3.5 Chaos Codex Vs 4.0

[Calacorm]

Ok, I know that in tourneys and other more structured scenes, that I would have no choice but to use the newer chaos codex. But lets say that in a friendly basement games, until a new chaos codex should come out. How hard would it be to use the older codex?

 

I feel its a better codex then the current and it would allow me to play a more fluff filled list.

 

Would anyone know any of the pitfalls of using the older codex when it comes to compatibility of the rules? I know some house rules may be needed. But I think it may be worth the effort?

 

What do you all think?

[the jeske]

I doubt anyone would let you use it . And it works like it does work . Main list for non legion marines that can be upgrade to one of the legion armies by using a pre set number of rules .

But the 3.5 dex is no longer legal .

[Calacorm]

You do not understand what I am asking..

 

First, I know its not legal. I thought I made that clear? So let me try and rephrase it in a way you can understand. I am talking about games for fun among friends. I am asking people out there (readers on the Bolter and Chain Sword), who if they do use it, how do they use it in conjunction with 5th edition 40k rules set. What are some of the pitfalls in rules or things I would need to be aware of?

 

And if no one does, perhaps we can start a discussion on how, or things we should look for. So, if I want to make a fluffy list for fluffy games with others who DO NOT mind me using the list from that rule book as opposed to people saying, its illegal! it cant be done BS.

 

 

Thanks. :sweat:

[Darth Kados]

Good on you Calacorn! I doff my cap at thee!

 

If you've got a group of friends who want to and will let you do it, DO IT!!!!!!!!!! I also like to play for fun and might bring this query up with my mates.

 

As to playing Codex 3.5 using 5th ed rules all it takes is ten minutes before you play the game to talk to your friends about any possible pitfalls, otherwise deal with them when they come up in game. If your friends are relaxed enough to let you play 3.5 then I'm sure they'd deal with any problems that arise. If the question is that thorny then just roll a D6, thats how I've played for 15yrs and no-one's complained!!!

[Darth Kados]

What Legion would you be playing?

[Lay]

I find it easier to combine the Index Astartes legion rules with the 4th edition Codex. No major tweaks required, but it's no replacement for the "veteran" feel of the old book.

[the jeske]

You do not understand what I am asking..

I do . That is why I said no one will let you play with it because of its legality and if someone does it doesnt matter so you use it the way stuff is costed/ruled in the dex. How else would you suppose to use a 3.5 dex now anyway ? either you take it the way it was or you may as well write your own , if you want any changes .

[Larkyn]

You do not understand what I am asking..

I do . That is why I said no one will let you play with it because of its legality and if someone does it doesnt matter so you use it the way stuff is costed/ruled in the dex. How else would you suppose to use a 3.5 dex now anyway ? either you take it the way it was or you may as well write your own , if you want any changes .

 

 

So you're saying no one in the whole world would let anyone play the 3.5 codex? Clearly my group of friends are from another planet, because I occasionly use the 3.5 codex in FUN games. Note the overemphasis, which you seem not to have gotten from the OP.

[Shas'o R'Vre]

Whilst there are no rules about making exceptions to go back to older codeces, I don't know that the 3.5 would be terribly effective in the latest ruleset. Too many odd rules and conflicts I think. If you're prepared to slog through those things, more power to you for doing that, I just think it'll be a big stumbling block.

[Kristoff]

The good news is that 3rd Edition was in relative infancy, so USRs were not very common, and any Unique SRs are explained in the codex itself. This mostly a conversation to have with your local group, as they're the ones to play with it, but if you have an specific questions, bring them up in this thread, and we can argue about it for a page or two.

 

 

And Jeske,

 

Not everyone cares about the legality/age of a codex. There are many who are willing to play against a fandex simply because it's different from the normal fair (though a wise one will read it first). It may not fly in your neck of the woods, but it apparently might at the OP's.

[Calacorm]

To you Darth Kados

 

I usually play a heavily themed khorne army. And I found that I have lost the flavor on my current warband, as it was watered down to the newer codex. So, after some debate with my friends, I figured I ask around and see if anyone else is doing it, and if there was anything ahead of time I should be aware of.

 

To everyone else.

I have read through the older codex, and I dont see anything to much that would cause to much of a problem. There are a few things like instability, that need to be looked at. And even that is not that big of an issue.

 

The group I play with, all come from a heavy RPG back ground, and all of them got into 40K mainly because of me. So, its not uncommon for our games to be all tied together, and for fun, models being modeled with trophys from our victories, and next thing you know, there are short stories sent to peoples emails, and then another person writing back with their own story/challenge to be played out on the battle field. And then the cycle continues.

 

Heck, personally I would even use the even older 3rd edition codex, as I found that even more favorable then the current dex. Which for a person like me, kills me... knowing that the older dex has that much more flavor then the one I am currently using.

 

But as someone above said, most of the USR are well described and shouldnt be that hard to work through. I also been looking at the point costs of stuff, I dont see that much of a difference, other then transports. But like some of the other older dexs, Templars, Dark Angels its still workable. I think..

 

Compared to the newer dexs, Space Wolves, Blood Angels, Nids, Imperial Guard, Dark Eldar and even Space Marines, I dont see the older chaos codex being that over or under balanced. Do you?

[Calacorm]

I find it easier to combine the Index Astartes legion rules with the 4th edition Codex. No major tweaks required, but it's no replacement for the "veteran" feel of the old book.

 

 

Oh I missed this one!

 

Lay, I am not familiar with this.. Can you tell me a little more about this?

[Warsmith Aznable]

I'd play the OP. In fact I just bought the old codex on amazon for $4 even. If anything it'll be good to have around for flavor and background. I'm interested in hearing about these Index Astartes Legion rules as well, but I figure that for $4 and maybe a weekend or two of fiddling with it to see what's what isn't any kind of loss. At the very least I'll get to see what all the fuss is about.

[Azekai]

Hmmm . . . That is an intriguing prospect Max- I might just have to swing by half priced books and get the old dex just to try it out. My friends and I have been messing around with the old Kroot list to use as allies, so I don't think the outdated rules thing will be much of a problem. :P

[Rik Riorik]

Don't know how many house rules you'd need. Didn't play enough of any of the editions to learn my way around the rules good enough to be able to asnwer that, If it is still friendly then most issues should be pretty easy to solve with just applying a bit of logic should any arrise. I'd play against it, I'd even play it myself if it weren't for the fact that I'd not want to bother the people I'd play with the potential rules problems.

 

As for the Index Astartes rules they were published in the Index Astartes series in White Dwarf (which were also combined in the Index Astartes books I-IV which might be available on ebay). Basically in their basest form the pretty much can be said to be the Legion specific rules. Ie Word Bearers getting Accursed Crozii and Demagogue, Night Lords getting more Fast attack and so on and so forth. Whilst perhaps easier to use with the newest edition it is also less flavourful.

[the jeske]

So you're saying no one in the whole world would let anyone play the 3.5 codex?

considering how many people around the world would run in to people who would say no , compering to the number of people that would say ok use it . Yes. As close to saying no one will let him play against it . I mean technicly a friend may let him use a warmachine army and house rule the units , but how many opposing players like that will you find around the world.

My concern is the fact that when building an army that is other then BL khorn or IW , most of the units and unit set ups used with the 3.5 dex would rarely if ever be used in games against the majority of the enviroment.

 

+ it is very build specific. WE , NL or 1ksons ? no one would care [but then again I seen people whine that necrons are OP , so going by your way of thinking who knows] . But say your using an undivided list and your opponent will see an army with 6 hvy support [no not the IW army] all havocks all with tank hunter and infiltration . That is the problem with the dex . If Calacorm doesnt know the 3.5 dex and its builds then there is a big chance his friends [again building an army you can only use against a small number of people ends with burn out realy fast] dont know it too. there is a good chance that after a few games they will just say "you know we think it is too OP" use normal dex and what is he going to do then with all the un usable models ?

 

Am not saying this that I dont like the idea of using the 3.5 dex. But through the years I have seen this happen a lot of times in many parts of europe , that people build army X with an old dex and either got burned out because of few players they could play against or they play groups said no after some time .

 

 

If Calacorm is sure that that wont happen , then go for it . There are no rules in the 3.5 dex that would make the game crash , a few dont work at all but a lot of other old dex have or had such rules and no one was stoping to play them[ok . the necron players did , but that is something totaly different].

[Slayer le Boucher]

Well for the Instability test their exactly as how Fearless now works with the extra wounds in CC if lost anyway.

 

The transports cost are pretty much the same in that at the time a rhino costed 45 or 50pts abd the extra armor was 5pts, now a rhino is 35pts but the extra armor is 15pts...so it all came to the same.

 

The only thing is that old LR still had "Spirit Machine" like rules it was called "Hellish intelligence" or something...

[Larkyn]

So you're saying no one in the whole world would let anyone play the 3.5 codex?

considering how many people around the world would run in to people who would say no , compering to the number of people that would say ok use it . Yes. As close to saying no one will let him play against it . I mean technicly a friend may let him use a warmachine army and house rule the units , but how many opposing players like that will you find around the world.

My concern is the fact that when building an army that is other then BL khorn or IW , most of the units and unit set ups used with the 3.5 dex would rarely if ever be used in games against the majority of the enviroment.

 

 

If you actually used punctuation, maybe people would take you seriously. To me, you seem like just a stubborn 12 year old kid who has never seen the 3.5 Codex.

 

But, anyway, back on topic. I'm not quite sure what you mean in that last sentence of the quote I took. So...I think you're trying to say, that basically no one would use Raptors, bikers, demons, or other units like that? And that's different that in the current codex?

[Shas'o R'Vre]

If you actually used punctuation, maybe people would take you seriously. To me, you seem like just a stubborn 12 year old kid who has never seen the 3.5 Codex.

*facepalm*

 

Look at Jeske's join date... Now look at your comment.

[Calacorm]

To Jeske,

 

I hear what you are saying, and dont get me wrong. But with all your concerns about a codex being OP, or not. The group I play, on occasion likes to have fun games which are high in fluff.

 

As i mentioned above, I got all my players involved with 40, all with in the last 2 years. Me, I been playing since the 90s. I happen to have a large collection of chaos, and its fun for me, and the guys to play fluffy games. Some of the players who I play with, find the newwer chaos codex ok, even with its lack luster appeal vs the the last 2 years of newer codex's. Which got me thinking, how about I show them what the fluffy armies of Khorne were all about.

 

I also did say, I would like to use it till a newer codex came out. Thats a stretch, but its something I would like to do with my friends. But in my view, its that much of a better codex. Not because its a uber powerful codex, which would allow me to win ever game, first off Im not that good anyways. Also, I am not into WAAC, and I dont like making list which exploit game rules or even build armies which are designed to destroy what ever army my friends are playing that night. (I HATE META) I like games full of flavor and depth, and I can control that depth on my side of the table. I still play my 4.0 codex with what ever khorne flavor that I can. No sorcerer, no conflicting marks, just a whole wack of red and gold/brass colored angry marines running forward with 1 extra attack. WAAC be damned, as long as I can get Khârn, and a 20 unit strong zerker squad into combat!

 

 

And besides, looking at all the newer codexs that have been released the last few years, the power creep is crazy, and now the 4.0 codex of chaos is really starting to show its age, simple fix, bring it back to what it was like. That will not wreck the game, but actually balance it out on the new higher standard codex power. (But thats a different post entirely)

[Hellios]

If you actually used punctuation, maybe people would take you seriously. To me, you seem like just a stubborn 12 year old kid who has never seen the 3.5 Codex.

*facepalm*

 

Look at Jeske's join date... Now look at your comment.

Not sure how long someone has been on the board matters...

 

 

So you're saying no one in the whole world would let anyone play the 3.5 codex?

considering how many people around the world would run in to people who would say no , compering to the number of people that would say ok use it . Yes. As close to saying no one will let him play against it . I mean technicly a friend may let him use a warmachine army and house rule the units , but how many opposing players like that will you find around the world.

My concern is the fact that when building an army that is other then BL khorn or IW , most of the units and unit set ups used with the 3.5 dex would rarely if ever be used in games against the majority of the enviroment.

 

 

If you actually used punctuation, maybe people would take you seriously. To me, you seem like just a stubborn 12 year old kid who has never seen the 3.5 Codex.

 

But, anyway, back on topic. I'm not quite sure what you mean in that last sentence of the quote I took. So...I think you're trying to say, that basically no one would use Raptors, bikers, demons, or other units like that? And that's different that in the current codex?

 

Maybe The Jeske speaks another language for his first language (Russian hint hint) and only learned a bit of English at school... If you want everything he says to be really clear I suggest you learn Russian ;) It isn't as bad as it looks!

 

Anyway @ OP... 3.5 should still work fairly well if your group of friends will let you (and it might be worth talking about lists before you go and buy stuff to check they will be ok with everything) and you don't mind that many of your models (depending on what build you do) may be of no use when playing people who won't let you use the old codex... then yeah go for it! Most issues are fairly simple to resolve, they work, they can be replaced with the new version of that USR, they don't work at all... all good! The real problem is when rules conflict with each other! That is where you must talk with your friends to decide what the best way to resolve the issue would be!

[Shas'o R'Vre]

Not sure how long someone has been on the board matters...

He joined in 06 implying he's been playing since before 3.5. That's all :cuss

[Calacorm]

Anyway @ OP... 3.5 should still work fairly well if your group of friends will let you (and it might be worth talking about lists before you go and buy stuff to check they will be ok with everything) and you don't mind that many of your models (depending on what build you do) may be of no use when playing people who won't let you use the old codex... then yeah go for it! Most issues are fairly simple to resolve, they work, they can be replaced with the new version of that USR, they don't work at all... all good! The real problem is when rules conflict with each other! That is where you must talk with your friends to decide what the best way to resolve the issue would be!

 

Ha, I am past the point of needing to buy any chaos models for a long time now :)

 

Looking for reasons/excuses to bring them out of retirement. :)

[Warsmith Aznable]

Maybe we could institute a project to convert the 3.5 codex to 5th edition? I'd be up for contributing to that discussion.

[Larkyn]

Maybe we could institute a project to convert the 3.5 codex to 5th edition? I'd be up for contributing to that discussion.

 

 

This. I'd support being able to use my Alpha Legion cultists again.

 

And I apologize, jeske, I meant no offense. I didn't realize you were russian.