Hammerhand

[haksaw]

If I have an IC in a unit and both the unit, and the IC, use Hammerhand.....

Do they stack? Intuition tells me no

[BrotherWasted]

Hammerhand stacks with itself, as well as Might of Titan. If you attach an IC to a unit, there are two separate Psykers in the unit, therefore they may both cast Hammerhand.

 

Something I personally love doing is Mordrak + 5 Ghost Knights + Librarian w/ Halberd (Libby is IC, Mordrak is not, therefore he can join their unit); Libby casts both Hammerhand and Might of Titan, then Mordrak casts Hammerhand (he's not an IC, so he and the Ghost Knights are a single psyker). Mordrak's Daemonhammer just becomes S10 w/ rerolls to hit, but the rest of the squad is going at Intiative 6 with S7 halberds.

 

If in doubt, swap the Librarian's Hammerhand for The Quickening; everybody is then initiative 10 + Strength 6 (except for Mordrak).

[Iron Father Rik]

Something I personally love doing is Mordrak + 5 Ghost Knights + Librarian w/ Halberd (Libby is IC, Mordrak is not, therefore he can join their unit); Libby casts both Hammerhand and Might of Titan, then Mordrak casts Hammerhand (he's not an IC, so he and the Ghost Knights are a single psyker). Mordrak's Daemonhammer becomes S14 w/ rerolls to hit, the rest of the squad is going at Intiative 6 with S7 halberds.

 

Uhm... quick question: How? Mordrak is S4, his Daemonhammer doubles that to 8, and Hammerhand and Might of Titan both add 1 to that. With three powers adding +1 to Strength cast, this brings him up to S11, not S14. (Not that S11 isn't scary enough!)

[BrotherWasted]

Hammerhand is applied before doubling the strength, as per the description under the Grey Knight Psychic Powers. This is how the GKs get S10 Thunderhammers in a basic squad.

 

I will correct myself though - Might of Titan does not have this effect; therefore, Mordrak becomes S13 with his Daemonhammer. 2 x (S4 +2 from multiple Hammerhands) +1 = S13.

[Tankred]

Hammerhand and Might of Titan are added before being doubled by the hammer.

[JamesI]

The max for strength is 10. No matter how many Hammerhands apply its still a 10.

 

Remember why dreads with Dread close combat weapons is only S 10, despite being S 6 and doubling.

[BrotherWasted]

Eh, in practice, yeah it's limited at S10 - either way, the important thing about this is what you're doing for the terminators, not for Mordrak. Though, 5 S10 Hammer attacks on the charge is still rotten alongside 18 S7 Halberd attacks at WS5 B)

[JamesI]

DCCWs only go to maximum 10 because the weapon description says so, although, so does the description for Power Fists (and therefore Thunderhammers, therefore Nemesis Doomhammers) - either way, the important thing about this is what you're doing for the terminators, not for Mordrak. 5 S10 Hammer attacks on the charge is still rotten, no matter which way you cut it.

The main rulebook says stats (exception given for Attacks in a FAQ and for vehicle armor) do not go above 10.

 

So no demonhammers at S11+.

[Drudge Dreadnought]

Hammerhand and Might of Titan stack. But I don't think multiple uses of hammerhand stack. There's nothing to imply that they do.

[BrotherWasted]

Nor is there anything to imply that they don't.

 

If there are two psykers in a unit (i.e. an IC and a squad with Brotherhood of Psykers), they may cast their powers as they choose - if both pass a Psychic Test for Hammerhand, then RAW for Hammerhand simply says that "all models in the unit (including independant characters) gain +1 Strength".

 

I guess it could be implied that since Might of Titan has an explicit clause about stacking, and Hammerhand does not, then multiple Hammerhands won't stack, but I'm not sure if that is enough to prohibit multiple casts.

[JamesI]

I think the rules are not clear on the stacking of Hammerhand. Which is unfortunate, wouldn't have taken much to make it clear one way or the other.

 

Hopefully a FAQ answers the question quickly.

[Chairman_woo]

Nor is there anything to imply that they don't.

 

If there are two psykers in a unit (i.e. an IC and a squad with Brotherhood of Psykers), they may cast their powers as they choose - if both pass a Psychic Test for Hammerhand, then RAW for Hammerhand simply says that "all models in the unit (including independant characters) gain +1 Strength".

 

I guess it could be implied that since Might of Titan has an explicit clause about stacking, and Hammerhand does not, then multiple Hammerhands won't stack, but I'm not sure if that is enough to prohibit multiple casts.

 

 

If the rules don't say you can do something then general speaking you cant, 40k is a permissive rule system as gets pointed out on here ad nausiem. Hammer hand if cast gives you +1 St. Therefore strictly speaking that's what it does, add +1 St when active, the number of instances of a hammerhand cast is theoretically irrelevant as you still get +1 St for it being active as that's what HH does, I.e. add +1 St. not +1 per hammerhand, just +1.

 

For instance you don't get to roll +2 to coversaves if you cast shrouding twice. Still needs a FAQ and that example is less than perfect, but its certainly an argument you will come across from some opponents.

[Angelis Mortis]

Hammerhand and Might of Titan stack. But I don't think multiple uses of hammerhand stack. There's nothing to imply that they do.

 

Agreed.

 

Nor is there anything to imply that they don't.

 

If there are two psykers in a unit (i.e. an IC and a squad with Brotherhood of Psykers), they may cast their powers as they choose - if both pass a Psychic Test for Hammerhand, then RAW for Hammerhand simply says that "all models in the unit (including independant characters) gain +1 Strength".

 

I guess it could be implied that since Might of Titan has an explicit clause about stacking, and Hammerhand does not, then multiple Hammerhands won't stack, but I'm not sure if that is enough to prohibit multiple casts.

 

There is also nothing that says Hammerhand doesn't shoot S10 AP1 assault 20 lightning bolts either. So does it?

[number6]

Multiple uses of Hammerhand don't stack. Just like multiple sources of Furious charge -- e.g., two Tervigons near the same termagant squad, 3 BA Sanguinary priests near an assaulting DC unit -- don't stack.

 

Unless the rules specifically say bonuses stack, they don't. Such is 40K.

 

For further reference, see every 5th edition codex where people wondered whether bonuses stack. The ensuing FAQ specifically prevents it. E.g., two Hive Commander Hive Tyrants don't stack their bonuses (or even their outflanking Troops options!). Multiple Officers of the Fleet and Astropaths have no effect in IG Company Command Squads.

[Fred Johnson the 3rd jr]

Hammerhand and Might of Titan stack. But I don't think multiple uses of hammerhand stack. There's nothing to imply that they do.

 

This is the sensible way to go. And how it is going to be FAQed. I'd be shocked if goes the other way.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Typically the rules specifically state when something stacks. As noted furious charge does not stack otherwise you could run a squad of BA Sanguniary Guard with 6 Sanguinary Priests and they would be S10/I10 on the charge.

 

G :tu:

[haksaw]

I figured as much....

 

I know you can only use one psychic shooting attack, unless monstrous, but what about multiple Summonings etc.....I cant seem to state where you cant use the same power more than once, but recall reading it.

[haksaw]

Also does Quickening make a thunder hammer I10 or does it still default to I1

[Cpt. Blood Donator]

Also does Quickening make a thunder hammer I10 or does it still default to I1

 

Strikes last (I1), the "bonus" from the hammer is applied after the power.

[Drudge Dreadnought]

I figured as much....

 

I know you can only use one psychic shooting attack, unless monstrous, but what about multiple Summonings etc.....I cant seem to state where you cant use the same power more than once, but recall reading it.

 

You can use the same power more than once. You can just only use one psychic shooting attack.

 

You can cast hammerhand as many times as you want, it just never gives more than +1 strength.

[haksaw]

Thanks for your help guys......this codex is very ambiguous

 

One more thing, for now.....Quicksilver says I10 for the rest of the turn......does that mean Game Turn, or player turn

[Drudge Dreadnought]

Thanks for your help guys......this codex is very ambiguous

 

One more thing, for now.....Quicksilver says I10 for the rest of the turn......does that mean Game Turn, or player turn

 

Turn always refers to player turn unless it specifies game turn.

[haksaw]

What is the general view of the Falchions.....

 

I hate to rules lawyer and I think I know how they were meant...

 

Is it +1 Attack then another for two weapons or just +1 attack.... I can see both sides, but I just want to know how everyone is playing them for now

[Gentlemanloser]

Ask your opponent, or dice off.

 

Personally, when I asked my group how they wanted to play it, they looked at the dex and went for the +2A.

 

I've still never used any Falchions. :D

[Cpt. Blood Donator]

What is the general view of the Falchions.....

 

I hate to rules lawyer and I think I know how they were meant...

 

Is it +1 Attack then another for two weapons or just +1 attack.... I can see both sides, but I just want to know how everyone is playing them for now

 

There are two views:

 

1: I want to win; 2A

2: This makes sense: 1A

 

The problem with falchions giving 2A is that they're to cheap for that. I don't think it was GW's intention to give you 4 attack base 45 point terminators. Or 60 point dito paladins.

I guess that the FAQ will have to clear up what M.W meant with this.

 

Categoty 2 also plays into the fact that they are special c.c weapons, and thus only should give +1 attack if you have two of them, like lightning claws.