Mech Wolves Advice

[Vigrid]

Wolf Brothers I come to in need of some advice. I run a mech list with rhinos and LRC but as of late in almost every game my rhino's are taken out before they get close enough. This inevitably leads to my grey hunter packs getting whittled down by continous fire. Where I play is mostly PA armies of one sort with many guys choosing to be extra shooty. It seems they're more interested in not losing than winning because many times they wont advance at all just force me to close the range. Any advice you guys could give me would be appreciated.

[mitchell93]

With my mech wolves I have a alpha striking sky claw unit (wolf priest, 6 men [would be more if i didn't detest proxy], powerweapon and motw); it hits hard and gives my opponent something to think about, it usually dies though but the havock is useful for getting my rhinos across relatively unharmed.

[MaveriK]

How much terrain do you use? do you use smoke grenades? extra armor? drop pods?

 

Never allow your opponent to dictate your actions! and don't get baited by going to him, especially if he's just gonna sit there and blow your mech away. Force your opponent to move towards you! this can be accomplished by scaring him with wolf scouts. Use your wolf scouts to blow up your opponents tanks or anything that might destroy your rhinos or land raiders. If it means keeping your mech back until that's accomplished then it's a small price to pay. Finding your own fire base helps set up your grey hunters and long fangs. Let him come at you mid for a counter-attack.

[Grey Mage]

Do you play nothing but annhilation? If so, your in for some trouble. If not things are a bit brighter.

 

A few things you can do regardless- take a Rune Priest with stormcaller. A 5+ cover save vs incoming shooting might not sound like much, but its always been useful to me.

 

Take some landspeeder typhoons and hunt their anti-tank guns. Take wolf scouts, and infiltrate them close or OBEL them with a melta and do the same.

 

Fenrisian Wolves- not the big ol thunderwolves, but just your bog standard fenrisian wolves, tie up devastator squads with ease. a possible 24" charge means theyll bipass that problematic rapid-fire range. You can pick up the fantasy wolves for cheap if you want to try them out.

 

In a similar vein, if vehicle weapons are your problem, particularly vindicators and predators, or landraiders even, take an Iron Priest on a TWM and 4 cyberwolves. It runs about the same as a predator, but with S10 attacks on the charge and stunned on any glance or better Ive seen him eat mechanized companies for breakfast.

 

Razorbacks- it might pay for you to bring a little extra anti-tank firepower if your long fangs arent cutting it. Give them a razorback, it helps.

 

And of course- USE COVER. Seriously, a board is supposed to be 1/4-1/3 terrain. Hug terrain, set up your own firing lines and hit them at range. Do you take plasmaguns? If not, it might pay to start doing so and give yourself a credible ranged threat. Wolves on foot cover about 10" a turn, hopping from cover to cover as you move up is a viable tactic on most boards if you absolutely must walk towards heavy fire.

 

Lastly- give them higher priority targets. Is the Landraider your only heavy armor? Take Dreads, take vindicators, make him make choices.

 

Of course, if you live in an area like I do where popping 4 AV 11 vehicles in a turn has turned into a simple game for alot of players... it might be time to try out drop pods. Its an investment though, so I dont suggest it without running a dozen test games and seeing how you like it first.

[Nrthstar]

My rhino wasn't cutting it either, so I've switched my mech list to:

 

2 Razorbacks with gh/pack leader armed with las/plas

1 Land Raider Crusader with gh/pack leaders/hq

2 Dreadnoughts (sometimes one is my bjorn) armed usually with plasma cannons

1 Long Fang Squad with 3x Missile, 2x Plasma

 

If it goes up to 1750 I use my drop pod to bring in some serious rapid fire when i need it.

 

Tbh though I haven't played my list yet, Wednesday will be my first day if I can't talk some people into an Easter game.

[Wulfebane]

A few things you can do regardless- take a Rune Priest with stormcaller. A 5+ cover save vs incoming shooting might not sound like much, but its always been useful to me.

 

Lastly- give them higher priority targets. Is the Landraider your only heavy armor? Take Dreads, take vindicators, make him make choices.

 

it might be time to try out drop pods.

 

Make sure the RP follows along in a transport and that all the transports keep in range.

 

If rhinos aren't getting your GH packs to the mid fast enough before they're taken out by anti-tank fire, then use the rhinos as decoys (though I'd upgrade to razors for gun turrets) and deep strike your GH/TDA WG packs closer to the front line, causing the enemy to scatter.

 

Also, TWC and Fen. wolves are an automatic priority shift b/c if they make it to the enemy gun line, they shred everything, so people are keen to take them out first. Being as cheap as they are, they're as good as coined "cannon fodder". However, since you're a mech army, you can potentially get the same effect from Swiftclaws. Same situation applies for deep striking land speeders instead of scouts.

[Stormshrug]

Against certain shooty lists, I often keep my Rhinos behind cover as much as possible, advancing conservatively and prioritizing not getting shot over making lots of forward progress, until my outflanking elements (Scouts) arrive to pin the enemy down. Once the Scouts have tied up the troublesome shooty units, the rest of the army surges forward to finish things.

 

-Stormshrug

[Vigrid]

actually i dont play much annihilation its been capture and control or seize ground as of late. I use cover quite a bit and make sure to pop my smoke launchers to get that save. My tactics as of late have been pushing my LRC with a rhino up one side and then sending the other two the other direction. I also run a predator in my list which does soak up some of the incoming fire but not a lot. I might look into the landspeeders what builds do you recommend with those? they would probayl replace the pred in my list so id need to kit them out as anti tank.

[Marshal Wilhelm]

Wolf Brothers I come to in need of some advice. I run a mech list with rhinos and LRC but as of late in almost every game my rhino's are taken out before they get close enough. This inevitably leads to my grey hunter packs getting whittled down by continous fire. Where I play is mostly PA armies of one sort with many guys choosing to be extra shooty. It seems they're more interested in not losing than winning because many times they wont advance at all just force me to close the range. Any advice you guys could give me would be appreciated.

 

What points do you play at?

What is your army list?

Who do you play?

How big is the table you play on?

[Vigrid]

My army list has been

 

HQ

Wolf Lord in TDA with Frost Axe, SS, WTT and Saga of the Bear

 

Rune Priest in Runic armor with Wolftooth Necklace, Jaws and LL

 

Elites

2 Wolf Guard in PA with wolf claw and combi melta

2 Wolf Guard in TDA with PF and SB

2 Wolf Guard in TDA with 2x Wolf Claws

1 Wolf Guard in TDA with CF and SB

1 Wolf Guard in TDA with Frost Axe and SS

Land Raider Crusader w/ Multi Melta

 

Troops

3 x Grey Hunter Packs

9 Grey hunters with Melta Gun and PW in a Rhino

 

Heavy Support

Long Fang pack with 2 ML and 2 PC

 

Predator with Twin Linked Lascannons, Lascannon Sponsons and Storm Bolter

 

 

I play mostly at 1850 to 2000 point games on a normal sized table. Most of the opponents in my area are Space Marines of one kind or another with a few Tau or Chaos SM as well.

[Wulfebane]

I might look into the landspeeders what builds do you recommend with those? they would probayl replace the pred in my list so id need to kit them out as anti tank.

 

Popular Land Speeder tactics.

[Marshal Wilhelm]

My army list has been

 

HQ

Wolf Lord in TDA with Frost Axe, SS, WTT and Saga of the Bear

 

Rune Priest in Runic armor with Wolftooth Necklace, Jaws and LL

 

Elites

2 Wolf Guard in PA with wolf claw and combi melta

2 Wolf Guard in TDA with PF and SB

2 Wolf Guard in TDA with 2x Wolf Claws

1 Wolf Guard in TDA with CF and SB

1 Wolf Guard in TDA with Frost Axe and SS

Land Raider Crusader w/ Multi Melta

 

Troops

3 x Grey Hunter Packs

9 Grey hunters with Melta Gun and PW in a Rhino

 

Heavy Support

Long Fang pack with 2 ML and 2 PC

 

Predator with Twin Linked Lascannons, Lascannon Sponsons and Storm Bolter

 

 

I play mostly at 1850 to 2000 point games on a normal sized table. Most of the opponents in my area are Space Marines of one kind or another with a few Tau or Chaos SM as well.

 

I think you don't have enough long range anti tank, LRAT, shooting. I have 2 Autolas preds, two Typhoons, 1 Lasback and 1 Las squad at 1500 pts. I know my list is probably on the shooty end of the spectrum, but I am packing more LRAT in a smaller list....

 

LRAT allows you to suppress the enemies shooting. You can still get good mileage from stun/shaking his firepower until you get to where you want to be, even if you are not actually destroying his AV.

 

Unfortunately, the 3las Pred you are running is not very-good bang for buck. The Autolas gives better value. ML Fangs are even better value than the Autolas.

 

What do you think about that?

[Hear da Lamentation]

I would agree with Marshal. The reason they are sitting back and trying to make you come to them is because they know you don't have enough long range fire power to worry them and nothing "fast" which can quickly threaten them (like TWC, Swiftclaws or scouts). I'm not a fan of the predator, for the points it is too expensive. You could afford quite a few LF for the same price - and they can't be popped with 1 lucky shot.

 

Just some thoughts .....

[Simo429]

Like the Marshal said no where near enough long range fire power.

[Vigrid]

Thanks for the advice guys I think I'm going to tweak my list to include suggestions from the Marshall and Wulfebane. I'm going to drop my grey hunter packs down to 8 men, switch the pred to an auto/las, my LF's to all ML, and add two MM/HF land speeders. I think this will let me keep the heavy firepower of the lascannons and let me threaten my opponents heavy armor early on with the speeders.

[Simo429]

Just get rid of the pred, another squad of long fangs isnt much more can hit twice as many targets a turn, can dish out more fire power and can take more fire power.

 

You have to get out of the mind set that your fire power is there to destroy enemy vehicles, really its there to suppress your opponent, stop him shooting back at you so you can control the midfield, the ubiquitous missile launcher is the best tool for that job (bar the psyfleman dread perhaps)

[Marshal Wilhelm]

Just get rid of the pred, another squad of long fangs isnt much more can hit twice as many targets a turn, can dish out more fire power and can take more fire power.

 

You have to get out of the mind set that your fire power is there to destroy enemy vehicles, really its there to suppress your opponent, stop him shooting back at you so you can control the midfield, the ubiquitous missile launcher is the best tool for that job (bar the psyfleman dread perhaps)

 

If Vigrid has the models and/or dollars, then I'd swap out the Pred for ML Fangs.

 

But if not, Vigrid, then an Autolas Pred works well enough. Just because they are less than ML Fangs doesn't mean they are not good. But to make them work best, the more AV you can pack into your list, the better. It is called target saturation when you have too much of something for your foe to deal with.

 

Land Speeders with MM HF are perhaps my favourite Marine unit. I run two at 1500 pts, in my Templars. And two Typhoons....

 

You can DS with them, to kamikaze an IG gunline.

You can reserve them, then flat-out them onto the table. This is my least preferred option

You can deploy them, but out of TLoS or reach of the foes guns. They will be able to hide behind the LRC pretty well.

 

You can then use them in concert with your Wolf Guard or Greys.

The Speeder MM a transport, whilst the infantry hops out and assaults the passengers.

The Greys Mg a transport, whilst the Speeder HFs them.

The Wolf transport tank shocks! a unit, compressing them into a tight huddle. The Speeder then HFs them to great effect.

 

Even with the MM blown off, you can bully sv4+ units, even if cover, and really cook them.

They can chase fleeing but >50% units off the table

 

They can contest Objectives with their 24" move.

[Wulfebane]

@simo429: keep in mind that he prefers a mech army, so removing a tank in favor of foot squads (albeit a convincing strat) may not be where he wants his army to go

[Simo429]

@simo429: keep in mind that he prefers a mech army, so removing a tank in favor of foot squads (albeit a convincing strat) may not be where he wants his army to go

If you want an all mech army there are many better options than a pillbox, pair of vindi's or pure las plas.

[frostmane]

I play against guard often, and I had a similar problem.

 

Punish his tactic. Your opponent knows you're doing a mech list, in fact, he is counting on it. Drop pod list full of plasma or melta will force him to account for a different kind of play style the next game. After that, do Logan wing. Or do a heavy longfang list. This will force your opponent to take into account your willingness to run an unpredictable list so he will have to make an "All comers" list. After tossing out some wild lists, you can get to something a bit more standard, but always make sure that it isn't a pure rhinos driving up. Scouts for behind enemy lines chaos, longfangs for shouting down priority targets, and the like.

 

I did a list with some empty drop pods that worked well. The full ones came down first turn, the empty ones came down throughout the game to contest objectives, or to close fire lanes. My foot sloggers ran from cover to cover. Was cheap, but it was effective.

 

Frostmane

[Kami]

Same here, had some problems against mech imperial guard and got tired of having to walk closer to his tanks.

Instead I went footslogging. With Logan, three squads of missile launcher long fangs and the rest filled up with power armored wolfguard and maximum cyclone missiles in TDA, there isn't much that can beat you in long range firepower.

Especially against marines, I think it might work wonders. I've yet to try it against guard, but it worked well against 'nids and dark eldar despite going second.

But if you like mech more, I would go with marshal wilhelm's advice and take the speeders.

[Wolf Guard Nostromo]

When I'm running rhinos, I tend to use a simple rule of thumb which has been successful... Give your opponent at least 2, preferably 3 or 4 alternatives to shoot/worry about other than whats inside the rhinos. As others have rightly mentioned, in a mech list this largely means vindicators, predators, land speeders and swiftclaws. All these will pose a threat to a significant part of most armies but do not cost vast amounts of points.

 

I'm currently running 3 or 4 rhinos alongside 2 vindicators, 2 land speeders and a dreadnought with great success at 1500. The main trouble for my opponent is to know what to shoot first... all of them are a threat and all look more threatening than a Grey Hunter pack in a rhino.

 

As already mentioned, scouts are also a useful choice. Even if they simply make your opponent deploy differently this has had a really positive effect... Taking the iniative and making them react to you rather than vice-versa is key to 40k success.

[Grimtooth]

Had a nice post up, but computer crashed so you get what I remember typing as my opening which is actually a pretty good basic rule to follow:

 

Successful mechanized strategy begin at deployment.

 

In all reality you have to deploy as the mission sees fit and from there you make your decisions on how you are going to advance to your enemy, if at all.

[Valerian]

Shameless self-promotion here, but maybe reading the Guide to Army building by clicking on the link in my signature block will help. I've tried to capture in that document a lot of what the others have been trying to emphasize in this thread.

 

Best of luck,

 

Valerian

[d@n]

1. Drop pods are an option as you can stick a scoring termy in the pack so as long as he survives you dont loose a kill point and he can take objectives. or use a Logan wing for a bit more durability.

 

2. have a big hammer unit to soak up fire like thunder wolves or bjorn, bjorn is good for this, as he has an inv save A13 and is venerable.keep him on or near your home objective unit and you can claim 2 objectives when he does die.

 

3. use a vindicator wall, they will take all the fire, on there front armour 13 as your rhinos will block the rear armour. use your rune priest to give them a cover save and have iron priest's on bikes fixing them and any transports. SW players love of long fangs means you dont generally see this build. you have the iron priests with thunder hammers to counter charge as well incase your vehicles get assaulted.