Pods, Deep Strikers and difficult terrain

[Marshal Wilhelm]

G'day all,

 

Just thought to clarify something.

 

When you DS, you scatter 2d6" just like using a Pod.

 

However:

Page 22 –Drop Pod Assault

Change the last sentence in the third paragraph to “Should

a Drop Pod scatter on top of impassable terrain or another

model (friend or foe!) then reduce the scatter distance by

the minimum required in order to avoid the obstacle.”

 

The Pod, as per pg 22 of C:BT, don't have as many hazards as when they land. When you DS, you can land within 1" of enemy dudes and then take a DS mishap test. BBB pg 95.

DSers treat difficult terrain as dangerous terrain, as per pg 14 BBB.

 

Now what happens when the Pod lands on Difficult -> Dangerous terrain?

From my understanding, the Pod takes the dangerous terrain test, and on a 'one' gets immobilised. Well it already would be immobilised, so no biggy. Though I am not sure if that results in a weapon destroyed result [wrecking the Storm bolter]....?

 

The squad doesn't take the test.

 

Is this correct, or am I missing something?

 

Thank you, come again. :teehee:

[Grey Mage]

It becomes a weapon destroyed result, removing the stormbolter.

 

The squad doesnt take the test though- they didnt deepstrike into terrain. Just like how a Rhino driving through dangerous terrain doesnt trigger a dangerous terrain test on the squad inside.

 

Of course, if they disembark into dangerous terrain they test, but thats not the same thing at all, as difficult terrain isnt dangerous for disembark moves.

[Marshal Wilhelm]

It becomes a weapon destroyed result, removing the stormbolter.

 

The squad doesnt take the test though- they didnt deepstrike into terrain. Just like how a Rhino driving through dangerous terrain doesnt trigger a dangerous terrain test on the squad inside.

 

Of course, if they disembark into dangerous terrain they test, but thats not the same thing at all, as difficult terrain isnt dangerous for disembark moves.

 

Great. :D

 

This is how it seemed to me.

 

Also, the squad will be running after the disembark, so even if they are in difficult terrain, they are no slower anyway. Cowabunga.

 

I ask this as I am wanting to try Hammernators in a Pod. Link: post # 28

Templars don't suffer from Drop Pod Assault :P and so this seems like a grand way to mess up a fire base, as the rest of their army has already moved forwards....

 

*rubs hands together*

[Hellios]

GW Rulebook FAQ 1.2

 

Q: Does a unit being transported by a vehicle that has arrived by Deep Strike that turn count as having arrived by Deep Strike? (p95)

 

A: Yes.

 

P95 of the main rulebook... "Models arriving via deep strike treat all difficult terrain as dangerous terrain."

 

This is an arguement that is put forward to claim that passengers who disembark on the turn their transport deep strikes (such as in the case of the Drop-pod) must take dangerous terrain roles if they go into difficult terrain.

 

 

Right or wrong... you tell me :P

[Grey Mage]

No- because a disembark move isnt a deepstrike. They already arrived by deepstrike, now theyre doing someting different.

 

As for the actual act of deep striking... again, no- these troops may counts as deepstriking but its not them interacting with the terrain.

[Marshal Wilhelm]

GW Rulebook FAQ 1.2

 

Q: Does a unit being transported by a vehicle that has arrived by Deep Strike that turn count as having arrived by Deep Strike? (p95)

 

A: Yes.

 

P95 of the main rulebook... "Models arriving via deep strike treat all difficult terrain as dangerous terrain."

 

This is an arguement that is put forward to claim that passengers who disembark on the turn their transport deep strikes (such as in the case of the Drop-pod) must take dangerous terrain roles if they go into difficult terrain.

 

 

Right or wrong... you tell me :)

 

I think this is talking about assaulting from, say, a Bloods LR or Deldar Raider [with appropriate upgrade] to stop people assaulting unfairly.

Or to stop them from pewpewing heavy weapons, etc.

 

I would not be surprised if this could be turned into an ugly fight due to GWs loose writing, but it seems fairly clear to me, when you look at how vehicles moving through Dangerous terrain do not inflict deaths on their passengers either.

 

+++

 

Counts as, is not the same as actually.

They count as, so they cannot assault or shoot HW.

But they never did, so they don't take the hit from the Dangerous terrain.

[Hellios]

GW Rulebook FAQ 1.2

 

Q: Does a unit being transported by a vehicle that has arrived by Deep Strike that turn count as having arrived by Deep Strike? (p95)

 

A: Yes.

 

P95 of the main rulebook... "Models arriving via deep strike treat all difficult terrain as dangerous terrain."

 

This is an arguement that is put forward to claim that passengers who disembark on the turn their transport deep strikes (such as in the case of the Drop-pod) must take dangerous terrain roles if they go into difficult terrain.

 

 

Right or wrong... you tell me :)

 

I think this is talking about assaulting from, say, a Bloods LR or Deldar Raider [with appropriate upgrade] to stop people assaulting unfairly.

Or to stop them from pewpewing heavy weapons, etc.

 

I would not be surprised if this could be turned into an ugly fight due to GWs loose writing, but it seems fairly clear to me, when you look at how vehicles moving through Dangerous terrain do not inflict deaths on their passengers either.

 

+++

 

Counts as, is not the same as actually.

They count as, so they cannot assault or shoot HW.

But they never did, so they don't take the hit from the Dangerous terrain.

 

As I say I was just giving the arguement as some people put it, but let me play devil's advocate here... Counts as means that while you may not have literally done whatever it is you have done for all rule purposes you have and so when determining if terrain is difficult you consider it as if you have used the deep strike rules with that model itself. Now the assault point is certainly fair and I don't doubt this question was raised due to land raiders deep striking which have assault ramps... as for heavy weapons that isn't an issue as that would be covered by normal transport rules, deep striking or not!

 

However the comparison with other transports isn't accurate!

 

I guess the question would be how long does a model that deep strikes count difficult terrain as dangerous Is it just in the actual deepstriking phase at the start of the movement, what if a unit was given a special rule that allowed it a free movement after deep striking would that count (assume that the rule does not specify either way)? Now in the shooting phase it says you may fire or run as normal... now when they say normal are they implying that no additional penalties are added to running/shooting because you have used the deep strike rule or is the normal implying that you no longer count difficult terrain as dangerous (assume a squad of terminators has teleported this taking transports out of the question for now!)... Do you count difficult terrain as dangerous for running tests in the shooting phase if you have teleported in that turn? If the answer to that is yes then I would argue that models who disembark into difficult terrain from deepstriking transports also take dangerous terrain tests. If the answer is no then I guess it could go either way.

 

I'm only doing this for a better understanding of the rules, normally I'm happy to let people play which ever way they like as long as they are consistant... aka it hurts when I use a DoA list so it better hurt when they use a teleporting Death Wing list!

[Marshal Wilhelm]

It is only the actual placement that is the DSing part.

 

You could DS into clear terrain and then run into difficult terrain, and would not suffer from it 'becoming' Dangerous terrain, even though the unit had DSed that turn.

 

It is the 'splat' 'teleport' 'landing' that is the dangerous bit, after that the unit is fine.

 

I don't think any unit has the ability to move after the DS?

Units can run instead of shoot, and VV can assault. But no-one "moves" during the movement phase.

 

You can't assault because, just like a transport, the transport has moved, then you deploy and so cannot assault. The problem with the FAQ is it seems people were really asking about assault vehicles, they would have made it much clearer if they'd said "assault and open-topped vehicles do not allow passengers to assault the turn they arrive via DS" but instead they were trying to be clever with a one word answer.

'Ha, we answered it with but a word' but you opened up passengers getting Dangerous terrain deaths because of it. 'Be quiet, please!'

D'oh!

 

Or they'd have written about assault vehicles, and then someone would have said it didn't apply to open-topped vehicles, etc.

Ad nauseum.

 

It reads to me that disembarking is after the DS - "....these units may not move any further, other than to disembark from a DS transport vehicle"

Showing that DS movement stops with the landing, and after that you are good to go. Disembarking is movement post-DS and so Difficult terrain is just Difficult terrain.

 

If I were trying this at a tourney, I would make sure beforehand that the TO said cool. I think GW's writing is ambiguous enough to make a case either way, though if you look at the vehicle through Dangerous terrain precedent AND also allow ALL DSers to run [or assault, if allowed by special rule] as normal, not having Difficult becoming Dangerous terrain, then I can't see how people would stand against it, besides just wanting to stuff you up :D

 

But being GW, it is hard to zero in on stuff, especially with such cryptic FAQ responses.