2* and the turn after it begins laying into the hunters the return fire will likely be more viscious because of 1) better numbers, 2) plasma, 3) those long fangs/speeders wich are likely to still be slamming into squads. Not only that but the list remains an all-rounder so theres no reason not to take it to tournament, GKs or no.

 

Without fire support a list is dead. Its been like that since the invention of the atlatl and its introduction to warfare on the tribal level. Fire Support is what your lists needs, and in order to bring it youll need to sacrifice even more bodies. That many purifiers is killing the list, and the need for so many razorbacks puts the nails in the coffin.

[KnowThyEnemy]

Thanks for correcting my math; i'm at work atm so was doing it off memory. :)

 

The list is simply standard MSU: you drop something in, you might kill 1 unit if you are lucky, more likely you will just destroy its transport. next turn everything in my list is targeting you. how long are longfangs going to stand up to 28 astro aiming psycannon shots, the vindie, the conversion beam etc? And why would i close with your GH? At 12-20 inches GH are lame, GK are not, so you either have to get closer to me, or you have to get back beyond 24 inches. Which again isn't the strong point of the wolves. In my experience the DE and IG are both far harder matchups for the GK than the SW or BA.

 

But hey, I didn't say it was an autowin. I still think it is more than competitive, and judging by how similar this list is to this one at YTTH, I'm not the only one;

http://yesthetruthhurts.com/2011/04/crowe-minmaxed/

YTTH is, in my opinion, a horrible reference. I have lost most of my faith in your idea just from finding out its from stelek.

 

At 12-24" is a GHs sweet spot. GHs are knife fighters, just as much as the entire GK army is. And unlike GKs, GHs have the ability to take ranged weaponry that will cut through the armor of opposing marines by taking plasmaguns. Not only that, but they are backed up by impressive fire from Dreads, Speeders, and Long Fangs. While Psy-dreads do have an impressive number of shots they simply cant deal with as many targets as long fangs can, nor can they be augmented by additional long range fire from your elite choices.

 

On average a pair of Long Fang squads with missile launchers/lascannons will take out 3 rhino transpots in a turn, immobilised or destroyed. Adding in a pair of razorbacks gives us another, and two typhoon squads usually takes out another each. Thats five dead transports- or more than half your lists mobility and almost all of its long-ranged firepower. A whirlwind will start the punishment on exposed squads or target that vindicaire early, GHs just have to line up and await your closing- because if you dont youll be pounded into oblivion by long range firepower. By the time your in range that list will have lost about half its numbers *Ie by the end of turn 2* and the turn after it begins laying into the hunters the return fire will likely be more viscious because of 1) better numbers, 2) plasma, 3) those long fangs/speeders wich are likely to still be slamming into squads. Not only that but the list remains an all-rounder so theres no reason not to take it to tournament, GKs or no.

 

Without fire support a list is dead. Its been like that since the invention of the atlatl and its introduction to warfare on the tribal level. Fire Support is what your lists needs, and in order to bring it youll need to sacrifice even more bodies. That many purifiers is killing the list, and the need for so many razorbacks puts the nails in the coffin.

 

you seem to be implying that Long Fangs are your key to success. pretty standard id say for SW. what, pray tell, will you do should, i dunno...say...3 dreadknights pop up in your backyard :). there are counters to everything in this game. the fact that wolves list long fangs on there "must-take" list (i don't blame you, with their points cost and split fire ability youd be silly not to in a competative game) just means thats something GK players would have to plan for in a competative setting. and we have ways to counter them, interceptors and dreadknights just to name 2.

 

and for the predicted response of "o but we'll just shoot your dreadknights and interceptors", thats my point. you'll HAVE to deal with them, meaning you wont be shooting at those transports. because you don't want those precious fangs NOT shooting do you? :)

[DevianID]

Howdy all!

 

Without getting into heady math hammer, I want to say that like many others, the GK army is very beatable. The GKs, when pure, really only do 2 things... shoot psycannons and use powerweapons. While one would think this is amazing, in truth if your opponent uses local superiority then your in trouble.

 

Take the space wolves for example. The wolf player will try and kill your transports before being threatened by your close combat stuff, and if they took mass las/plas razors then the twin linked plasma will do a number on small GK squads. While you do have lots of very dangerous psycannons, in a purifier list those psycannons take away power weapon wounds, meaning the grey hunters can beat you more than half the time.

 

On the flipside, your dreads can kill their razors, and if you get the drop on a grey hunter squad that spilled out of a razor, then the psycannons can eat them up.

 

So neither side is clearly superior on paper, provided the general of both sides is equal in skill. In this situation the army with the most tricks usually wins. Now, the GKs only really get 1 trick, Grand Strategy, when taking a grand master. He is really good, what with his first turn assaults thanks to scout. He also costs quite a bit, BUT without the GKGM for tricks then your GK are simply playing a war of attrition on your opponents terms.

[Grey Mage]

and for the predicted response of "o but we'll just shoot your dreadknights and interceptors", thats my point. you'll HAVE to deal with them, meaning you wont be shooting at those transports. because you don't want those precious fangs NOT shooting do you? :)

Yeah, but Id be an idiot to shoot the long fangs at them- thats what 5 plasma shot toting GH packs are for my friend.

[Daedalus Templarius]

Dreadknights go down way too fast to plasma :)

[skarn]

YTTH is, in my opinion, a horrible reference. I have lost most of my faith in your idea just from finding out its from stelek.

YMMV I guess. I find YTTH an excellent reference, if you have a thick enough skin to deal with his tone of course.

 

At 12-24" is a GHs sweet spot.

Compared to GK? Really? GH are best at less than 12". Two plasmagun shots and 8 bolters compared to 16 stormbolter and 8 psycannon shots. You can talk about the LF and dreads, but you specifically said GH.

 

But it doesn't matter. We are never going to play each other, so if you think the SW are clearly superior to the GK, then good luck to you.

[Inquisitor Fox]

Ahem... why not simply deep strike one or two units right behind the Long Fangs, utilizing say, a Strike Squad or Interceptor squad... then annihilate them with 20 odd storm bolter shots to the face?

 

20 shots, roughly 13 hits, roughly 8 or 9 wounds (at str 5), roughly 3 dead Longfangs. The other two models can either pop a single transport, or turn to attempt to kill a single Grey Knight. The next turn the Grey Knights shoot again, or charge, your choice really.

 

Deep Strike is a viable deployment option besides pure all mechanization. It has it's uses, such as eliminating static firebases like Longfangs. That or a single Callidus... :D

[dublindawg]

Ahem... why not simply deep strike one or two units right behind the Long Fangs, utilizing say, a Strike Squad or Interceptor squad... then annihilate them with 20 odd storm bolter shots to the face?

 

20 shots, roughly 13 hits, roughly 8 or 9 wounds (at str 5), roughly 3 dead Longfangs. The other two models can either pop a single transport, or turn to attempt to kill a single Grey Knight. The next turn the Grey Knights shoot again, or charge, your choice really.

 

Deep Strike is a viable deployment option besides pure all mechanization. It has it's uses, such as eliminating static firebases like Longfangs. That or a single Callidus... ;)

 

 

Finally someone in this debate notes the merits of our units being able to deep strike. When I first looked at the Interceptor squads, I was like what's so great about a 1-time 30" jump, yeah it can get the unit to contest an object at the end of the game but they would have to first foot-slog across the field to get into CC. Then I when I re-read the entry I noticed they get to deep strike allowing them to drop right ontop of some enemy support units or command units and level them in a hail of fire.

[Inquisitor Fox]

I've been advocating use of deep strike since I've ever played Grey Knights (a few games under the last codex) or even thought about playing them, actually. I still argue that a mixture of deployment types (mechanization, foot slogging, and deep striking) is the way to go as it gives you lots of options and various types of threats. Myself I'll be going with Inquisitors and Retinues (2), Chimeras, deep striking Termies and Dreadknight, and a reserved Storm Raven I think. With Interceptors in it for pinpoint drops while moving flat out into a position to drop off it's psyammo Mortis pattern Dread and unload it's firepower ;)

 

BOTH of our basic Troops can deep strike, as well as our Fast Attack options, plus one or two of our Elites choice (Callidus kinda does). That's a lot compared to most armies, who cannot deep strike scoring units without Drop Pods at the best. We also can drop firepower right behind enemy static firebases while advancing our main force. This disrupts their anti-tank firepower from either still shooting our transports, or saving itself from imminent death and destruction. Oh, and since most firebases are also designed to hold or garrison an objective, we'll just go ahead and claim it or contest it by being within 3 inches too. How's them apples?

 

We have more options than just putting troops into a tin can and sniping one or two weapons out of it. That's how normal Astartes play. We are the Inquisition, since when have we played by other people's rules? ;)

[Grey Mage]

Indeed- my point was a Nemesis Dreadknight was a horrible unit to deepstrike by a SW firing line. Now, interceptor squads shunting and strike squads on the other hand will force a good number of wounds. The AP still isnt going to get it done, but assuming your opponent isnt lucky theres more value with the bodies than with the giants.

 

At 12-24" is a GHs sweet spot.

Compared to GK? Really? GH are best at less than 12". Two plasmagun shots and 8 bolters compared to 16 stormbolter and 8 psycannon shots. You can talk about the LF and dreads, but you specifically said GH.

 

But it doesn't matter. We are never going to play each other, so if you think the SW are clearly superior to the GK, then good luck to you.

Yes, Id argue that GHs have alot of things going for them over 12"- atleast the way I run a pack. At 12-18" they can walk forward and rapidfire, giving all the same advantages as being within 12". At 18-24" the ability to take weaponry that outright ignores a GKs armor save makes alot of difference. A lesson I learned playing eldar- if you have the option never give your opponent a save, ever. GKs largely max out at AP 4, wich means against other marines it just isnt an option, and that hinders them.

 

Of course they do get more shots, and in theory thats a great balancer- but were relying alot more on luck if expect psy-cannons to win the day. I have found GK shooting vs PA to do much more than soften up a target- the kills largely come from the powerweapons, and require decent numbers to really capitalize on that.

[Guest Drunk Guardian]

I've been advocating use of deep strike since I've ever played Grey Knights (a few games under the last codex) or even thought about playing them, actually. I still argue that a mixture of deployment types (mechanization, foot slogging, and deep striking) is the way to go as it gives you lots of options and various types of threats. Myself I'll be going with Inquisitors and Retinues (2), Chimeras, deep striking Termies and Dreadknight, and a reserved Storm Raven I think. With Interceptors in it for pinpoint drops while moving flat out into a position to drop off it's psyammo Mortis pattern Dread and unload it's firepower ;)

 

BOTH of our basic Troops can deep strike, as well as our Fast Attack options, plus one or two of our Elites choice (Callidus kinda does). That's a lot compared to most armies, who cannot deep strike scoring units without Drop Pods at the best. We also can drop firepower right behind enemy static firebases while advancing our main force. This disrupts their anti-tank firepower from either still shooting our transports, or saving itself from imminent death and destruction. Oh, and since most firebases are also designed to hold or garrison an objective, we'll just go ahead and claim it or contest it by being within 3 inches too. How's them apples?

 

We have more options than just putting troops into a tin can and sniping one or two weapons out of it. That's how normal Astartes play. We are the Inquisition, since when have we played by other people's rules?

 

http://blogs.ubc.ca/christopherlam/files/2010/11/bwavo.jpg

[Decoy]

Ahem... why not simply deep strike one or two units right behind the Long Fangs, utilizing say, a Strike Squad or Interceptor squad... then annihilate them with 20 odd storm bolter shots to the face?

 

20 shots, roughly 13 hits, roughly 8 or 9 wounds (at str 5), roughly 3 dead Longfangs. The other two models can either pop a single transport, or turn to attempt to kill a single Grey Knight. The next turn the Grey Knights shoot again, or charge, your choice really.

 

Deep Strike is a viable deployment option besides pure all mechanization. It has it's uses, such as eliminating static firebases like Longfangs. That or a single Callidus...

 

Mostly because a fair few Space Wolf players aren't retarded. That tactic might work against someone who's played for less than a few weeks, but against any competent Wolf player, their Long Fangs won't be out in the open or easily accessible.

 

In regards to your tactic... Even with three dead Long Fangs, the other two models can still Split Fire, still dropping two Transports per squad, while the Hunters turn and take out the Knight squad with a storm of ungodly-powerful Plasma tidal waves. Great. You've killed three fairly cheap models at the expense of an entire squad, and the Long Fang's anti-armor capacity is only mildly reduced. (Remember; Long Fangs can have five heavy weapons per squad plus one Sarge.)

 

 

 

Compared to GK? Really? GH are best at less than 12". Two plasmagun shots and 8 bolters compared to 16 stormbolter and 8 psycannon shots. You can talk about the LF and dreads, but you specifically said GH.

 

Yes, the Hunters will come out on top in that fight. I've engaged in it quite often, and I've yet to lose when it comes to a toe-to-toe fight. AP2>Anything you got. There's a reason Grey Hunters are acknowledged as the greatest Troops Choice in the game.

 

 

 

you seem to be implying that Long Fangs are your key to success. pretty standard id say for SW. what, pray tell, will you do should, i dunno...say...3 dreadknights pop up in your backyard smile.gif. there are counters to everything in this game. the fact that wolves list long fangs on there "must-take" list (i don't blame you, with their points cost and split fire ability youd be silly not to in a competative game) just means thats something GK players would have to plan for in a competative setting. and we have ways to counter them, interceptors and dreadknights just to name 2.

 

and for the predicted response of "o but we'll just shoot your dreadknights and interceptors", thats my point. you'll HAVE to deal with them, meaning you wont be shooting at those transports. because you don't want those precious fangs NOT shooting do you? smile.gif

 

I can't vouch for other Wolf lists, but in mine, you would be hard-pressed to get close to my Fangs. Surrounded by Hunters and Wolf Guard, there's rarely a clear path, and all it takes is spacing out the models enough so that there's nowhere to land with Interceptors or Dreadknights. It's similar to the same tactic I use against pieplate lists, and with a Rune Priest (or four) throwing down a continual 5+ save, Grey Knights just don't have the firepower at range to cut down Hunters and Long Fangs faster than I can cut down Grey Knights.

 

 

 

The problem, it seems, with the Grey Knights responding in terms of Wolves is that it appears you guys assume Wolf players are borderline braindead. The "Tactics" you offer are barely that, and are easily countered by even the most remotely tactically-minded Wolf player (read; Age 13+). With minimal long-range firepower to speak of, only a small amount of anti-tank, and a limited armor selection, anything "transport"based will easily be popped by turn two, if not turn one. (Preferably Turn Two, to be honest, as that dumps you out in front of our Grey Hunters and that lovely 12"-24" killzone.) Your Psychic Powers will only work half the time (if not less), your basic Troops squads cannot take a Grey Hunter squad with any reliable chance at winning (and even then, the Hunter squad costs half the points), and you have no answer to the vast amounts of Razorback often seen in most Wolf lists (Lasplas for the win. Or Assault Cannons if you're feeling frisky.) To put it bluntly, Wolves are the Knights worst nightmare. That's probably why I'm batting undefeated against them in over forty games, even with my GK enemies actively tailoring their lists to try to stop me. It just can't be done against a competent, intelligent Wolf player.

[CheezeFezt]

Also, how do guard "erase marines from the table" so I can tell my friend to do that, since he always complains about me winning.

 

In the hardboyz tourney in years previous, the IG "erase" marines by including demonhunters, namely mystics, to prevent DS spam.

 

If a quarter of the GK army get up close and personal, methink that's enough to wipe out the IG. At worse, half of the GK army should be do. Now, IG can't take demonhunter and GK can plant servo-skull. They just need to survive one round of shooting and thing get fun.