Azekai Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 After a hasty perusal of the new daemon hunter dex, I did not see any inclusion of the old allies rules from 3rd Ed. Is this no longer an option or did I miss something? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228050-gk-allies/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnowThyEnemy Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 nope, 'fraid not. unless you use witch hunters of course :( Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228050-gk-allies/#findComment-2732354 Share on other sites More sharing options...
number6 Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 Allies are going the way of the dodo. No units in the Grey Knights army may ally to any other army. Though I've already heard of people trying to abuse the idea of Grey Knights being capable of allying to Witch Hunters armies because of the language in the print codex. :( Though that language is missing from the free PDF codex, of course. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228050-gk-allies/#findComment-2732356 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 Wow that is really sad !! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228050-gk-allies/#findComment-2732361 Share on other sites More sharing options...
breng77 Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 You want sad, I've heard people argue that you can still take allies from the Daemonhunters Codex, because Codex: Greyknights is not the same as Codex:Daemon Hunters. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228050-gk-allies/#findComment-2732372 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azekai Posted April 21, 2011 Author Share Posted April 21, 2011 This is disheartening. So much for my inquisitorial ally forces for my Iron Hands. Not sure why they would make this move from an economic standpoint . . . If they had ally rules, everyone might be tempted to buy some new shiny paladins or whatnot. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228050-gk-allies/#findComment-2732387 Share on other sites More sharing options...
breng77 Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 They made it from a game balance stand point, allies in other armies tended to be overpowered, in addition they were only available to imperial armies. Making a game balanced (not that this one is) is hard enough with stand alone codices, let alone figuring out all the broken combos that allies bring to the field (inquisitor + mysitics in the old codex.) If armies like guard could take squads with warp quake for deepstrike defense, Blood angels could take units with servo skulls (- 1d6 form 1d6 means BA don't scatter), or take Paladins (feel no pain + furious charge for 130 points cheaper than just Feel no pain.) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228050-gk-allies/#findComment-2732396 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 You want sad, I've heard people argue that you can still take allies from the Daemonhunters Codex, because Codex: Greyknights is not the same as Codex:Daemon Hunters. Yeah that is the worst !! ^_^ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228050-gk-allies/#findComment-2732541 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Valerius Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 Though I've already heard of people trying to abuse the idea of Grey Knights being capable of allying to Witch Hunters armies because of the language in the print codex. :mellow: Though that language is missing from the free PDF codex, of course. To be honest, that maneuver really wouldn't bother me. Sure, it's an obvious slap in the face to the intent of the rules... but the intent of the rules is stupid, in this case. The allies rule was great and made for the ability to add some excellent flavor to your army. As I wholeheartedly disagree with its removal, I would be cheering on anyone who wants to use a loophole in the rules to circumvent said removal. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228050-gk-allies/#findComment-2732750 Share on other sites More sharing options...
breng77 Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 The allies rule was great and made for the ability to add some excellent flavor to your army. As I wholeheartedly disagree with its removal, I would be cheering on anyone who wants to use a loophole in the rules to circumvent said removal. The issue is that most people were using it to add some Cheese to their army not some flavor, not much flavor in an Inquisitor with 2-3 mystics, and an emperors Tarot showing up in every guard army, or a GK brother captain with a table wide hood showing up in various armies just for the hood. Allies could be great if it were more widely available and carefully monitored to disallow said cheese. I would not oppose allies in a friendly game for a fluffy scenario, but for tournament play allies have been terrible for pretty much all of 5E. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228050-gk-allies/#findComment-2732764 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmk17 Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 nope, 'fraid not. unless you use witch hunters of course ^_^ But remember, that Mystics aren't in the Witch Hunters Codex. ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228050-gk-allies/#findComment-2733360 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Requiemnex Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 Its true.. Mystics arent. However things like the OLD callidus are and for 120 points 140 with the elite inquisitor she is a LOT of bang for her buck. Also there are other combinations that you can use. For instance taking an Inquisitor Lord to get access to a landraider in your guard list. There are tons of exploits when you think of it.. From a fluffy fun stand point I think the allies is cool. The problem is since the interweb came out and people started sharing information and building communities surrounding hobbies such as this. The metgame becomes almost standardized nationwide and various tricks and exploits become an infection on the gaming communities as a whole making companies like gamesworkshop have to really think before they release something that is 100% game breaking in some way, shape, or form. Granted the codex creep that we have seen lately has been huge steps but even if you look back to rogue trader erra the statlines and rules are MUCH different. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228050-gk-allies/#findComment-2733446 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheezeFezt Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 nope, 'fraid not. unless you use witch hunters of course :tu: But remember, that Mystics aren't in the Witch Hunters Codex. ;) Hehehehe, Grey Knights aren't Demon Hunters (in Demon Hunters the Inquisitor is the main dude and gk his pawn whereas in Grey Knights the main dudes are the GK), so Codex: Demon Hunters isn't replaced by Codex: Grey Knight. So IG can still ally with Codex: Demon Hunter. Smack head on tables repeatedly and ask myself why do I play against these guys. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228050-gk-allies/#findComment-2733625 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thor1234 Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 I was talking with my Local store manager recently and his colleague at a near by store has come up with the biggest loophole in the rules to date....... NOWHERE IN THE BRB OR CODEXES DOES IT SPECIFY YOUR ARMY MUST COME FROM ONE CODEX!!!! it only "suggests" we spent four hours running a fine tooth pick through the rules and found nothing to dispute it other than: "but you just can't do that" so if you are playing a 1500 point game you can do 1000ponts of guard and 500 points of grey knights...... in theory not that I am a rules lawyer in fact i hate the idea which is why this situation annoyed me so much!! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228050-gk-allies/#findComment-2734110 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 Suggest nothing, its right on pg. 81 of codex:GK. USING A FORCE ORGANIZATION CHARTThe army list is used in conjunction with the force organization chart from a scenario. Each chart is split into five categories that correspond to the sections in the army list, and each category as one or more boxes. Each grey-toned box indicates that you may take on choice from that section of the army list, while a dark toned box indicates a compulsory selection. Similar wording is used above in "Using the army list". There is nowhere on the page that suggests you may use anything other than C:GK. Indeed, the quote above references continually using the army list- not lists, not the army list and another army list, but purely a singular term. I dont know exactly where you guys were looking, but its all right there. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228050-gk-allies/#findComment-2734325 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted April 24, 2011 Share Posted April 24, 2011 On a side-note, has anyone considered allying Sisters into our Knight lists? They're better than Henchmen at anti-infantry and tarpitting, and they add more power-armoured bodies at half the price of a comparable Strike squad. Something like this could come in handy; - VSS w/combi-melta+Book, 2 x Sisters w/meltaguns, 7 x Sisters (159 points) Steal a Strike squads Rhino (just Deepstrike them off a servo-skull instead), you've got essentially a melta-Veteran squad with better saves, Leadership, and crazy 'Acts of Faith' to choose from. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228050-gk-allies/#findComment-2734938 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted April 24, 2011 Share Posted April 24, 2011 With the added bonus that after you win, you can kill any remaining sisters and bathe in thier blood! Blood for the blood god! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228050-gk-allies/#findComment-2734981 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joasht Posted April 24, 2011 Share Posted April 24, 2011 This is disheartening. So much for my inquisitorial ally forces for my Iron Hands. Not sure why they would make this move from an economic standpoint . . . If they had ally rules, everyone might be tempted to buy some new shiny paladins or whatnot. My old GKs were used as allied forces back in 3rd ed., since at that time Grey Knight Terminators were the gold standard for Terminators in the days back when Cyclone Missiles were Heavy 1, Storm Shields were 4+ in melee only, etc.. S6 I4 Terminators......good stuff. So when this came out, I jumped on the bandwagon, since I already had some parts in place ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228050-gk-allies/#findComment-2735441 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 With the added bonus that after you win, you can kill any remaining sisters and bathe in thier blood! Blood for the blood god! Haha nice. (srs face) I find that story in the codex pretty interesting, as it sorta taps into the whole 'we win at any cost' concept that Grey Knights embody. Like, they don't care what has to sacrificed along the way, so long as victory is theirs. I know there is are people who complain that it's not in keeping with Knights (the same crowd who moan about 'sorcery' being used freely to describe what Knights do), but I thought it wasn't especially 'out there' stuff TBH. It's rather like the brain meltdown suffered on Whineseer over Draigo; taken out of context and exaggerated, it seems silly, but when you actually read the entry, its fine. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228050-gk-allies/#findComment-2737282 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Sefiel Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 Hello They probably want people to use allies in Apocalypse, so it seems a little unnecessary to have them in normal games of 40K. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228050-gk-allies/#findComment-2737297 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Tharand Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 Wasn't the ally rule removed from the .PDF version of the codex? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228050-gk-allies/#findComment-2737595 Share on other sites More sharing options...
XaClocKWorKoX Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 theory hammer. if you use the dex:DH your updated models would then be gimp cause you can not use the updated items in the Dex:GK though i do miss my all grey knights are fearless and have S6 but Hi my new greyknights are hitting first with halbreds with more attacks and ohhhhh will gib you off the table before you think twice. though we both are rolling 4s to hit oh and my two wound paladins are only 5 points more for 1 more wound then your vanilla terms. i kind of like the concept of keeping a pure GK army i never did play with allies when using the old codex. besides why would you want to have allies when you have 35 point monkeys that are walking leman russ's anyways Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228050-gk-allies/#findComment-2737625 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellios Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 oh and my two wound paladins are only 5 points more for 1 more wound then your vanilla terms. i kind of like the concept of keeping a pure GK army i never did play with allies when using the old codex. besides why would you want to have allies when you have 35 point monkeys that are walking leman russ's anyways Pretty sure my terminators are not 50pts ^^ unless I'm playiong space wolves... then maybe... Well... I used to take a radical -][- and daemonhosts + inducted space marines (or the otherway round) as one of my armies = Relictors! You also get people like me who prefer the henchman style army... where you might prefer to have guard armour rather than grey knights.... How I wish giving power armour to warrior acolytes didn't make them more expensive and inferior to sisters... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228050-gk-allies/#findComment-2737644 Share on other sites More sharing options...
XaClocKWorKoX Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 oh and my two wound paladins are only 5 points more for 1 more wound then your vanilla terms. i kind of like the concept of keeping a pure GK army i never did play with allies when using the old codex. besides why would you want to have allies when you have 35 point monkeys that are walking leman russ's anyways Pretty sure my terminators are not 50pts ^^ unless I'm playiong space wolves... then maybe... Well... I used to take a radical -][- and daemonhosts + inducted space marines (or the otherway round) as one of my armies = Relictors! You also get people like me who prefer the henchman style army... where you might prefer to have guard armour rather than grey knights.... How I wish giving power armour to warrior acolytes didn't make them more expensive and inferior to sisters... i was talking old DEX vs new DEX no other armys Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228050-gk-allies/#findComment-2740072 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 Old GKT were 46 points each. ;) So Pallies are 9 points more expensive! :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228050-gk-allies/#findComment-2740081 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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