Masks of Death

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

History

7th Founding, Ultramarines geneseed

Orignally, the Masks of Death were stationed in the Eastern Fringe to combat the growing xenos threats located there. However, as time wore on the chapter let more and more xenos live for aiding them in their fight. Eventually, the younger and more puritan chapters that had been established in the later foundings decreed that such actions were unacceptable. The Masks were given two choices - a penitent crusade hunting down all of their former xeno allies, or leaving the Eastern Fringe and re-establishing themselves at the edge of the Eye of Terror. The shamed chapter chose the latter option, and withdrew their forces to their homeworld.

The Masks then began the journey to the Eye of Terror. As they moved deeper into the Imperium, they began encountering the xenos less and the forces of Chaos more. The Masks put down many rebellions and slowly gained experience on the forces and ways of Chaos, of their Dark Gods and how they twisted humanity into monsters and creatures incapable of any nobility or honor. It was during this period that they Masks of Death's unique beliefs began to take form. Everywhere they battled, they saw humans who were willing to fight and die for the Emperor, even against former comrades. Every time they quelled a rebellion, they found it's roots in some selfish or twisted individual. The Masks realised that Chaos was not merely an afront to the Emperor, it took His noble and righteous servants and destroyed all that made them worthy. However, the Masks also realised that it was a choice to serve Chaos, but they had put down enough despots to realise that this choice would only end in death.

Eventually, the Masks of Death reached the Eye of Terror. One of the nearby star systems was known as Morthra. It had a young star, Mora, and eight planets. Three of these were Hive Worlds, Thra primus, Secundus and Terteus. Four were simple mining worlds, run and protected by the Mechanicus and the last was an airless dead world. The Masks of Death decided on that system due to the Mechanicus's already extensive and powerful defenses, and settled on the dead world, naming it Silence.

The Masks eventually proved themselves worthy after a few centuries of having an unusually high resistance to Chaos. The chapter continued this psychological resilence for the rest of their history. Knowing they would also need their brothers' support for truly reclaiming their honor to the Imperium as a whole, the Masks began focusing their efforts towards diplomacy and gaining the trust of the other chapters. Many members of the First Company proved they had skill beyond simply slaughtering alongside their allied forces, they could truly connect with both other astartes and guardsmen alike. These veterans began serving as diplomats from the chapter to the many forces they fought alongside. A practice of selecting like-minded Masks as apprentices rose up, and a lodge was formed of these uniquely gifted astartes within the chapter. Eventually, they were given an official rank, that of Aquilas - that which unifies the Imperium. To this day, the rank of Aquila is one of the highest honors within the Masks of Death.

When the Masks's first started defending the Eye of Terror, the Legions were the dominant and most aggressive force, and the newer renegades had yet to become their own major power. The Legions launched many invasions that the Masks, their fellow chapters and many Imperial Guard regiments fought hard to repulse. One phrase was commonly used amongst all of those invaders, regardless of their respective Legions - that of fighting the Long War.

One chaplain had heard that phrase, many, many times when interrogating prisoners, and in one battle he shouted "We shall fight our own Long War to eradicate these filth!" The term spread quickly throughout the chapter, and eventually became one of the tenets of the Masks's beliefs - that their duty was to fight the Long War to destroy all the forces of Chaos, and thus, bring the greatest glory to the Emperor and keep Humanity safe.

Beliefs

The psycho-indoctrination and training adopted by the Masks of Death is extremely unusual. The recruits of the chapter are continually pitted against captured enemies that were not deemed too dangerous. In this way, the recruits are shown the weakness of those who follow Chaos, and how Chaos is defeatable even before becoming a full battle-brother. Gradually, this builds up an iron will against the temptations of Chaos, as for the years of training the recruits feel nothing but contempt for those who have fallen to Chaos.

Xenos are typically treated as though they are lacking in that strength and iron will. However, there are some who have proven themselves by fighting against Chaos as opposed to using it for their own benefit and by putting the destruction of Chaos above the destruction humans. The Masks will gladly fight alongside and even honor these xenos, but they are still xenos and are quickly exterminated after the threat of Chaos has passed. Another chapter usually aids them when this is required, however, to prove that the Masks did not shirk in their duties.

The Masks value self-control very highly. There are very few who will flagrantly waste ammunition or make great displays that serve no purpose. One of the stranger aspects of this self-control is that outside of the Aquilas, most of the chapter meets with outsiders completely armored. Personal anonymity is favored, for restraining oneself from forging their own name outside of the chapter is considered a method of preventing corruption from Chaos. Though every Mask would sooner give his name than offend an ally, the typical response for any gratitude is "Thank the chapter" or "The Masks do as the Emperor commands", deflecting attention away from themselves and sharing the honor with the entirety of the Masks of Death. Sacrificing personal glory for the benefit of all their brothers is seen both as one of the most noble acts a marine can make, and it takes a strong will and courage from every young recruit to do so.

Dreadnoughts are very highly revered, as they are regarded as having the strength to fight against death itself. Similarily, the machine spirits of every vehicle and suit of armor are inherently strong willed and powerful, and earn the same level of care from the Masks of Death.This respect has gone a long ways towards earning the forgiveness of the Adeptus Mechanicus, which has led to strong relations between them.

The Masks believe that the Emperor requires service that differs to each individual. This is due to the fact no individual has the same life - each one has different choices to make and paths to choose. However, what applies to all beings is that they must always seek to serve and glorify the Emperor with their choices and make decisions that do not necessarily better or benefit themselves but do better the future of mankind and grow the glory of the Emperor. Key to this is the fight against Chaos. Chaos is the complete contradiction of the Masks's beliefs, and so must be destroyed. Thus, xenos who fight against Chaos are in some small way furthering the glory of the Emperor and benefitting mankind. However, they are still xenos, who still wish nothing more than to see their own race furthered, and must still be destroyed for that.

Combat Doctrine

The Masks rely heavily on confusion and psychological tactics, focusing more on distracting and bewildering the enemy than outright destruction - at least until the destruction of the enemy is the only goal. This has earned many allies for the Masks of Death, as the chapter's willingness to and expertise at prolonging the battle has led to the recovery of many relics, prisoners of war, and vital information, often with no benefit to the Masks themselves, aside from the political connections made.

This is furthered by the fact most captains do take time to inform and work with their allies, as opposed to flaunting their astartes status and operating independently. The Masks have been known to even station a few units and techmarines to aid a devastated but salvageable world for many years, and in return the worlds supply recruits and materiel for the Masks of Death. These additional materiel and recruits allow the Masks's tendency to put their allies troops above their own to continue with little loss to the chapters operational capacity. The chapter's quest for forgiveness from the rest of the Imperium is what pushes the Masks to so readily sacrifice their own. The fact they are already held in high regard for their skill at binding together the disparate elements of the Imperium as well as the good-will the chapter so readily displays matters little to the Masks themselves, for forgiveness is either won completely or worthless.

Organization

The Masks of Death follow the Codex, with two key exceptions: Firstly, the Aquilas, a corp of diplomats raised by the chapter, with an Aquila accompanying every force sent by the Masks of Death. These diplomats are responsible for making sure that relations between the Masks and their allies is smooth, effective, and bringing mutual respect.

The second is that the captains and other ranking members of the Masks of Death bear very little to no personal heraldry. While given awards for exceptional service, these are kept as awards, stored in the Hall of Honor with the receiving marine's full name. This is a practice unique among the many chapters of the astartes, and reinforces the Mask's personal anonyminity.

Homeworld

The dead world of Silence has been turned into a veritable fortress world, the Masks digging and situating most of their Fortress Monastery, Secret, near the core of the planet. The surface is covered with defensive structures, ranging from the many ground to orbit lasers to the thousands of heavy bolters and lascannon turrets that cover the entrances to the hidden Fortress Monastery.

It is inside the planet that the recruits from the many worlds the Masks have helped are trained and prepared for the Long War. It is also where many prisoners are kept and are also prepared for their fights against the recruits. However, some of these prisoners are considered to dangerous to pitch against the recruits and are either interrogated and exectued.

Since the Masks of Death recruit from a variety of worlds, the recruits and the Masks deal with a variety of other cultures. In this way, the Masks show the recruits that there is much more in the universe than the recruits have experienced. In the teaching chambers in the depths of Secret, the recruits are also taught to handle these many varied people with the same pragmatism and caution that they will eventually need in fighting the Long War. They are also taught a variety of Gothic dialects and the basics of the more common xenos language, such as T'au and Eldar. The learning of xenos lanuages is a hotly disputed topic among the Masks. Some say that it is a direct boundary to reclaiming the chapter's honor, and others dispute that it is necessary to ensure there will always be success on the field of battle - a direct necessity for earning true respect.

War Cry

Throughout the entire chapter, when entering combat the commanding officer will shout "For Humanity!", and the squad will answer back with "For His Glory!"

The fact that the warcry is used by every squad in the chapter lends strength to the Masks's anonyminity and the appearance of lack of individual decisions.

Relations with other Imperial forces

Generally, the forces of the Imperium view the Masks with a mixture of respect and trust. The Adeptus Mechanicus has worked closely with the Masks in the past and they have shared many battles. In addition, the high status of machine spirits within the chapter furthers relations between the two.

The Inquisition is divided by it's various members. Many Radicals of the Ordo Xenos are very pleased with the Masks and their unintentional support, showing that the xenos can be used to destroy each other and Chaos. Others, such as the members of the Ordo Malleus and Ordo Hereticus, are distrusting of the Masks for their unusual doctrine and belief system. The Deathwatch either makes use of their skills as diplomats or doesn't consider them at all for their original shame.

Like the Inquisition, the members of the Adeptus Astartes are heavily divided. Some of the more honor and glory focused chapters - most notably the chapters who come from the geneseed of Dorn - view the Masks with only contempt, seeing their sins as unforgivable. Others, such as the Salamanders, Raven Guard, Blood Angels and their successors, welcome the Masks of Death as a fellow chapter that has performed well in the face of Chaos. Most, however, are like the Ultramarines, and simply reserve their opinions beneath a mask of diplomacy.

More on this later :cuss

[Ecritter]

Good to see you back in the fight DAT, I'll try to take a look at this when I get off work in the morning.

 

EDIT: found some time.

 

Due to being more open to xenos and having a mindset and combat doctrine more fitting to fighting Chaos, they were moved to guard the Eye of Terror rather than being destroyed.

 

I hope more info on this is coming.

 

Friendly to Xenos, but no one else it seems?

 

Recruits pitted against Chaos Marines = extremely hight mortality rate, low recruiting?

 

How is their reacting to order not to talk different from other chapters?

 

Overall, interesting idea ... will be watching for more.

[Ferrata]

Eventually reclaimed their honor after a few centuries of having a lower than usual desertment rate (for chapters around the Eye)

Due chapters around the Eye have a high desertment rate? I don't doubt that they would not, but this is a slight jump in logic from what is probably true to what is fact. Also, it is never a fantastic idea to compare yourself to other chapters, even if indirectly. This would be better explained as "a remarkable resistance to the temptations of Chaos". This circum-navigates any comparison and they just happen to be resistant. This could be due to them locking down their emotions, which the Chaos gods feed off. Without such feelings of hate, desire etc, Chaos would find it difficult to get a grip of any brother. This could link to the name of masks as each marine sees his helmet as a mask, one that shows nothing but a silent feature of death.

[NightrawenII]

History

 

7th Founding, Iron Hands geneseed

 

Originally stationed in the Eastern Fringe. Due to being more open to xenos and having a mindset and combat doctrine more fitting to fighting Chaos, they were moved to guard the Eye of Terror rather than being destroyed.

Ahem, the Iron Hands aren't exactly open-minded, in fact their mindset is exact opposite.

 

Second, How could be the Chapter open to xenos, but more fitting to fighting Chaos? What was that proverb again... An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded.

:P

 

Eventually reclaimed their honor after a few centuries of having a lower than usual desertment rate (for chapters around the Eye). Continues this psychological resilence for the rest of their history, their biggest lost being an understength company that had been fighting without support for a questionable amount of time* on a daemon world. *Time flows strangely in the Warp, so exactly how long they were in there is unknown, but the chapter suspects that the captain had been planning to betray for over 3 years and it took less than a day for the company to decide to rebel.

Agreed with Ferrata.

 

The theme is is kind of similar to Codex Grey's Warriors Eternal, though.

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

Good to see you back in the fight DAT, I'll try to take a look at this when I get off work in the morning.

 

EDIT: found some time.

 

Due to being more open to xenos and having a mindset and combat doctrine more fitting to fighting Chaos, they were moved to guard the Eye of Terror rather than being destroyed.

 

I hope more info on this is coming.

 

Friendly to Xenos, but no one else it seems?

 

Recruits pitted against Chaos Marines = extremely hight mortality rate, low recruiting?

 

How is their reacting to order not to talk different from other chapters?

 

Overall, interesting idea ... will be watching for more.

Believe it or not, the majority of the stuff that comes out of the Eye isn't Astartes :D Traitor Astartes would be considered far too dangerous and would be exterminated.

 

They aren't quite friendly to xenos, just they aren't "OMG WE KILL YOU ALL" to them either. I'll try and flesh that out, but I think it might need some more bones to that too.

 

The lack of communication and not saying anything is quite literal. While most chapters will typically allow their astartes to form their own connections with other members of the Imperium, the Masks might give you polite small talk andcombat information but won't ever go beyond that. To them, there are Masks, then there are outsiders, and there are enemies. Masks are equals, outsiders are not, and enemies are to be either killed or used.

 

While it can be more complex than that, as a general rule that is the Masks's mindset.

 

Eventually reclaimed their honor after a few centuries of having a lower than usual desertment rate (for chapters around the Eye)

Due chapters around the Eye have a high desertment rate? I don't doubt that they would not, but this is a slight jump in logic from what is probably true to what is fact. Also, it is never a fantastic idea to compare yourself to other chapters, even if indirectly. This would be better explained as "a remarkable resistance to the temptations of Chaos". This circum-navigates any comparison and they just happen to be resistant. This could be due to them locking down their emotions, which the Chaos gods feed off. Without such feelings of hate, desire etc, Chaos would find it difficult to get a grip of any brother. This could link to the name of masks as each marine sees his helmet as a mask, one that shows nothing but a silent feature of death.

 

I was iffy about comparing them as well. I ultimately decided to have that in there simply because it is those same brothers who judge the Mask's honor, and because of their failure the Masks did need to perform at a higher level than the other chapters to make up for it.

 

To your second point, about them wearing helmets as a mask, I was planning on expanding on that, which I'll do later in this post and update the first post with. As a general rule, that's how this chapter will be updated - both in the posts and on the first post.

 

History

 

7th Founding, Iron Hands geneseed

 

Originally stationed in the Eastern Fringe. Due to being more open to xenos and having a mindset and combat doctrine more fitting to fighting Chaos, they were moved to guard the Eye of Terror rather than being destroyed.

Ahem, the Iron Hands aren't exactly open-minded, in fact their mindset is exact opposite.

 

Second, How could be the Chapter open to xenos, but more fitting to fighting Chaos? What was that proverb again... An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded.

:mellow:

 

The theme is is kind of similar to Codex Grey's Warriors Eternal, though.

If they were carbon copies of the Iron Hands, what would make them interesting? I've never seen the Warriors Eternal, though. I'll look them up. Or, maybe not, because I don't want them to influence the Masks.

 

See my explanation on xenos above (which isn't really an explanation, but it'll do for now). Also, their beliefs as is already one better suited to fighting Chaos, even before it's fleshed out.

 

 

 

Beliefs (cont.)

 

The Masks believe that the Emperor requires service that differs to each individual. This is due to the fact no individual has the same life - each one has different choices to make and paths to choose. However, what applies to all beings is that they must always seek to serve and glorify the Emperor with their choices and make decisions that do not necessarily better or benefit themselves but do better the future of mankind and grow the glory of the Emperor.

 

Key to this is the fight against Chaos. Chaos is the complete contradiction of the Masks's beliefs, and so must be destroyed. Thus, xenos who fight against Chaos are in some small way furthering the glory of the Emperor and benefitting mankind. However, they are still xenos, who still wish nothing more than to see their own race furthered, and must still be destroyed for that.

 

The Masks realise that the rest of the Imperium does not necessarily see the way the Masks do. Thus, the Masks make use of their namesake, in that all battle-brothers wear helmets when not among brothers. Serfs and scouts are not excpetion to this.

This has led to an unofficial ornamentation of the helmets among the Masks as the battle brothers climb the ranks through the chapter.

[Leonaides]

This has led to an unofficial ornamentation of the helmets among the Masks...

and is fre to ornament it how he wishes.

If tis unnofficial ornamentation, then the mariens are free to ornament them how they wish. TBH, going into this much detail on trivia like this is not what you should be doing right now. Take this out, focus on the actual bones of your chapter, then maybe when you've sorted that out, put a few little flecks of detail in here and there.

By the way - do you intend on going back and properly sorting out any of your older chapters?

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

This has led to an unofficial ornamentation of the helmets among the Masks...

and is fre to ornament it how he wishes.

If tis unnofficial ornamentation, then the mariens are free to ornament them how they wish. TBH, going into this much detail on trivia like this is not what you should be doing right now. Take this out, focus on the actual bones of your chapter, then maybe when you've sorted that out, put a few little flecks of detail in here and there.

By the way - do you intend on going back and properly sorting out any of your older chapters?

That's what I was thinking as I wrote it, but I went ahead with it. I'll fix it, perhaps put it in later.

 

And yes, I do, but the two I really want to focus on are the Wraiths and the Lords of Shadow. The Wraiths are almost done - I actually searchied them and did minor edits the other day - but I'm lacking ideas on how to expand them and make them Librarium worthy. The Lords are running into similar problems, I don't know how I should expand on them either.

 

A lot of my other chapters I want to get back on, but the Masks have been burning in my head for a while, so I figured I would do them as a warm-up. They should be (relatively) easy as they aren't wildly divergent from the norm, but are unique enough to be interesting.

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

Oh, by the way, here's the scheme for them -

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

Geuss no one has any other comments about beliefs? All right, then -

 

Combat Doctrine

The Masks rely heavily on confusion and psychological tactics. This can range from combat squading the entire force to appear as though the Masks have a much larger force than they actually do to using Scout Squads to cause havoc around the commander, but not target the commander itself.

 

Since tactics are typically highly unconventional, most captains do take time to inform and work with their allies, as opposed to flaunting their astartes status and operating independently. The Masks have been known to even station a few units and techmarines to aid a devastated but salvageable world.

 

This ties in with the Masks's tendency to put their allies troops above their own, excepting other chapters - their sole purpose is to further Humanity and the glory of the Emperor through war, while other humans may eventually serve the Emperor in areas beside the Long War*.

 

 

*This tid-bit will eventually be added to the History and Beliefs, but it'll be added to the History first, and that after fleshing out.

[Leonaides]

This can range from combat squading the entire force to appear as though the Masks have a much larger force than they actually do to using a Rhino in a suicide ramming run to distract the enemy.

Remove this bit. This is nothign more than any other marine force might do anyway (the combat-squadding) and how many times do you envisage your marines loading up a venerated, honoured Rhino and using it as a fire-ship? them might do it very very occasionally (no more than any other chapter) but they absolutely wont do it often enough that it would be a 'notable tactic' of theirs. Just leave it as something like "The Masks make extensive use of 'unconventional warfare' methods including psychological and stealth attacks to degrade their enemies command elements and structures."

If you dont try to spell it out, it cant trip you up.

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

This can range from combat squading the entire force to appear as though the Masks have a much larger force than they actually do to using a Rhino in a suicide ramming run to distract the enemy.

Remove this bit. This is nothign more than any other marine force might do anyway (the combat-squadding) and how many times do you envisage your marines loading up a venerated, honoured Rhino and using it as a fire-ship? them might do it very very occasionally (no more than any other chapter) but they absolutely wont do it often enough that it would be a 'notable tactic' of theirs. Just leave it as something like "The Masks make extensive use of 'unconventional warfare' methods including psychological and stealth attacks to degrade their enemies command elements and structures."

If you dont try to spell it out, it cant trip you up.

 

1) That is a misinterpretation of what I was trying to write, so clearly I do need to spell it out :huh: I was going for a more 'on the field' unconventional tactics as opposed to it being planned as unusual.

 

2) The Rhino, not a squad in a Rhino.

 

3) Not all Rhinos are venerated. You're right, the situation you took it as doesn't make sense. A forge-fresh Rhino would probably be used instead. However, because of the trouble it caused, I'll put in a new example.

 

4) I didn't set up any notable tactics. Just examples.

 

Like I said, I'll set up new examples.

[Leonaides]

This can range from combat squading the entire force to appear as though the Masks have a much larger force than they actually do to using a Rhino in a suicide ramming run to distract the enemy.

Remove this bit. This is nothign more than any other marine force might do anyway (the combat-squadding) and how many times do you envisage your marines loading up a venerated, honoured Rhino and using it as a fire-ship? them might do it very very occasionally (no more than any other chapter) but they absolutely wont do it often enough that it would be a 'notable tactic' of theirs. Just leave it as something like "The Masks make extensive use of 'unconventional warfare' methods including psychological and stealth attacks to degrade their enemies command elements and structures."

If you dont try to spell it out, it cant trip you up.

 

1) That is a misinterpretation of what I was trying to write, so clearly I do need to spell it out :huh: I was going for a more 'on the field' unconventional tactics as opposed to it being planned as unusual.

 

2) The Rhino, not a squad in a Rhino.

 

3) Not all Rhinos are venerated. You're right, the situation you took it as doesn't make sense. A forge-fresh Rhino would probably be used instead. However, because of the trouble it caused, I'll put in a new example.

 

4) I didn't set up any notable tactics. Just examples.

 

Like I said, I'll set up new examples.

 

1 ) And the difference is??? They're marines, they will have planned exactly what they're going to do before they hit the ground. They dont hit the ground then each squad ad-libs on a theme like Jazz musicians...

2 ) Yep - thats waht I thought you meant.

 

3 ) No, every Rhino is venerated. Every single one. Its as important/if not more so than other battle brothers. Its not just a machine.

 

4 ) The way you phrase it, it seems like you're picking out specific examples, not just general ones. Its far far easier to not give any examples, and thus not appear to be picking out specific examples. You dont need to specify, and specifying will only cause problems.

[Roma]

Oh, by the way, here's the scheme for them -

LOL its a christmas tree! Nice fluff, but i beg u change the color.

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

1) That is a misinterpretation of what I was trying to write, so clearly I do need to spell it out :P I was going for a more 'on the field' unconventional tactics as opposed to it being planned as unusual.

2) The Rhino, not a squad in a Rhino.

3) Not all Rhinos are venerated. You're right, the situation you took it as doesn't make sense. A forge-fresh Rhino would probably be used instead. However, because of the trouble it caused, I'll put in a new example.

4) I didn't set up any notable tactics. Just examples.

Like I said, I'll set up new examples.

1 ) And the difference is??? They're marines, they will have planned exactly what they're going to do before they hit the ground. They dont hit the ground then each squad ad-libs on a theme like Jazz musicians...

2 ) Yep - thats waht I thought you meant.

3 ) No, every Rhino is venerated. Every single one. Its as important/if not more so than other battle brothers. Its not just a machine.

4 ) The way you phrase it, it seems like you're picking out specific examples, not just general ones. Its far far easier to not give any examples, and thus not appear to be picking out specific examples. You dont need to specify, and specifying will only cause problems.

1. Becuase what happens always adheres to battle plan Also, I did word it poorly, I should have said that it applies in both situations, on the field and in the plans.

2) That isn't what you wrote though - you wrote loading up a squad of marines and using the rhino as a fireship.

3) Incorrect. If you read the Predator entry it talks about the top Predators as being venerated as heroes. Predators. I doubt that chapters who don't have an Iron Hand approach to machinery will venerate a fresh Rhino.

4) These are specific examples. These aren't typical Astartes tactics and their intent is to challenge what the opposing force expects and believes.

Also, I didn't replace the examples before. My apoligies, I'll do that now.

Roma - It could be worse, but I'll see what I can do ;)

EDIT: Better?

[Ferrata]

I concur that the original scheme was quite...bad :P With the new, I would suggest maybe darkening one of the two colours a little to make them a little more distinct.

 

The veneration of the tanks is a fine point - the basic Rhino will not be venerated like a warhero but they will be held in reserve as great warmachines. They will treat a rhino like they treat their bolters - holy weapons of war that aid them in battle :lol:

[Leonaides]

your marines loading up a venerated, honoured Rhino and using it as a fire-ship

Note - not loading a squad of marines into a Rhino and using it as a fireship.

 

Then, 1 ) exactly the same as any other marine chapter might do then. So you're wasting your time typing, and my time reading, telling me that water is wet.

 

Every machine used to carry marines is carefully crafted, hours of prayers and rituals have gone into it and it has earnt its place as a weapon and chariot of war just as much as a new battle brother has earnt his place in the chapter. Venerated as a mighty hero of the chapter or not - they're certainly valued far more than to simply fill with explosives and drive straight at the enemy on anything like a regular basis. And if its that rare an occasion, its certainly not worth putting in an IA. Its like saying that your football team excells in scoring 98th minute winning goals because once, in 1974, they did and won a cup competition.

 

These aren't typical Astartes tactics and their intent is to challenge what the opposing force expects and believes.

And this bit? This is exactly the sort of thing marines do. Asymetrical warfare, unconventional tactics, misdirection, psychological warfare... This is what marines are. It doesnt necessarily translate very well onto a table-top, but it is what they do fluff-wise. Drop pods? Misdirection, attackign where the enemy dont expect them, at a time they dont expect them. Fast-moving assaults, able to change their location before the enemy can react? Rhinos, Razorbacks, Predators, Landspeeders. Long-ranging infiltrations forces? Scouts, LS Storms, etc. Thunderhawks, StormRavens, etc...

 

No enemy actually expects marines when marines choose the fight. They dont plan for an attack by marines at a certain time like they might with IG or Orks, Or Nids, etc. And if they do expoect the battle, then your marines probably didint get to choose the battle on their own terms (either holding an objective or unusually reduced mobility for some reason) - which means its irrelevant when talking about battle-tactics your marines specialise in.

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

your marines loading up a venerated, honoured Rhino and using it as a fire-ship

Note - not loading a squad of marines into a Rhino and using it as a fireship.

 

What's the difference? And seriously look at your own post, the very first counterargument was stating what I did, venerable and all.

 

These aren't typical Astartes tactics and their intent is to challenge what the opposing force expects and believes.

/snip\

 

Yes and no. I'll acede to your point, however, and change it to better convey my intentions.

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

By the way, here's the new version -

 

Combat Doctrine

The Masks rely heavily on confusion and psychological tactics, focusing more on distracting and bewildering the enemy than out right destruction - at least until the destruction of the enemy is the only goal.

 

This has earned many allies for the Masks of Death, as the chapter's willingness to and expertise at prolonging the battle has led to the recovery of many relics, prisoners of war, and vital information, often with no benefit to the Masks themselves, aside from the political connections made.

 

This is furthered by the fact most captains do take time to inform and work with their allies, as opposed to flaunting their astartes status and operating independently. The Masks have been known to even station a few units and techmarines to aid a devastated but salvageable world for many years, and in return the worlds supply recruits and materiel for the Masks of Death.

 

These additional materiel and recruits allow the Masks's tendency to put their allies troops above their own to continue with little loss to the chapters operatioal capacity. This tendency is caused by their beliefs - Their sole purpose is to further Humanity and the glory of the Emperor through war, while other humans may eventually serve the Emperor in areas beside the Long War.

[NightrawenII]

3) Incorrect. If you read the Predator entry it talks about the top Predators as being venerated as heroes. Predators. I doubt that chapters who don't have an Iron Hand approach to machinery will venerate a fresh Rhino.

Well, the Masks are Iron Hands successor... :P

EDIT: Better?

Dunno. ;)

It's not the same, but it's still suspiciously similar.

These additional materiel and recruits allow the Masks's tendency to put their allies troops above their own to continue with little loss to the chapters operatioal capacity. This tendency is caused by their beliefs - Their sole purpose is to further Humanity and the glory of the Emperor through war, while other humans may eventually serve the Emperor in areas beside the Long War.

The problem is that the allied forces will be most likely Imperial Guard, whose (sole) duty is fight and die for Emperor, not dissimilar to your own duty. Thus no fuss, over must.

This belief would be applicable to the civilians, though.

Second, if they value allied forces over their own, it would result in higher losses for the Chapter and constant understrenght status.

[Leonaides]

as the chapter's willingness to and expertise at prolonging the battle

Are you sure you really want this? Why would your marines want to fiddle about letting heretics and xenos live a single second longer than is necessary? If all that misdirection doesnt actually serve to make the battle quicler, then whats the point? Surely their time is valuable, if only for the fact that the longer they take pacifying one enemy means another 2 or 3 have conquered more worlds and slain more of the Emperors worshipers, thus these guys are fialing at their duty...?

[Ferrata]

Are you sure you really want this? Why would your marines want to fiddle about letting heretics and xenos live a single second longer than is necessary? If all that misdirection doesnt actually serve to make the battle quicler, then whats the point? Surely their time is valuable, if only for the fact that the longer they take pacifying one enemy means another 2 or 3 have conquered more worlds and slain more of the Emperors worshipers, thus these guys are fialing at their duty...?

Maybe the chapter believes that an Imperial life being saved is more important than an Xenos or traitor being killed (kind of the opposite to Marines Malovent). So, they might choose to take the slower approach to war if it means that they, and the Imperium, recieve fewer casualities.

[NightrawenII]

Well, this is the ages old question; What is more important trees or the forrest?

 

:)

[Arkangilos]

And everyone will have differant view points.

 

If he wants his space marines to care more about the Imperial citizens surviving, then he can certainly do that. You know, maybe his chapter believes that by saving the Allied troops, the Allied troops might be able to achieve another victory elsewhere, or even decide to help him if there is ever a need.

It makes sense to me.

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

Well, this is the ages old question; What is more important trees or the forest?

 

:lol:

Regardless of what the correct answer to that answer is, the Masks believe that the trees are what make the forest important :D

 

Also, the Brazen Claws will be donating a team of veterans to found the chapter now B)

[Leonaides]

Sorry, maybe I wasnt quite as clear - example to follow:

1 company of marines sent to a system with 3 worlds under attack. They do their 'usual' obfuscationary tactics on world 1, but the extra time this takes means that the other 2 worlds suffer more because the marines take so long to get there that many more imperial soldiers die on 2 other worlds than the marines managed to save on the first world. So their diversionary tactics actually cost more lives than a 'joe bloggs' chapter who just go and do it by the numbers. No?