Tactics: Fenrisian Wolves

[maverik_girl]

so a fellow claw wrote me today asking about Fenrisian Wolves:

 

I happened to see your battle report on a list that included the fenrisian wolves. My buddy and i are having a debate on wether they're a waste of points or not due to the fact that im trying them out this weekend, so i was curious: how did the unit perform in your army?

 

this one's for you wolf brother Rayray!

 

My own personal opinions on Fenrisian Wolves are that, if you want to play for fun and for fluff, I say go for it! I only do so for the fluff. Which I find pretty sad considering more new wolf players are only in it today to WIN. I'd like to think that real wolf players aren't afraid to try out something different. With Saga of the Wolfkin all Fenrisian Wolves in your Space Wolves army get Initiative 5 and Leadership 7. It's certainly worth it for the points especially if you have a handful of points left over, but even without the saga they are just as useful. Fenrisian Wolves can't claim objectives, but this doesn't mean that they can't contest them!

 

There are many fast attack choices that will take priority over Fenrisian Wolves, but in my opinion they're not a bad choice! if your going to take Fen Wolves, it's best to take them in 10. So that's 80pts right there. There's no point in getting 5, cause they would just die quickly, and taking 15 is just more points that could go somewhere more useful. I learned that from my previous game!

 

Fen Wolves lack that armour save so this means you need to keep them in cover! ALWAYS keep them in cover! or have them in reserve, especially if you know your opponent will deepstrike or infiltrate near your Long Fangs. I keep my Fen Wolves behind rhino's or land raiders, and tend to use Fen Wolves as a counter attack pack. It works wonders! I have my Grey Hunters rapid fire on a unit, and whatever doesn't get killed from the rapid fire, my Fen Wolves go in with the counter attack with their long charge range. I honestly find it funny how allot of opponents forget about Thunder wolves or Fen wolves charge range.

 

But remember to only take on enemy units with low armour values. So choose your targets in a smart way when sending in your Fen Wolves! You want them to make up for their points! so keeping them alive long enough is a task during the first and second turns. I've had Fen wolves slow down and tie up dangerous units, even terminator units. It's a good tactic, but don't always count on it! good luck! and I hope I helped. I'm sure more people on here with more experience than I can help you or even give more tactics and insight.

[hendrik]

while i agree on your tactics i'm not sure if fenrisian wolves as a codex unit are really that fluffy (no pun intended). but then again i'm still not convinced of the space wolves riding wolves either so <_<

[maverik_girl]

Thank you big brother! <_<

 

I like to have two plasma guns on my Grey Hunters, so having to rapid fire against units is good and fun! so whatever doesn't get killed from the rapid fire, usually comes in to charge my Grey Hunters, in turn I'm obligated to counter-attack, therefore slowing up my hunters for another turn and potentially wasting my Grey Hunter's worth in setting up against another unit. But having Fen Wolves go in for the counter-attack, solves this small issue and makes the difference.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

i'm the friend rayray was talking with.

 

my beefs with the puppies comes from the fact i can always find a better use for those 80 pts for a 10 wolf unit:

a whirlwind tank

5 scouts

5 GHs

2 Rhino tanks

Lone Wolves

upgrade a Battle Leader to a Lord

Upgrade the guns in a Long Fang pack.

a souped up Land Speeder

a lone, SS+TH Thunderwolf

 

so points wise, there are better purchases.

 

now with only 3 FA choices, when i put points into my FA slots there is alot of competition for those slots. Thunderwolf Cavalry and Land Speeders are both amazing, and swftclaws and skyclaws are also good purchases. so with these very good choices, the Fen Wolf has low LD and no armor. kinda hard to take them when the other options are so much better.

 

and finally, fluff wise. until this most recent edition, large packs of Wolves werent a unit option for "standard" Space Wolf armies. only the 13th Company, themselves so strong and beastial, were capable of taking packs of them into battle. in no strong fluff instance were mass packs of Wolves fielded alongside "standard" Space Wolves. Sure, we had a few attached to a particuliarly able/strong leader, but no mass packs that we field today. so sadly, the fluff doesnt support (yet) the use of mass packs of Wolves in battle.

 

WLK

[MaveriK]

Their also good to keep your opponent from flanking you, on an unprotected table edge. The key is to have your opponent focus on other more dangerous packs in your army, to help keep the Fen Wolves alive long enough to make up for their point cost. Kinda like how most of the time, your opponent gets tunnel vision once they see you have a vindicator tank on the table. Anyway, 80pts worth of Fen Wolves in larger games is nothing. Having 10 of them is a good size, because that's potentially 30 sum attacks right there!

 

If your troops can't reach an objective in time, use the Fen Wolves to contest it long enough until someone in your wolf army can hold the objective. Most people use Fen Wolves as a screen, keeping Grey Hunter's or Blood Claws safe, but I think that's just a waste of 80pts because it's like shooting at Dark Eldar.... cardboard! There are much better ways to keep your troop choices safe than wasting a Fen Wolf screen, correction.. a 30 attacks, long ranged charging, screen of fur! So keeping them back, and protected is a better option! use them as a counter-attack pack like Blood Claws. And just like Claws, their only scary and efficient in assault. Target priority is important, these guys eat up guard and low armored troops for breakfast and poop it out just in time for brunch.

[maverik_girl]

i'm the friend rayray was talking with.

 

my beefs with the puppies comes from the fact i can always find a better use for those 80 pts for a 10 wolf unit:

a whirlwind tank

5 scouts

5 GHs

2 Rhino tanks

Lone Wolves

upgrade a Battle Leader to a Lord

Upgrade the guns in a Long Fang pack.

a souped up Land Speeder

a lone, SS+TH Thunderwolf

 

so points wise, there are better purchases.

 

now with only 3 FA choices, when i put points into my FA slots there is alot of competition for those slots. Thunderwolf Cavalry and Land Speeders are both amazing, and swftclaws and skyclaws are also good purchases. so with these very good choices, the Fen Wolf has low LD and no armor. kinda hard to take them when the other options are so much better.

 

and finally, fluff wise. until this most recent edition, large packs of Wolves werent a unit option for "standard" Space Wolf armies. only the 13th Company, themselves so strong and beastial, were capable of taking packs of them into battle. in no strong fluff instance were mass packs of Wolves fielded alongside "standard" Space Wolves. Sure, we had a few attached to a particuliarly able/strong leader, but no mass packs that we field today. so sadly, the fluff doesnt support (yet) the use of mass packs of Wolves in battle.

 

WLK

all very valid reasons! and I understand were your coming from. I did however mention that, I only did so or can in general... if you want to play for fun and for fluff. Not book fluff, just personal fluff or if you like the idea of it in general like the 13th company, or a list tailored to the 13th company. I mean how many other astartes chapters do you see that can do the same? uniqueness is what caught my eye with the Space Wolves chapter! Black Templars coming second as my favorite. I don't know about you, but I'd rather have a pack of wolves than a swarm of bats for blood angels or a flock of sheep for Ultramarines. Sure we have better options in the fast attack slot, and not to mention to waste on 80pts.

 

As I've mentioned before, there are other fast attack choices that will take priority over Fen Wolves. I guess it's just a matter of choice and skill on using Fen Wolves over something more logical in practice and on paper. I myself find it more rewarding if I pull off a win using units taken for granted, such as Fen Wolves over units or tanks that will guarantee a sure win. Not to mention, I'd like to think that I gain, that more respect if I use something different and unpractical.. or even "barbaric"? as suppose to the units you've mentioned in general. In larger games, it's easier to play with the point cost, and in Armageddon games, does it even matter what you want to use? again, all very valid reasons on your behalf and there is nothing wrong with it. In the end, it's the person who rolls the dice who makes all the call.

 

EDIT: sorry trying out the new blackberry playbook, it's not loving the forums at the moment :D

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

i find myself playing for fun and sagas. i make the choices in game play to achieve my saga first, enjoy the game second and to win third.

 

that said, i wont handicap myself by taking what i see to be such a useless unit. i already give my opponents a massive advantage by touching dice (i am cursed with the ability to roll 3 1's on a single d6) that i refuse to put myself further in the hole.

 

if it works for you though, GREAT! the great part about being a Wolf is our individuality!

 

WLK

[maverik_girl]

i find myself playing for fun and sagas. i make the choices in game play to achieve my saga first, enjoy the game second and to win third.

 

that said, i wont handicap myself by taking what i see to be such a useless unit. i already give my opponents a massive advantage by touching dice (i am cursed with the ability to roll 3 1's on a single d6) that i refuse to put myself further in the hole.

 

if it works for you though, GREAT! the great part about being a Wolf is our individuality!

 

WLK

Completely agreed! if it wasn't useful, or practical then it shouldn't be in the codex in the first place. But since it is, then it's an option for anybody. Not the first mind you but an option nonetheless. Happy hunting to both yourself and fellow claw Rayray. And try not to overkill my fellow claw! :D

[MaveriK]

mercy is for the weak! there is only ale, glory and war!

[Arez]

mercy is for the weak! there is only ale, glory and war!

:D

sory for the remp thread jack maverik_girl

 

marverik can you go over to the sparring thread for a minute please :P ;)

[Forté]

mercy is for the weak! there is only ale, glory and war!

;)

sory for the remp thread jack maverik_girl

 

marverik can you go over to the sparring thread for a minute please

Hijacker

 

As for the fen wolves. Not too sure if it really is fluff to have a Pack running with them. Can't see a full pack being on battlebarges. Two as valued companions, completely. Think that was started with the old Russ model in the 80's.

 

As for viable...why not. They are quick, up to 24" with a good run roll. Good attacks and ore only 8 points each. Would prefer to use then than the pricey Skyclaws and they add a feral look too.

[Brannrik]

I often use fen wolves as a meat shield for my twc wolf lord. just keep them in cover and they are extremely hard to take out fast enough. ofc you can do that probably within 1 turn still but would have to focus all you fire on them - and lets be honest: who wants his whole 1500-2000pts army to fire on a 80-120 pts unit? And as for close combat they dont have grenades so keep that in mind!!!! but exept those they hit like your normal grey hunters in cc and even better with saga of the wolfkin due to I5! I realy like these little guys, just make sure you dont expose them to rapid fire or anything the like und keep the cover!

[Orphus]

Wolves are interesting and I do want some it's just that...well their saves ;) ...rapid-fire fodder...need to get myself some of trees a forest for them to hide in.

[Wolf Guard Nostromo]

I often use fen wolves as a meat shield for my twc wolf lord. just keep them in cover and they are extremely hard to take out fast enough. ofc you can do that probably within 1 turn still but would have to focus all you fire on them - and lets be honest: who wants his whole 1500-2000pts army to fire on a 80-120 pts unit? And as for close combat they dont have grenades so keep that in mind!!!! but exept those they hit like your normal grey hunters in cc and even better with saga of the wolfkin due to I5! I realy like these little guys, just make sure you dont expose them to rapid fire or anything the like und keep the cover!

Agree whole-heartily with this - its where they fit into my force - give them to a thunderlord and enjoy the attention they attract and repel - they are easy to underestimate and very quick.

 

While i agree with Kieron about the others options for 80 points, I honestly believe that 15 of them (with the wolfkin saga) turn a 200 point thunderlord into 320 point wave of death. Are they going to win the battle single handed? No! But are they tough enough compared to their points cost? Certainly. Think of them as rapid orks - T4 with a 12" charge for 8 points... bargain! Against certain foes I5/T4 is genuinely enough - Even without the lord, I've watch 15 of them charge and eventually wipeout such units as 10 bloodletters, a mob of 20 orks with Nob and even a unit of TH/SS terminators. That was amusing. That many WS4 S4 attacks is not to be snivelled at. Remember you can seperate them from the thunderlord at the key moment and charge two units - this is also something opponents don't expect.

 

Nos.

[Rune_Priest_Rhapsody]

...i already give my opponents a massive advantage by touching dice (i am cursed with the ability to roll 3 1's on a single d6) that i refuse to put myself further in the hole...

 

WLK

 

I killed Grimnar this way just last week. Well it was the attacking IG Commissar that did the wounding, I just rolled like I was trying to loose the game. Which I did.

 

I ran with the pack for a while as well. I, like yourself Maverik_Girl, wanted a very fluffy-wolfy army by look. My meager experience with them left me with two strong points or concerns even. The first being already touched upon with the topic of cover. With such a low save this FA option is by far the least resilient of the options, so when I can I always kept them hiding behind something bigger. This is just simple logic I realize, and really is the catalyst for reason two. Two words for yah here. Tar. Pit. While they do die rather easily to gun fire, they are different in close combat against troops. I remember one game against Eldar when I assaulted a unit of Wraithguard with the puppies. Their T5 was not easy to get through for me, which worked great to my advantage, since I wasn't getting hit with those blasted guns they fire...

 

I ended up trading off the pack (I used the WHF Goblin Wolf Riders wolves) for a rhino and some bits that I needed badly, and I do regret that decision now as the supposed official Thunder Wolf release approaches. I guess what I am saying is that, like you M_G, I like to play for the fun side of the game, so running a pack of snarling wolves around the table is right up my alley!!

 

End of Line

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

I will say that if they had frag grenades, or some equivlant to them (cause wolves tossing grenades might be a bit much, even for the Wardian fluff being introduced in recent codex releases) then i might actually consider them.

 

however, without them, i just cant. i am happy to see that others do so with success.

 

WLK

[Guest Drekkan]

I really wonder how would fenrisian wolves do in an all terminator army.

 

Any thoughts about them being free kp, or great meat shield ?

 

Cheers.

[Marshal Wilhelm]

I often use fen wolves as a meat shield for my twc wolf lord. just keep them in cover and they are extremely hard to take out fast enough. ofc you can do that probably within 1 turn still but would have to focus all you fire on them - and lets be honest: who wants his whole 1500-2000pts army to fire on a 80-120 pts unit? And as for close combat they dont have grenades so keep that in mind!!!! but exept those they hit like your normal grey hunters in cc and even better with saga of the wolfkin due to I5! I realy like these little guys, just make sure you dont expose them to rapid fire or anything the like und keep the cover!

Agree whole-heartily with this - its where they fit into my force - give them to a thunderlord and enjoy the attention they attract and repel - they are easy to underestimate and very quick.

 

While i agree with Kieron about the others options for 80 points, I honestly believe that 15 of them (with the wolfkin saga) turn a 200 point thunderlord into 320 point wave of death. Are they going to win the battle single handed? No! But are they tough enough compared to their points cost? Certainly. Think of them as rapid orks - T4 with a 12" charge for 8 points... bargain! Against certain foes I5/T4 is genuinely enough - Even without the lord, I've watch 15 of them charge and eventually wipeout such units as 10 bloodletters, a mob of 20 orks with Nob and even a unit of TH/SS terminators. That was amusing. That many WS4 S4 attacks is not to be snivelled at. Remember you can seperate them from the thunderlord at the key moment and charge two units - this is also something opponents don't expect.

 

Nos.

 

The envelope method for the ThunderLord is a great method. It works well against Tau and Guard, where that long charge range can eat up the gap between your force and his.

As has been said, sending the Lord one way and the Fenwolves another can really wreck havoc on a few units, locking up their shooting, if nothing else.

 

If you have TWC as well, put the TWC behind the ThunderLord+Fenwolves. Getting cover saves on the important TWC is great, whilst the Fenwolves get to re-roll morale tests on the Lord's Ld of 10. Pretty sweet.

 

Saga of the Wolfkin:

Unless you have Canis in your list, it might not be a good deal to include the Saga unless you have umpteen Wolves running around. You might as well get good value for your points, yes?

If you do take it, it could be a waste to stick it onto the ThunderLord. He is better off being made killier than buffing Fenwolves, imo. So how to get the Saga? The Wolf Priest can take it. It would be grand if the Rune Priest could, but alas, it was not meant to be. If you take a Wolf Priest, he creates a need for a strong assault unit, such as Wolf Guard or Claws. Naturally, they need a Land Raider to get them into the action.

 

But there is a plus side to having to spend 600 pts on that combination - you have a natural TLoS blocker with which to have your ThunderLord+Fenwolves behind and/or alongside.

Make sure that ≥50% of the pack is out of sight, and the previously flimsy Fenwolves get a 4+ cover save. With canny use, you are getting some 'points back' from the Land Raider. You can even have the ThunderLord out in the open, and close to the front of the LR, as long the pack is in cover. Even if the foe immobilises the LR, you can still launch a 19-24" charge, often enough to bridge the gap between you and the foe.

 

Then you have a strong unit rushing out of the LR alongside the ThunderLord+Fenwolves, which should be overwhelming with good application.

 

+++

 

In summary, Fenwolves are not a "great choice". But if you use them in a way that covers their weaknesses and makes the most of their strengths, you can have something that adds actual usefulness beyond merely coolness, which is a great thing, imo.

 

They are not a Hammernator choice - this unit pwns, take it and profit. You need to use more cunning than that. It is a bit more like how Tau or even the rest of the Ultramarines list plays - you need to see beyond mathhammer and bang-for-buck, and use them in concert with other things to get a sum value that is greater than the individual parts.

[Rayray]

The actual idea that i had as far as the fenrisian wolves go was to buy two packs of fifteen, one pack of thunderwolves, and the lord to go with.

[FenrisWolf]

what do others think about adding in the cyberwolf to each pack? Worth the extra 8 points or not? Also, what about adding one or two as wargear for the Lord? Again, worth the points or no?

[Kami]

I would not buy the cyberwolf upgrade, as long as a character is attached to the squad.

I'm playing with this idea to use fenrisian wolves with a wolf priest with saga of the hunter (and another IC in the army who has saga of the wolfkin).

This way your fenrisian wolves change from the 6+ save to 3+ in cover, the same as a marine's armor for half the price. Then just use the unit like a foot slogging close combat pack with higher initiative and preferred enemy (because they don't like to get hit back in CC but don't care about being shot).

[haksaw]

I use mine to screen my TWC, and I also use them against mech lists....

 

If you assault with a fist or hammer, surround it with little wolves, and watch the opponent twitch a bit when the vehicle pops, and there is nowhere to go. Even if there is no fist, I will still charge a Land Raider and force him to tank shock. They are annoying as hell, and for 8 points per model, they definately add numbers to a force quickly. I enjoy using them