GK Strike Squads

[the jeske]

Are they listed as SCCWs under thier heading in the codex? (i honestly dont know)

arent they force weapons like all nemezis weapons and all force weapons are sccw ?

[greatcrusade08]

here we have a case of someone not reading the entire post... i accepted they were SCCW

[Brother Valerius]

This simply isn't as clear as you're insisting, GC08

If it is a grey area.. then which opinion should take precedence... wouldnt it be a little disrespectful to insist on the extra attack if its a grey area?

 

Yes, it would. I myself am not touching falchions with a ten foot pole until there is a FAQ. I think this is a case where the sporting thing to do is to accept the disadvantaged interpretation for yourself, whether that means treating your own falchions as +1A, or treating your opponent's as +2A.

[Abaddonshand]

They just strike me as being too cheap on paladins/ terminators/ purifiers to double their base attacks. A paladin with falchions costs 60pts, for a stat line that some characters would be envious of!

 

However, they strike me as too expensive for just 1 extra attack on strikes and interceptors, so it could go either way I guess. My real dilemma for lists is whether to put guns on my dreadknights or falchions on my interceptors :-(

 

There is a potential that if GW FAQed it to clarify 2 attacks for falchions, they may increase the cost on paladins/ purifiers/ terminators to meet this. I mean a terminator or paladin squad with falchions and banner means most of them will get 6 attacks each on the charge!

[Daedalus Templarius]

Will be running 5 man GKSS in a razorback w/ psy rounds for my next game. We'll see how it goes.

[Zhukov]

I am a competitive tourney player so I need lists that can beat the top armies. The old GK were not really a competitive army if you're honest with yourself. That's why I am looking at new ways to play the army that are now available with the new options. ;)

 

G :blush:

Well then start with taking rhinos and stop putting 50 points of extra gear on a unit which still gets beaten by elite assault units while they now just cause overkill on weaker units. Oh hey guess what: your survivability to shooting is still the same too. Result? You just made your army overpriced and get shot off the board by IG/Tau/Wolves because you spend points on a unit while you often don't get anything back for it.

 

Also: Calling yourself a 'competitive tourney player' leads to expectations from readers, are you sure you can hold up to those expectations?

 

 

Setup? Depends on the kind of army you want to run. In general you got 2 basic setups which are 'bases' where to build from:

 

-5 GKSS, psycannon, Razorback with psybolt. 160 points.

-10 GKSS, 2 psycannons, Rhino. 260 points.

 

Possible upgrades for the Razor version are taking a Las/Plas Razor or maybe, just maybe a Hammer on the justicar.

Possible upgrades for the Rhino version are Psybolt and a (MC) Hammer. Dozerblade on the rhino is an option too.

 

Pro-tip: Don't overload on gear, it makes your army imbalanced. Why? Because you specialize squads usually, while they keep the same defensive statline; so more points onto the same models while it doesn't increase your effectiveness against a wide range of targets. Upgrades like a Hammer increase your effectiveness against a lot of things for a relative small amount of points and therefore is always worth considering. Psybolt already gets more questionable...

 

But then this is a Codex with a few worthless options, Brother Captain, DreadKnight, Purgation Squad. It's just one of those things.

Ballsy to call those worthless. You can't make a list without Psyflemen, can you? ;) Worthless is a very black and white word... calling those non-optimal would make more sense already.

 

I notice that some people want to have things very clear, without any grey areas. Well maybe this might come as a shock to some but I say it nonetheless: GK's have quite some viable options, lots of more or less competitive choices and list setups. There isn't 1 'best' GKSS setup, nor are units like Dreadknights and Purgation squads 'worthless', maybe try harder to see why they can be good.

[TyrionTheImp]

I am a competitive tourney player so I need lists that can beat the top armies. The old GK were not really a competitive army if you're honest with yourself. That's why I am looking at new ways to play the army that are now available with the new options. ;)

 

G :blush:

Well then start with taking rhinos and stop putting 50 points of extra gear on a unit which still gets beaten by elite assault units while they now just cause overkill on weaker units. Oh hey guess what: your survivability to shooting is still the same too. Result? You just made your army overpriced and get shot off the board by IG/Tau/Wolves because you spend points on a unit while you often don't get anything back for it.

 

Also: Calling yourself a 'competitive tourney player' leads to expectations from readers, are you sure you can hold up to those expectations?

 

 

Setup? Depends on the kind of army you want to run. In general you got 2 basic setups which are 'bases' where to build from:

 

-5 GKSS, psycannon, Razorback with psybolt. 160 points.

-10 GKSS, 2 psycannons, Rhino. 260 points.

 

Possible upgrades for the Razor version are taking a Las/Plas Razor or maybe, just maybe a Hammer on the justicar.

Possible upgrades for the Rhino version are Psybolt and a (MC) Hammer. Dozerblade on the rhino is an option too.

 

Pro-tip: Don't overload on gear, it makes your army imbalanced. Why? Because you specialize squads usually, while they keep the same defensive statline; so more points onto the same models while it doesn't increase your effectiveness against a wide range of targets. Upgrades like a Hammer increase your effectiveness against a lot of things for a relative small amount of points and therefore is always worth considering. Psybolt already gets more questionable...

 

But then this is a Codex with a few worthless options, Brother Captain, DreadKnight, Purgation Squad. It's just one of those things.

Ballsy to call those worthless. You can't make a list without Psyflemen, can you? ;) Worthless is a very black and white word... calling those non-optimal would make more sense already.

 

I notice that some people want to have things very clear, without any grey areas. Well maybe this might come as a shock to some but I say it nonetheless: GK's have quite some viable options, lots of more or less competitive choices and list setups. There isn't 1 'best' GKSS setup, nor are units like Dreadknights and Purgation squads 'worthless', maybe try harder to see why they can be good.

 

Well said.

[Marmande]

It's not so much that they're worthless but that the other options are so good. Dreadknights are still pretty meh compared to a Incinerator-loaded Purgation squad, though.

 

But, I agree; Strike Squads are not exactly close-combat monsters in the first place, even falchions; Genestealers, Banshees and Incubi will rip a unit of a unit equipped with them to shreds and all you've accomplished was wasting points on them. Better to buy Psybolt ammunition and save the points for units that can and will do the heavy lifting in combat.

[the jeske]

Dreadknights are still pretty meh compared to a Incinerator-loaded Purgation

0_o but both of those two units do totaly two different things . how can you compare those .

 

 

But, I agree; Strike Squads are not exactly close-combat monsters in the first place, even falchions; Genestealers, Banshees and Incubi will rip a unit of a unit equipped with them to shreds and all you've accomplished was wasting points on them

that is not the problem . because of the number of A they can have per points invested in to it they will struggle against ultra grit or ccw/pistol armed units [aka BA/SW/chaos] . GK with the cost they have and the number of A they have just cant stay in hth with other armies . When a GH has more A then you[+possible more power weapon class stuff and the MotW] or a lot more A[zerkers] you will lose hth . What most GK builds do very well is be shoty and moving , on top of being able to run no or few counter units themself .

A NDK is not wasted points if , for example, your marking a termi centered army[yes it is not top tier but viable] . If someone tries a puri build with crow and goes 2k pts adding purgation squads to have even more shots isnt bad too [or have NDK be tar piters ] .

GK dex does not have units that would never work , unless your opponent helps you use them . But as Zhukov said over gearing units in an army that start with already higher cost is not the way to go . GK are not 4th ed eldar circus .

[Marmande]

The Purgation squad costs far less. :P EDIT: Also the most common build for Dreadknights seems to be having them run with a Heavy Incinerator, lending itself to an anti-infantry role as the Gattling Psilencer has too low strength to be a viable anti-tank weapon and the Heavy Psycannon is vastly inferior to a regular Psycannon, which he can't take. For a minimum of 90pts less, a Purgation squad can do more damage (albeit needing to get closer, though I'd hate to see what would survive 4 Incinerators and be a credible threat afterwards, depending on what you target) and is easier to hide.

 

Add in a Psybolt-Razorback for some extra S6 shots from range and you have a better specialist unit that can add to the army's shooting.

 

That and the Purgation squad doesn't look dumb.

[spu00sed]

If I run them then it is D6" towards tge nearest cover, to save their asses from plasma fun death.

 

As they are running for their lives they will be holding halberds and their stormbolters will be filled with psybolts (points permitting).

 

The Halerds may not be cost effective or an optimium build, but neither thing has bothered me before, besides a sub optimium build (often scoffed at on the forums) can confuse your opponent.

 

Besides I like striking at the same time as my favourite unit time, Genestealers. :P

[Marmande]

You won't need halberds if the Genestealers are charging into cover, unfortunately for Nid players. :P

[greatcrusade08]

besides a sub optimium build (often scoffed at on the forums) can confuse your opponent.

 

it always rubs me the wrong way when people start scoffing at apparent sub optimal builds..

people generally know thier own armies well, and know the units they use and face.. no one person knows all and tbh local meta means what works for one wont work for another.

people like to think they know everything, whilst its true you can know alot and help people, we often forget that sometimes unique and unusual can win games.

[Angelis Mortis]

besides a sub optimium build (often scoffed at on the forums) can confuse your opponent.

 

it always rubs me the wrong way when people start scoffing at apparent sub optimal builds..

people generally know thier own armies well, and know the units they use and face.. no one person knows all and tbh local meta means what works for one wont work for another.

people like to think they know everything, whilst its true you can know alot and help people, we often forget that sometimes unique and unusual can win games.

 

Thats all very true, and not all people use their units for the same task either. For example, I tend to build most of mine for general purpose, and then keep a couple specific task organized (ie, assault heavy, shooty heavy, anti-tank heavy, etc).

[Abaddonshand]

I can't believe I'm seeing arguments that dreadknights are useless. You don't need to arm them you know. I originally was in favour of a pair at 2k, both with personal teleporters, a heavy incinerator on one and a heavy psycannon on the other. Now, I am seriously tempted to leave them barebones except for the the teleporters in order to put 7 falchions on my planned interceptor squad.

 

Dreadknights in the above configuration are cheap (cost of a storm raven) for what they do, namely being flying str10 t6 monstrous creatures wearing terminator armour!

[Marmande]

Again, it's not so much that the Dreadknight is bad, it's just that everything else is either really good (Psyflemen) or do a similar job for cheaper without being as big a target (Incinerator Purgation squads). Even then I'd still prefer the Stormraven for the ability to act as a gunship and complement the army's already sparse long-range AT. But, hey, that's just how I feel.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

My overall tournament record is in my sig. I'm happy with it. I like to think outside the box. To me 50 points well spent is 50 points well spent. Nothing more to say really.

 

G

 

 

I am a competitive tourney player so I need lists that can beat the top armies. The old GK were not really a competitive army if you're honest with yourself. That's why I am looking at new ways to play the army that are now available with the new options. :)

 

G

Well then start with taking rhinos and stop putting 50 points of extra gear on a unit which still gets beaten by elite assault units while they now just cause overkill on weaker units. Oh hey guess what: your survivability to shooting is still the same too. Result? You just made your army overpriced and get shot off the board by IG/Tau/Wolves because you spend points on a unit while you often don't get anything back for it.

 

Also: Calling yourself a 'competitive tourney player' leads to expectations from readers, are you sure you can hold up to those expectations?

 

 

Setup? Depends on the kind of army you want to run. In general you got 2 basic setups which are 'bases' where to build from:

 

-5 GKSS, psycannon, Razorback with psybolt. 160 points.

-10 GKSS, 2 psycannons, Rhino. 260 points.

 

Possible upgrades for the Razor version are taking a Las/Plas Razor or maybe, just maybe a Hammer on the justicar.

Possible upgrades for the Rhino version are Psybolt and a (MC) Hammer. Dozerblade on the rhino is an option too.

 

Pro-tip: Don't overload on gear, it makes your army imbalanced. Why? Because you specialize squads usually, while they keep the same defensive statline; so more points onto the same models while it doesn't increase your effectiveness against a wide range of targets. Upgrades like a Hammer increase your effectiveness against a lot of things for a relative small amount of points and therefore is always worth considering. Psybolt already gets more questionable...

 

But then this is a Codex with a few worthless options, Brother Captain, DreadKnight, Purgation Squad. It's just one of those things.

Ballsy to call those worthless. You can't make a list without Psyflemen, can you? ;) Worthless is a very black and white word... calling those non-optimal would make more sense already.

 

I notice that some people want to have things very clear, without any grey areas. Well maybe this might come as a shock to some but I say it nonetheless: GK's have quite some viable options, lots of more or less competitive choices and list setups. There isn't 1 'best' GKSS setup, nor are units like Dreadknights and Purgation squads 'worthless', maybe try harder to see why they can be good.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Off-topic: Don't put guns on Dreadknights, they all suck. Take greatsword and teleporter, hunt down tanks. Srsly, re-rolling everything is insane, especially with your 2D6. Nothing else in the army can replicate a Dreadknight equipped that way, because nothing else has the speed and reliability when it charges. If you don't take teleporter you might as well take a Dreadnought, because they're both the same speed but the Dreadnought is a lot more economical, buffs 'Aegis' and brings anti-armour suppression from Turn 1 (even if you only swap one arm for the twin-autocannon).

 

On-topic: I like to run my Strike squads like so;

 

Justicar w/master-crafted hammer, 2 x Grey Knights w/psycannons, 7 x Grey Knights w/swords,

(235 points)

Razorback w/lascannon+twin plasma gun

(80 points)

 

I Deepstrike my two Strike squads off my Librarian's servo-skulls, and steal their transport for Combat Squads of Purifiers to ride in (or walk behind at full strength, depending on opponent). Knights lack serious ranged fire until you reach 24", Razorbacks provide mobility and fire support without eating Heavy Support or Elite slots to do so. They're also far cheaper than a Stormraven.

I prefer the las/plas turret due to playtesting. The re-rolls on lascannons proved pretty unnecessary, but when I tried out the extra plasma, I found it easier to take on light armour and monsters.

 

This is basically a way to partially MSU you army, should the circumstances require it (for example, vs opponents who will smash your PA squads whether they're 5 or 10 man, ie Guard). Its not total MSU (and thus failing hard, because SW and BA do it better), but it lets you shift around things and have decent fire support built into the army, comparable to a true MSU list. Same reason I bring a Razorback with Purifiers, it's another AV11 light tank absorbing enemy fire and hurling AP2 back at them.

[death_incarnite]

as great crusade hinted on every player subconsciously has a perfect army idea in their heads that they always lean towards. so when giving advice on a forum they dont always say what will truly help them the most as much as what will nudge them in the direction of their perfect army. to give an example when i talked about the idea of a gunline ba army to some of the local veterans they said be an assault army or swith to regular marines otherwise my army wont do that well. but a few weeks later i crushed them with a feel no pain army that took me to ard boyz semi finals.

 

imho i find that having as many bodies as you can goes really far but on the same topic what matters even more is taking full advantage of every unit in my army. for instance one thing i do is in turn one i send in mordrak, 10 paladins with apocathery and other equipment and a lv 3 libby with teleporter homer, cast sanctuary then hold out tell turn two use the summoning to bring in two units of strikers then cast sanctuary again and quicksilver on his own unit. and turn three quick silver for all. all of course while shooting off bolter rounds and freaking my opponent out. also just want to add in that i equip the palidans with psy bolt ammo to shoot out any unit thats a threat such as devastators with rocket launchers.

 

but i find all and all what works best for you is what works best in the end. i must say though one comment i read earlier was write a cool looking list, let it sit for a few days then come back to it and change what you dont think that you need. i really need to do that before i post some of my concept armys lol

[Gentlemanloser]

for instance one thing i do is in turn one i send in mordrak, 10 paladins with apocathery and other equipment and a lv 3 libby with teleporter homer, cast sanctuary then hold out tell turn two use the summoning to bring in two units of strikers then cast sanctuary again and quicksilver on his own unit. and turn three quick silver for all.

 

Mordrak isn't an IC, so you can't do this.

[iamnothere]

@Brother Darius - I can't disagree more about the Dreadknights guns. Experience has taught me they suck without guns lol! Everytime I run mine without guns and go transport hunting I get tarpitted by infantry after taking one out!

 

My opponents have learn't that the tarpit is the wy to nutralise the DK. When I go guns (Incinerator and Psycannon) they take handfulls of models off.

[The Holy Heretic]

@Brother Darius - I can't disagree more about the Dreadknights guns. Experience has taught me they suck without guns lol! Everytime I run mine without guns and go transport hunting I get tarpitted by infantry after taking one out!

 

My opponents have learn't that the tarpit is the wy to nutralise the DK. When I go guns (Incinerator and Psycannon) they take handfulls of models off.

 

Very true. The DK sucks against hordes.

 

I like mine with incinerator and either cannon/psilencer and greatsword. When he deepstrikes in, he immediately causes a lot of disruption ;)

[Cpt. Blood Donator]

Psybolt ammo, two psycannons, possibly a hammer. Park at an objective and just shoot.

[Zhukov]

My overall tournament record is in my sig. I'm happy with it. I like to think outside the box.

Haha, you want me to seriously reply to this? Your tournament record? It's a joke:

-Most people in this game aren't competitive, even not on tourneys. Records don't say much because of that: Sealclubbing!

-Most tournaments use non-competitive setups. Now it means even less.

-My record would be much and much better, but I'm aware records are rather meaningless and therefore don't put in my signature. Why would you anyway?

 

I argue with logic and examples, you apparantly need 'records' to gain some authority? Don't make me laugh. Well I'm not surprised when I see this 'argument':

To me 50 points well spent is 50 points well spent. Nothing more to say really.

I think you got me here!

[greatcrusade08]

i think perhaps this is a discussion that will lead to bad bad places guys.. apparently making comments about each others opinions can be deemed as perosnal digs.. i got alot of posts removed for that today. Personally ive always been of the opinion that if you post ideas/opinions/comments on the net then you open youirself to others opinions of that..

god how many times have i been called an ultramarine zealot becuase im non tolerant of ultrahate? (thats a direction we should avoid tbh)

 

i have always been very anti-WAAC gaming.. some people on this board are of the opinion that wins mean everything.. its simply not the case.

in terms of what is competative there is no true answer, there is no one list that has a 100% win record and many tournaments are full of baby seals

 

i myself get very arsey when people talk about units being useless and whatnot.. there are sub-optimal units, but even those can work in an optimised list (the whole being greater than the sum of its parts). As an example I get very annoyed when people tell me what scouts can or cant do becuase there are few to none with the same experience and knowledge of 5th ed scouts.

 

Ive found through personal experience that most people who post win/loss recordseither exxagerate or are those who care far too much for thier 'reputation' and this nomrally leads to them pulling the odd fast one during a game to get a win... its a slippery slope to WAAC gaming tbh.

 

People talk about me being the uber scout champion or somesuch, but i lose more than i win (especially at the moment).. this is becuase i take on better gamers with more optimised torunament based lists..

some will say that my win/loss record means i suck at gaming, most of us realise that only by challenging our betters can we grow as a gamer and develop our skills.. as a teenager i was a tournament chess player and its very much the same thing, those who cared about thier win/loss records were generally asshats.

 

In terms of the new GK we can use past precedents to look into how to use them, the old water warrior articles still hold true (to a degree) to the new dex..

i feel spending 330 points + on a single ten man unit is a big mistake, a huge mistake.. Falchions are just not worth taking on a unit whos main strength is shooting.. its like spending 50 points to give tac marines 5 extra attacks..

GK strike squads are capable of getting 21 attacks on the charge, they have storm bolters which means they should be charging except against units with better movemnt.. adding 50 points ot a unit of PA marines who may never see combat is a big waste of points IMO

 

edit: think of it this way, if you need those extra 5 Pw attacks to win combat then your making a mistake by charging them