cac1389 Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 got into a discussion last ninght about the crucible of malediction and grey knight vehicles, so what are your thoughts on this because some of the wording in our book is just messed up. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228181-running-the-crucible/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chairman_woo Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 got into a discussion last ninght about the crucible of malediction and grey knight vehicles, so what are your thoughts on this because some of the wording in our book is just messed up. the rules arnt clear either way, RAI it seems unlikely the code designers intended for the crucible to remove entire vehicles on a nasty test like that. The best hard counter argument (RAW) I can think of is that psy pilots only have a leadership for the purpose of psychic and hood tests, and not a general purpose leadership to test against normally. The crucible makes you take a ld test on 3d6, which as you have no actual leadership value means a null test. It's not conclusive but its the best I can think of right now. Removing a entire vehicle on a 3d6 test seems rather unreasonable to me (and creates a whole issue with what to do with any embarked contents) afterwards... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228181-running-the-crucible/#findComment-2734163 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelis Mortis Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 Wouldn't affect GK vehicles as it clearly states under Psi Pilot that it is only for Psychic tests and Psychic Hoods. However, my question would be how does it affect squads of GK? Do you roll one Ld test and if they fail remove the squad or do you roll a Ld test for every GK? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228181-running-the-crucible/#findComment-2734253 Share on other sites More sharing options...
spu00sed Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 Wouldn't affect GK vehicles as it clearly states under Psi Pilot that it is only for Psychic tests and Psychic Hoods. However, my question would be how does it affect squads of GK? Do you roll one Ld test and if they fail remove the squad or do you roll a Ld test for every GK? I would say it would effect one model (the justicar if alive) due to the brotherhood of pysker special rule. Still nasty, on average each squad will lose a model and all characters will die, since the average of 3D6 is 10.5. Not that my opponents need the crucible. Last game I played I failed 2/3 of my tests and perilled twice (both times on double 6). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228181-running-the-crucible/#findComment-2734299 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Valerius Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 Wouldn't affect GK vehicles as it clearly states under Psi Pilot that it is only for Psychic tests and Psychic Hoods. However, my question would be how does it affect squads of GK? Do you roll one Ld test and if they fail remove the squad or do you roll a Ld test for every GK? This has been a matter of some debate. For my part, I believe that you roll one Ld test, and if you fail it you remove the justicar (or random model if he is dead), per the Brotherhood of Psykers rule. Some people feel that the crucible doesn't "target" anything, so it doesn't meet the conditions of BoP and you roll one test, then remove the whole squad. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228181-running-the-crucible/#findComment-2734333 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chairman_woo Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 Some people feel that the crucible doesn't "target" anything, so it doesn't meet the conditions of BoP and you roll one test, then remove the whole squad. I hope those people enjoy playing against an empty table then! :huh: Seriously tho they can sod off if they think 20odd pts of wargear is going to wipe out entire squads! It's already pretty broken even by the most conservative interpretation! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228181-running-the-crucible/#findComment-2734393 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelis Mortis Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 Wouldn't affect GK vehicles as it clearly states under Psi Pilot that it is only for Psychic tests and Psychic Hoods. However, my question would be how does it affect squads of GK? Do you roll one Ld test and if they fail remove the squad or do you roll a Ld test for every GK? This has been a matter of some debate. For my part, I believe that you roll one Ld test, and if you fail it you remove the justicar (or random model if he is dead), per the Brotherhood of Psykers rule. Some people feel that the crucible doesn't "target" anything, so it doesn't meet the conditions of BoP and you roll one test, then remove the whole squad. Don't know why there would be any debate. As I stated, its very, very clear. Let me read it to you. "Psychic Pilot: A vehicle with this special rule is treated as being a psyker (master level 1) and Leadership 10 for the purposes of Psychic Tests and Psychic hoods. If the vehicle suffers the perils of the warp, treat it as a glancing hit." So, the only time it counts as a Psyker is when it activates fortitude, at which point it can be contested by a Psychic hood and be nullified. At any other point in the game, it is not considered a psyker. There is nothing to debate. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228181-running-the-crucible/#findComment-2734401 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Valerius Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 Wouldn't affect GK vehicles as it clearly states under Psi Pilot that it is only for Psychic tests and Psychic Hoods. However, my question would be how does it affect squads of GK? Do you roll one Ld test and if they fail remove the squad or do you roll a Ld test for every GK? This has been a matter of some debate. For my part, I believe that you roll one Ld test, and if you fail it you remove the justicar (or random model if he is dead), per the Brotherhood of Psykers rule. Some people feel that the crucible doesn't "target" anything, so it doesn't meet the conditions of BoP and you roll one test, then remove the whole squad. Don't know why there would be any debate. As I stated, its very, very clear. Let me read it to you. "Psychic Pilot: A vehicle with this special rule is treated as being a psyker (master level 1) and Leadership 10 for the purposes of Psychic Tests and Psychic hoods. If the vehicle suffers the perils of the warp, treat it as a glancing hit." So, the only time it counts as a Psyker is when it activates fortitude, at which point it can be contested by a Psychic hood and be nullified. At any other point in the game, it is not considered a psyker. There is nothing to debate. I wasn't talking about vehicles, I was talking about your question in regards to squads. Sorry for any confusion. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228181-running-the-crucible/#findComment-2734455 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelis Mortis Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 Wouldn't affect GK vehicles as it clearly states under Psi Pilot that it is only for Psychic tests and Psychic Hoods. However, my question would be how does it affect squads of GK? Do you roll one Ld test and if they fail remove the squad or do you roll a Ld test for every GK? This has been a matter of some debate. For my part, I believe that you roll one Ld test, and if you fail it you remove the justicar (or random model if he is dead), per the Brotherhood of Psykers rule. Some people feel that the crucible doesn't "target" anything, so it doesn't meet the conditions of BoP and you roll one test, then remove the whole squad. Don't know why there would be any debate. As I stated, its very, very clear. Let me read it to you. "Psychic Pilot: A vehicle with this special rule is treated as being a psyker (master level 1) and Leadership 10 for the purposes of Psychic Tests and Psychic hoods. If the vehicle suffers the perils of the warp, treat it as a glancing hit." So, the only time it counts as a Psyker is when it activates fortitude, at which point it can be contested by a Psychic hood and be nullified. At any other point in the game, it is not considered a psyker. There is nothing to debate. I wasn't talking about vehicles, I was talking about your question in regards to squads. Sorry for any confusion. Ah I see, yeah I was confused. My apologies I understand what you meant now. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228181-running-the-crucible/#findComment-2734606 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted April 24, 2011 Share Posted April 24, 2011 I'm pretty sure Crucible just does the following; - Characters: Pass a Leadership test (seeing as they're Ld10, this is pretty chancy for your opponent), or die. - Squads: Justicar/Flame Knight must test on Ld9, if he fails he dies no one else. If Justicar/Flame Knight is already dead, pick a squad member to take the hit - Vehicles: Does nothing, because they're not psykers BTW, the 3D6 isn't for the Leadership test, it's the range the Cruicible affects. So if you stay away from the Haemo/Urien carrying it (at worst it's 18" aura), and shoot them to death (psycannons ignore FNP and cause ID on them), you can avoid it's effects. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228181-running-the-crucible/#findComment-2734946 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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