Redeemer List Ideas

[Battle Brother Seth]

anyone have an idea for a redeemer list?

 

want vulkan and possible want a termy squad.

 

any ideas? thanks

[Olgerth Istaarn]

You just answered your own question.

 

You want Vulkan, Terminators (TH/SS I assume) and a Redeemer.

 

Now count up the points left over after after you took that package, and fill it with whatever is necessary to make a valid army list...

[Aegnor]

Remember to give your LRR extra armour.

[Brother Valerius]

Vulkan won't make your flamestorm cannons twin-linked, will he? I seem to recall the codex specifying flamers, heavy flamers, meltaguns, and multi-meltas.

[Aegnor]

Yeah, he does not make the Redeemer cannons twin-linked - it annoys me no end, wish they'd FAQ it :cuss

[Nickles 138 SUP]

I have fought against the land raider redeemer several times, and i must say that terminators don't cut it. Of coarse terminators are good, but there are much better units to field in a land raiders.

 

The Blood angles guy that I fights fields a land raider redeemer and he places death company in it. When he releases that unit into combat (which is easy with those assault grenades) they get furious charge, which is not a pretty sight. Another guy who uses space wolfs fields in his land raider crusader some freaky dinky guys (don't remember what they are called). I personally also have an honor guard fielded into my land raider crusader. With 10 honor guard, 1 chapter master, and one Chaplain, the squad becomes a melee nightmare.

 

Terminators are good, but unless you field assault terminators in your land raider redeemer, you are not going to get the results you wanted.

 

good luck making a list. ^_^

[Aegnor]

Well both Blood Angels and Space Wolves actually have effective assault options short of a squad of Assault Terminators or a Honor Guard squad. For C:SM, a tactical squad ain't going to get the job done, and with Assault squads, you're wasting the jump packs. Maybe the Vanguard could be the go, given they're not too bad value if you don't have to purchase jump packs for them.

[Corby]

If you're building a Vulkan list , make sure to maximise the number of Heavy flamers and Meltas in your army list. This means bringing alot of Landspeeders (3 squads of 2) as they're a cheap and easy way of getting melta into an army.

As for your landraider Unit , Vulkan and 5 Thunderhammer stormshield Terminators in a landraider Redeemer with extra armour and a multi-melta will be pretty nasty and allows your army to deal with other nasty assault units or mech. You'll probally have plenty of flamer templates for hordes as well.

[DarkGuard]

If you want to maximise the destructive potential of your Land Raider Redeemers you want to consider taking two of them, most likely with a Hammernator squad in each. Of course, we're looking at 1750-2000pts now, as we then need to fit in some support, like a couple of flamer/MM Tactical squads in Rhinos and some HF/MM Speeders, plus perhaps a Libby for psychic support.

 

Also, I know that they don't necessarily have meltas or flamers, but consider a couple of units like Typhoons, Rifleman Dreads and combi-preds. A big problem in many Vulkan lists is range. Against faster lists like Eldar and Deldar they get outrun, against other Space Marine armies, Imperial Guard etc they can't shut down their units from afar. I wouldn't invest too many points in these long-range units, but still consider running a couple to try and keep your opponent's head down. Your opponent will be expecting a one dimensional list, surprise him.

[Slackjaw]

I like the idea of the assault squad... Am I right in thinking you could take a rhino instead of their jump packs & have a tactical squad hop in it first turn & then still move the rhino? If so you can save 35 points there. Give them a thunder hammer & 2 flamers, chuck them in the redeemer with vulkan and flank it with a pair of vindicators... or maybe screen it with them?

 

consider a couple of units like Typhoons, Rifleman Dreads and combi-preds.

This. Riflemen refers to 2 twin-linked autocannons, right? I've tried them and love them! Typhoons look great too.

[DarkGuard]

Rifleman Dreads are indeed two TL-autocannons, a brilliant model to use. In my 1750pts games I use two Rifleman Dreads and two Typhoons in a squadron, gives me a good amount of long-range anti-tank.

 

I'm glad to see someone else who has my line of thinking about the matter of Vulkan. Many Vulkan lists attempt to maximise his potential by including as many melta and flamer units as possible. While such lists are powerful at close range, these armies become one dimensional and predictable. Taking a few units like Rifleman and Typhoons allow you to take away this one dimensional property, while taking units like Vindicators can divert firepower away from your valuable units and also give you some more destructive firepower.

 

However, as Vindicators don't benefit at all from Vulkan I am tempted to take a Tactical squad instead with combi-melta, meltagun combo. Gives me some more melta, and another frontline presence, plus another 10 power armoured bodies. Flip side is I lose one tank and don't have a couple of scary Vindicators anymore.

[ShinyRhino]

An important thing to remember when packing Terminators of any sort (or any other high model count unit) into a Land Raider Redeemer is "real estate."

By that I mean, watch your spacing when attempting to line up a disembarkation and a charge. I found that 8 Terminator bases coming out of a Crusader was very very hard to keep in coherency when near an enemy unit. Drive the Land Raider too far forward, and you may not be able to get all your models out of the hatches within 2" of the doors, 1" away from the enemy, and still retain coherency.

This is going to be even harder for a Redeemer, as you have to get danger-close in order to apply the Flamestorm Cannons to the enemy.

[Ming]

Landraider tactics can be fairly useful to practise over and over. I'd get some models out and work up the best tactical deployments.

 

Overall, I'd have to say that tactical terminators have no place in a landraider on a regular game table.

 

Two redeemers with 5 or 6 assault terminators in each can be amazing. Imagine running up to a Ork horde or IG blob, surrounded by other units - The flamestorm is used to either hit the unit you plan to assault, or other units to the flank of where the assault will be. The flamestorm is really dedicated to that - if you moved 12 inches, the landraider could spin sideways, dismount the terminators, flame the unit, then assault the unit with the terminators. If you use tactical terminators, and plan to assault, having a heavy flamer in the terminators would be a must.

 

Crusader landraiders operate differently - get close, dismount, bolter the crap out of the target with the Crusader, then get on with the assault.

 

If running two landraiders full of assault - having a librarian for null zone or another spell like Avenger can be a must have choice. After that, the other HQ choice if taken could be shrike - giving the terminators fleet (golly) or kantor - giving them an extra attack each. I'd only take Vulkan if the core was around suitably armed tactical terminators.

 

Librarian, TDA, SS

5 assault terms, 2 THSS, LR Redeemer

6 assault terms, 3 THSS, LR Redeemer

Ironclad, Pod

Captain, Bike

2+ Bike Squads as troops

Attack bikes and cyclone landspeeders till you run out of points

[jeffersonian000]

I use to run a 2 Redeemer list back in the day, with a Crusader at 1500pts, as a "Death Watch" strike team.

 

Librarian (cheap)

Techmarine (cheap)

6-man Vanguard Vet squad w/ power wepons

LR Crusader (bare)

 

5-man Tactical Squad w/ melta, missile launcher

LR Redeemer (bare)

 

5-man Tactical Squad w/ melta, missile launcher

LR Redeemer (bare)

 

Just rolled around at +7" per turn firing into units I could kill with either assault cannon or flamestorm. I'd either leave the tacticals on objectives or transport them to objectives, while the Libby, Tech and Vets were my "30 power weapon attacks" assault squad I'd save for for when a target just needed some extra kill'n. Very rarely did I get an opponent that could handle 3 land raiders bearing down on them, and on those occassion the match was epic!

 

But this was just my "F' it, I'm want to play with tanks tonight" list, and not a real tourney list.

 

SJ

[DarkGuard]

Quick question that I'm sure the OP will find useful jeffersonian000, did you often find that should your opponent pop at least two of the Land Raiders then you had effectively lost? I ask this because it seems that beyond the three, massive, AV14 tanks you don't have much staying power after that.

[jeffersonian000]

One's a target, two's a problem, three's at strategy. I've found that up against another Land Raider, its dies and at least one of mine dies (a second one might get immobalized, but I've yet to lose two). Against two Land Raiders, I might lose one, they might lose one; in a kill points game I win, in an objectives game we tend to tie. No ones ever brought three Land Raiders to the table in my venue other than me, so I have no data on that fight (but I'm guessing it'd be epic).

 

Like I said, its not a competetive list, just something I like to do because I have three magnetized Land Raiders that can be any of the three current configurations (but none of the IA ones, yet). Up until recently, I normally field two Land Raiders (configured to fit my need) in a given force, because I like them and I have them, with the third fielded in higher point games.

 

With a new codex out (GK), I'll be dropped my "death wagons" for some foot-termie slog'n.

 

SJ

[DarkGuard]

Thank for taking the time to answer. I've been (un)fortunate enough to play against a few multi Land Raider lists. One of my friends on my local gaming group used to take at least two Land Raiders, and I always had trouble popping them. Those turned into highly contested, but yet fun games. I believe the rest of his list was putting Grey Hunters with HQ choices in the Raiders, and a Wolf Guard unit or two in Razorbacks, packed full of combis.

 

The other player was at a regional tournament. We're not talking ToS or anything, but it was still rather competitive, as evidenced by the fact that my first opponent brought two LRCs, one LR and three Terminator squads plus Belial and a Chaplain in 1750pts!! I only had one unit of fast melta as I thought I wouldn't be facing this many Land Raiders. In the end I think I only popped one, but then my shooting at the Terminators fluffed badly and they started eating through my units. Fortunately it was an objective game, so we drew 1-1, but had it gone on I don't think I would have been so lucky.

 

To be honest though, if you bring multi-Raiders I'll struggle because I have such bad luck beating them. Although the last person to bring multi-Raiders against dropped a Drop Pod in his path, meaning one had to go around a bastion while the other got through, splitting them. This being a kill points game I simply castled my units and took them out one by one, so perhaps I'm learning :P.

 

I think the massive thing about multi-Raider lists is that beyond the Land Raiders, as you've shown, there isn't much staying power. Unless you've taken everything out beforehand you're in trouble when the Raider's gone. That being said the problem is getting them out of the Raider, and while the Raiders are running around they will cause a lot of damage. And they're fun, at times I've thought about doing a Raider list, but then how will I fit three Land Raiders in one bag ;)

[Mysticaria]

That many land raiders creates a Rock-Paper-Scissors scenario. If you go up against someone who isn't ready for it, you win. If you go up against someone with all melta, you lose. Your army ceases to matter at that point, and who wins/losses is more determined by your opponent. I played competative Magic back in the day (pro tour, Nationals, etc..) and this has that Magic deck-building feel to it, where you try to get something out there that can't be beat by 80% of the metagame. The 20% of people who have a hard counter just win, but in a tournament you hope to just avoid them.

 

Then there's the problem with comped tournaments. I wouldn't imagine you could play such an army in a tournament where your army list counts for points.

 

If I did something like this it would only be for fun, and only once or twice. Not likely though considering the cost of landraiders these days.

 

-Myst

[jeffersonian000]

Again, that's an example of a land raider heavy list I played when I felt like it, not an actual tournament list.

 

In tourneys, as I played GK as my primary army, I would always take two Godhammers, three PAGK units, a GKT unit and a GK Hero (1 HQ, 1 Elite, 3 Troops, 0 Fast, 2 Heavy, few upgrades, one more troop than any other unit selection, and heavies where less than 1/3 of my points in a 1750pt list). With such a build, I had a balance all-comers list that was 100% Grey Knights (themed, with background fluff), 100% painted (not as good as I'd like, never won on my painting skills), and definitely not over powered (being a 2nd or 3rd tiered army from a 3rd ed codex). I'd win-draw-lose in equal measure (unfortunately). I've posted quite a few of my army list on this site, so its not hard to see what I'm talking about.

 

SJ

[Mysticaria]

ah, ok. I didn't mean to sound too negative in my earlier post. It does look like something that would beat a lot of what's out there... just has that feel that I used to get when playing magic, where you try to beat half the field before you even come to the table. That's probably a personal bias though, as part of the reason I like warhammer so much is the ability to play some of everything and still get fairly even games. Can't really do that in Magic.

 

Anyway, target saturation is a valid strategy for increasing resilience, and when combined with an already resilient vehicles it should be highly effective.

Risky? sure.

Fun? absolutely.

Effective? probably.

 

-Myst

[jeffersonian000]

I just played a duel-Redeemer list, using the new GK codex for the first time. It was a 1500pt game versus Necrons, and here's what happened:

 

I took a modified water army, using models I had rather than units I wanted:

 

2x GKBC w/ Psycannon

 

1x Callidus Assassin

 

1x GKSS (10-man) w/ 2x Psycannons, 7x NFH, Psybolts

 

1x GKss (5-man) w/ 4x NFH, Psybolts

 

2x LR Redeemer w/ Melta, Psybolts, Psyflame

 

 

He took (as best I recall):

 

1x Lord w/ Ord, res upgrade

 

2x Warriors (10-man)

 

1x Destroyers (5-man)

 

1x Immortals (10-man)

 

4x Wraiths (4-man)

 

1x Tomb Spider

 

1x Heavy Destroyer

 

1x Monolith

 

 

We rolled for a 2 Objective game with deployment zones 12" from the players table edge (forgot the names). We both placed our objectives in ruins on the same side of the table, near the right hand edge. I deployed first, with my 10-man GKSS combat squaded with the two Psycannons in one group and placed on the objective, while the remaining two GKSS units where each in a Redeemer (placed in the middle, about 12" apart), and the two BC's as well as the Callidus in reserve for deep striking. He deployed a unit of Warriors on top of his objective, which was flanked by the Destroys near the table edge, and the Wraiths on their other side. Next to the Wraiths was the Monolith, towards the middle was the Immortals, the Tomb Spider in a ruin to the left on my Redeemers, and the Heavy Destroyer even further afield with it almost at the left-hand table edge.

 

Turn 1) He failed the take initiative, so I moved out my Redeemers, angling them to engage the Immortals with my left Redeemer, and the defenders of their objective with the other; both easily got with in Assault Cannon range. My mini-Purg squad was out of range, so held their position. Firing comensed, with two Immortals and one Destroyer knocked down. No assault.

 

He started off with res'ing one of the Immortals, however, the destroyer stayed dead. Now it was his move. He turbo'd the Wraiths to within inches of my objective, moved his Destroyers towards the same target, and held fast with the rest. The firing started with a ray of gauss beams glancing the nearer Redeemer with two immobalizations, which lead to the Assault Cannon being removed. The Monolith flung a pie plate at the other Redeemer, got a pen and took out the the left-hnad Firestorm Cannon, while the Destroyers succeeded in removing a single GK from my mini-Purgs. And the Tomb Spiber birthed some scarabs.

 

Turn 2) I rolled for deep strikers, and got a go on all three, leaving my with some hard choices. I finially decided on placeing the Callidus on top of their objective, with only three attacks and no wounds given. One BC landed without error just behind the Immortals, while the other landed just behind the first as he drifted from the intended landing site of just between the Immotals and ths Callidus. The still mobile Redeemer moved into template range and disembarked its cargo to set up a nice cross-fire between itself, the Strikers, and the BC's in back. The less mobile Redeemer disembarked its cargo to set up some of the same cross fire action. In the shooting phase, the Immortals were removed from play, as were the Wraiths and one more Destroyer. Again, no assaults.

 

The Necron Lord and his Warrior escorts chose that moment to arrive via the Monolith portal, and set up on the safe side of some area terrain. The Monolith scooted a bit towards the my objective, which was really just a sideways move as terrain and his own units restricted movement in most directions. The Destryors retreated/redeployed back to their Objective to add some firepower to the slaying of the Assassin in their midst, while the Heavy Destroyer moved for a clear shot at the mobile Redeemer. Shooting shedded the Firestorms off the immobile Redeemer with two more weapon hits, with the mobile Redeemer ignored those pesky attempts to glance it to death with no further damage taken. Of the foot-sloggers, the closer BC took a wound, while the Callidus lived up to her new rules and just barely died from the combined fire of 10 Warriors and 3 Destroyers. The Tomb Spider pooped out some more Scarabs.

 

Turn 3) With a need to bust up the cluster of Necrons around their Objective, the both Striker squads moved into range of the Lord and his minions, with the further unit coved by area terrain, while the closer unit backed away from the immobile Redeemer to line of sight the remaining Necrons on that side of the battlefield. The Brothers moved to deal with the defenders, while the mobile Redeemer dealt with the Heavy Destroyer. Shooting knocked down several Necros, but again, no assaults could be initiated.

 

The Heavy Destroyer was gone, but all the Warriors knocked down stood back up. The Destroyers move to confront the closer of the two Brothers, while the Lord, his minions, and the Monolith inched away from my side of the board, intent on removing my heroes from the field of battle. The Tomb Spider turbo'd from their hiding place toward my Objective, in an attempt to get away from my nearer Striker squad. Shooting killed one BC, wounded the other, and took two of GK's from my nearer Striker squad, yet the Redeemers took no additional damage. And the Tomb Spider pooped out yet more Scarabs.

 

Turn 4) The GK's continued to move towards their targets, setting up for long overdue close combat. The mobile Redeemer surged forth, popping smoke while bringing terror to the cold hearts of the Lord and his minions. Shooting saw the remaining Brother miss half his shots on the Destroyers, while failing to wound on the rest. The PAGK's faired better as they whittled down the Scarab "meat shield" around the Tomb Spider. Finally, assaults were initiated, with the three-man Striker team plunging into the swarm, while the BC charged the Destroyers. The Strikers held back on their initial attack, reserving their strength to focus their Nemesis weapons rather than hammering their foe. This was a fortuitous decision as their Psychic might shreaded the Scarab screen and sundered the Tomb Spider, as no retreat was allowed. When the brief combat came to a close, only the Justicar and a single Knight remained; the took tha opportunity to fall back inot the nearby ruins to reenforce their mini-Purg brethren. On the other side of the field, the remaining Brother found his foe difficult to pin down, yet slew one of the Destroyers out right with the razor focus of his mind, while dodging the incoming blows of its two companions.

 

Fearing the further slaughter that would unfold if the Destroyers remained locked in combat with the Grey Knight Hero, the Necron Lord pulled the Destroyers out of combat through the use of the Monolith portal. With all units now in place, the Lord unleashed a torrent of gauss fire that flayed the Brother-Captain to death. At the last moment, an arc of power hit the defending GK's that guarded their objective, killing all but the newly arrived Justicar and the two Psycannon weilding Knights.

 

Turn 5) Bounding into the Necron Lord's escort, the mobile Redeemer aligned its remaining Firestorm nozzle with the stunnned Warriors, while the full strength Striker squad as well as the defenders took careful aim on the hated Necron Lord. In a blaze of Psy-fueled fame, and the under a rain of silver Psy-bolter fire, the Necron Lord and his escort of Warrior were torn to bits.

 

As the powerful Lord fell, so too did his power to resurect. The remaining Necron units faided from the battlefield.

 

The Heroes of Titan won the day, but at a steap cost.

 

SJ