Why take Tactical Squads?

[Chaplain Admetus]

I always try to field a tactical squad in a rhino in my lists. This is at least partly due to the fact that I prefer playing a balanced force rather than all out assault - my 1,500 point list has 2 assault squads and 1 tactical squad as my troops choice, and the tacticals are normally tasked with taking a home objective supported by devastators. Failing this, in a rhino they can move, disembark and rapid-fire, which has been handy on more than one occasion for softening up a squad that I'd be hesitant about throwing my assault squad into at full strength (you may only bring down one or two extra models, but sometimes thats enough to tip the balance). Yes, I know most tourney players eschew the humble tactical squad - I'm not 100% certain, but I'm pretty sure that from the top 4 BA armies at last week's GT my single tactical squad was the only representative - but that doesn't make them a bad choice. I can honestly say that they more than pulled their weight in 4 out of the 5 games, and the only one they didn't wasn't their fault - their rhino exploded causing six wounds, and I failed all six saves and then the following pinning check. But over the other games they held an objective against other BA, softened up targets for my assault marines, combat squadded to hold an objective and help me go after my opponents, and bubblewrapped a webway portal to prevent certain of my opponents units from coming in through it.

Anyway, ultimate answer to the question: Why take Tactical Squads? Pure and simple - personal preference. If you like the way they play and find that they fit in your army, use them. If you don't, then pick something else to fill the troops slots with. As far as I'm concerned, there is no right or wrong choice over whether or not Assault Marines or Tactical Marines are better, it depends on the player and their list. As I see it, we're fortunate as Blood Angels players to have both options available to us as troops, so why not use both?

[Gv0zD]

I thought everybody agreed that Banshees were junk by now? People stuck in 3rd ed. thinking seem to think that a squad of banshees is actually a threat, whereas most people know their mathammer. Banshees are a joke, especially considering they need a Wave Serpent. A group of death cult assasins however, is something worthy of taking precautions against.

Or genestealers. But banshees are crap. Even scorpions are better.

Ok, you got me here. Whatever, my poinyt was there are armies that can deal with RAS effectively. Surely RAS can strike lot's of attacks, but they have to suffer return attacks. With shooty Tacts you can also deal with hordes, but without fear of retaliation.

 

-EDIT-

 

Anyway, ultimate answer to the question: Why take Tactical Squads? Pure and simple - personal preference. If you like the way they play and find that they fit in your army, use them. If you don't, then pick something else to fill the troops slots with. As far as I'm concerned, there is no right or wrong choice over whether or not Assault Marines or Tactical Marines are better, it depends on the player and their list. As I see it, we're fortunate as Blood Angels players to have both options available to us as troops, so why not use both?

^^ This. Couldn't say it better.

[Cpt. Blood Donator]

I thought everybody agreed that Banshees were junk by now? People stuck in 3rd ed. thinking seem to think that a squad of banshees is actually a threat, whereas most people know their mathammer. Banshees are a joke, especially considering they need a Wave Serpent. A group of death cult assasins however, is something worthy of taking precautions against.

Or genestealers. But banshees are crap. Even scorpions are better.

Ok, you got me here. Whatever, my poinyt was there are armies that can deal with RAS effectively. Surely RAS can strike lot's of attacks, but they have to suffer return attacks. With shooty Tacts you can also deal with hordes, but without fear of retaliation.

 

Not my intention to get you =) I was quite scared of banshees for like.. 10 years xD Then I did the mathammer. Now I know scorpions are worse, assuming the entire army doesn't have FNP of course, but that wasn't a real issue before. And indeed there are plenty of ways to deal with RAS, it's just that a RAS might always have F.C at least, from either rolls or priests, making them far more formidable than one would usually expect. The answer to most hordes are flamers I suppose, but we B.A players are usually too stupid to take those, assured of our meltaguns being Jesus.

[spec.ops]

There is no logical argument to take BA TAC's.

 

You take RAS and/ or Scouts.

[SamaNagol]

You can never ever have a reasonable debate when you are simply matching unit vs unit in a vacuum.

 

However Ork Bikers are so far down the list of threats in that army that picking Tactical squads to pip maybe 2 wounds off them a turn if you are incredibly lucky is laughable

[1Drop]

I don't think that tac marines really suite the synergy and playstyle of what BA is built for and our strongest points, I wouldn't rule them out entirely but I'd rather use scouts backed up by devs for similar roles but at the end of the day I will be mostly using RAS in las/plas RB's for objectives and using my scouts to send enemies where I want them to be!

[rbuckey]

Thanks for the input, one and all!

 

Lots of good info!

[Lesek]

So, is there any reason, other than holding objectives, to take tactical squads in a Blood Angels army?

 

Because they're cool? :)

[toaae]

I always take at least one tactical squad. It's either 2x 10-man squads with Plasmagun and Lascannon in a TL-Heavy Flamer Razorback, and/or 10 man squad with Meltagun, Multi-Melta, and Combi-melta/Powerfist in a Rhino.

 

The first two pull double duty with long range anti-tank support and close-range support, and the other set-up provides a powerful "Take and Hold" unit. Nothing says "stay the hell away from this objective, vehicles" like a melta squad.

 

 

Now, the first thing I take in any list is 2x assault squads and a hammer CC unit of some sort, but I consider the support Tacticals add to be too great to go without.

[Zeller]

1. Suggest using the search function as there are a few of these topics lying in the dust.

 

2. TLDR: They're cool, we're a codex chapter, already own a lot of them. Also, longer range unit better equipped for generic combat.

[teemoki]

I was normally on the go for tactical squads but I'm not so sure anymore. I haven't been playing long but like others here I have been the one to always auto include one in my army for home objective camping like most here have ...even the original post says "other than home base objective camping. "

 

But thinking outside of that realm for a 5 man RAS + melts and tl Las or Las plas Razorback we are saving like 50 or 55 pts aren't we? That's enough to almost equip both my baals with sponsons or buy me an extra mm attack bike ...

 

What are your guys thoughts on this point of view?

[Papa Hoth]

I used to run tacs often in my drop pod lists in 3rd and 4th ed. I've also come up with a list for 5th with tacs in pods. I plan on using them in one of 3 ways depending on the army I'm facing, first as simple objective grabbers, since they count as scorring and provide some longer range fire support. 2nd use for them is bait. Odds are my pods will show about the same time as my deepstrikers. So the pods with tacs hit infront of the enemy gun line, while the deepstrikers come in behind or on a flank. The opponent then has to split fire to deal with them. The third way I plan to use them is as bubble wrap poppers. Drop them about 24 inches away from the enemy line that I plan to flank an have them blow out a squad or atleast break it. That should hopefully give a fire break for my assualt units to consolidate into where they aren't taking rapid fire from my opponent.

 

Here's a quick break down of the list.

 

HQ

Termi Reclusiarch

 

Elites

Furioso Libby in a pod

5 man Hammernator squad

Sang Priest with jump pack and power weapon

 

Troops

(2) 10 man tac squad with flamer and missle launcher and pod

(2) 10 man assualt squads with 2 melta gun, sarge with power fist

 

Fast

2X(1) land speeder w/multi-melta

 

Heavy

Dreadnought w/ assualt cannon, heavy flamer and pod

 

Comes in at around 1850, and I'm looking forward to the in your face fire from it.

[knife&fork]

Would a tactical squad be better than an assault squad as regular land raider scoring unit and bubble wrap?

[Cpt. Blood Donator]

Would a tactical squad be better than an assault squad as regular land raider scoring unit and bubble wrap?

 

If they never go out, then it doesn't matter really. If they get out to shoot, then yes. If the enemy comes near, it might make more sense to have a RAS in the raider.

Also, they save like... 15 points on a raider xD. So it's a situational toss-up really.

[knife&fork]

Would a tactical squad be better than an assault squad as regular land raider scoring unit and bubble wrap?

 

If they never go out, then it doesn't matter really. If they get out to shoot, then yes. If the enemy comes near, it might make more sense to have a RAS in the raider.

Also, they save like... 15 points on a raider xD. So it's a situational toss-up really.

 

My thinking here was that the squad goes outside if there's a chance your opponent will deep strike or pod something within melta range. Or perhaps combat squad them so that the squad with the heavy weapon stays outside and the short range squad stays inside until needed.

 

Come to think of it the assault squad would probably do the job better. Two special weapons and more resilient to close combat.

[Papa Hoth]

Would a tactical squad be better than an assault squad as regular land raider scoring unit and bubble wrap?

 

 

Yes it would. A tac squad with flamer, missle launcher and pod comes in at a nice low 205 points. Your example of a 10 man assualt squad with a flamer, a melta gun and a land raider comes in at a whopping 420 points. Also let's look at what they can do. The threat radius of that assualt squad is only 12". And in that radius you are only talking 1 melta gun shot, 1 flamer and 8 bolt pistol shots. Count in the raider and you can add 2 las cannons, and the three heavy bolter shots. Beyond that 12" range you can only rely on the raider's firepower. Now with the tactical squad, at a 12" radius you have one missle, one flamer and 16 bolt gun shots. Beyond that 12" you still have the missle launcher and 8 bolt gun shots.

 

Also that firepower is alot more durable. Take for example an assualt squad deepstrikes next to your raider. One melta gun shot can potentially slag your longer range fire power. But with the tac squad you'll have to chew thru all 10 wounds before you can silence their firepower.

 

So for a squad that's going to be an objective sitter and provide medium to long range fire support, the tac squad is the way to go.

[Cpt. Blood Donator]

Would a tactical squad be better than an assault squad as regular land raider scoring unit and bubble wrap?

 

 

Yes it would. A tac squad with flamer, missle launcher and pod comes in at a nice low 205 points. Your example of a 10 man assualt squad with a flamer, a melta gun and a land raider comes in at a whopping 420 points. Also let's look at what they can do. The threat radius of that assualt squad is only 12". And in that radius you are only talking 1 melta gun shot, 1 flamer and 8 bolt pistol shots. Count in the raider and you can add 2 las cannons, and the three heavy bolter shots. Beyond that 12" range you can only rely on the raider's firepower. Now with the tactical squad, at a 12" radius you have one missle, one flamer and 16 bolt gun shots. Beyond that 12" you still have the missle launcher and 8 bolt gun shots.

 

Also that firepower is alot more durable. Take for example an assualt squad deepstrikes next to your raider. One melta gun shot can potentially slag your longer range fire power. But with the tac squad you'll have to chew thru all 10 wounds before you can silence their firepower.

 

So for a squad that's going to be an objective sitter and provide medium to long range fire support, the tac squad is the way to go.

 

Eeer, I thought he meant that the Tac Squad would have a raider as well. The part about an assault squad melta-ing it is only a problem against Blood Angels. No-one else except for Chaos, who don't use raptors anyway, poses a similiar threat.

[SnorriSnorrison]

After reading through this thread, I'm quite shocked how easily the good ol' tac squad is left aside, and not only the newbies with lesser experience, but also the battle-worn veterans agree completely with a very shallow and generalisative statement.

 

In all those games I played, I've never left home without at least one tactical squad. With the codex of 3rd Edition, Assault marines were not even troops, so the Tacs were a natural choice(of course, we had our infamous and deadly scouts, but their light armour was a downside, so for more PA on the table it was wise to take a Tactical Squad or two).

 

What a Tactical Squad in a Rhino can do is far more effective from what an Assault squad in a Rhino can do on similar level, which is close-range shooting. Tactical Marines excel at this. They decimate far bigger blobs of (light) infantry and prepare the way for our close combat specialists.

With a Rhino, they are even deadlier and can keep up with our jump-packed troops on the battlefield. They pump out bolter shots and have a wider range of special weapons to choose from. This makes them superior to Assault marines in this aspect. And, by the way, those two units should not be compared, their roles on the battlefield are completely different.

 

Those who list the unit composition of tacs as a weakness, for example that they need 10 men to get special weapons at all are missing the point.

Tacs are supposed to have 10 men. They are effective if fielded that way and not effective if fielded otherwise.

And those who like to say that their assault squads in razorbacks are far more effective in every aspect are missing the point again.

 

Those who argue that the Razorback makes up the assault squad's lack of longer-ranged weapons and makes them superior to Tacs in shooting should do that math again. Assault squads are do not shoot very well, except with their special weapons, and those should be used to pop transports and assault the disembarking enemies.

 

 

If the razorback gets blown up, you have a 5-men squad running around = dead meat. Their chances to survive the following shooting- and assault phase are indeed very small.

 

If the Rhino of the 10-men Tac squad gets blown up, their chances to survive are quite bigger because even though they have to walk, they are not completely useless. They can shoot up to 24", or be even deadlier at rapid fire range.

 

 

I do have the impression that a lot of our brethren suffer the "shiny-shiny" syndrome, even one year after the release of the codex. Of course, Assault Squads are great when taken at 10 men, but their effectiveness is reduced when put in razorbacks at 5 men. Why?

 

If, or lets say when, the AV11 transport gets blown up, your troop choices have no chance of surviving the rest of the game and therefore those players lose their ability to take objectives at all. And that's because the assault squad they embarked on the Razorback was only 5 men.

 

 

If I was to give any advice, or if anyone listened to me, I'd say a few things:

 

- Infantry is far more resistent against enemy fire than tanks are. Use big infantry squads encased in Rhinos/Landraiders/Stormravens, to max out their potential. This is true for almost every choice in our book, and especially for Tactical Squads.

 

- Relying on Razorbacks works only in spam lists. Those are lame, but each his own. If you wish to include Razorbacks into your list, it is wise to place an honour guard/death company or something else with similar punch into it. Assault Squads are not designed to fight at five men.

 

- Completely ignoring units from our codex may work with Techmarines, Sternguard and Captains(damn you, Matt Ward!), but not with such essential units such as the Tactical Squad. I honestly pity those who can't or don't want to see the uses of 10 battle-hardened marines with rapid firing boltguns.

 

 

Snorri out.

[Cpt. Blood Donator]

^

In a lot of lists, tacticals make no sense. 10 tacs in a rhino are 8 bolters not shooting, a brilliant wastr of

firepower, for just 240 points. It might work in a list built around these kind of units, but then C:SM does that

better.

[Gv0zD]

@ Snorri: Man, you're awesome! :cuss :)

[liberate_tutame]

- Infantry is far more resistent against enemy fire than tanks are. Use big infantry squads encased in Rhinos/Landraiders/Stormravens, to max out their potential.

 

False, on both counts . S4 cannot hurt a Rhino except when shooting at the rear armour. This is why mech has become more popular. 'Maxing out their potential' is a meaningless phrase. Units are useful in situations, and a tactical squad drop-poded can often have greater potential than a Tactical squad in a Landraider.

 

- Relying on Razorbacks works only in spam lists. Those are lame, but each his own. If you wish to include Razorbacks into your list, it is wise to place an honour guard/death company or something else with similar punch into it. Assault Squads are not designed to fight at five men.

 

False, again. An honour guard is a good suggestion with a Libby inside, but Death Company are best nine-man with a chaplain. Five DC just can't soak any wounds without becoming ineffective. The power in Razorback 'spam' lists is that it there is armour saturation, not five or six Razorbacks. The point being that you'll have five to six vehicles with AV 13 that your enemy needs to blow up AS WELL AS three or four Razorbacks that are immune to small arms fire and usually have a 5+ cover save from Shield. If you think it is lame, that's your opinion, but it is as 'shallow and generalizing' as anything anyone has said here about Tactical squads. Assault squads at five man are obviously not as effective as ten man squads, but they have a very different role. That ten does not equal five might sound obvious, but it seems as if you are expecting them to fulfil the same role. And, well, if you are doing that you are doing it wrong.

 

- Completely ignoring units from our codex may work with Techmarines, Sternguard and Captains(damn you, Matt Ward!), but not with such essential units such as the Tactical Squad. I honestly pity those who can't or don't want to see the uses of 10 battle-hardened marines with rapid firing boltguns.

 

Tacticals are only essential, indeed useful, in certain armies, and with certain playstyles. I have found ten man in a drop-pod with plasma and combi-plasma on the Sarge is a great unit in my hybrid mech/drop-pod army. But they are not for everyone. Try using a tactical squad in a DOA list for example.

[knife&fork]

What a Tactical Squad in a Rhino can do is far more effective from what an Assault squad in a Rhino can do on similar level, which is close-range shooting. Tactical Marines excel at this. They decimate far bigger blobs of (light) infantry and prepare the way for our close combat specialists.

With a Rhino, they are even deadlier and can keep up with our jump-packed troops on the battlefield. They pump out bolter shots and have a wider range of special weapons to choose from. This makes them superior to Assault marines in this aspect. And, by the way, those two units should not be compared, their roles on the battlefield are completely different.

 

The problem is that there are many other armies that do medium range shooting better than marines. It's not a place you usually want to be. The things you soften up with bolters are not the ones assault marines have a problem with. I can only think of dark eldar cc specialist and large mobs of genestealers where you would need more than the bolt pistol shots from an assault squad.

 

Those who list the unit composition of tacs as a weakness, for example that they need 10 men to get special weapons at all are missing the point.

Tacs are supposed to have 10 men. They are effective if fielded that way and not effective if fielded otherwise.

And those who like to say that their assault squads in razorbacks are far more effective in every aspect are missing the point again.

 

In the PDF codex the 5-man TAC squad with special weapon and a razorback made for a good objective claimer and late game mop up squad. Since this is no longer possible I have to take an assault squad for the same role. Combat squadding a 10 man is such a waste of points, I agree with you there.

 

Assault squads are do not shoot very well, except with their special weapons, and those should be used to pop transports and assault the disembarking enemies.

 

Why should they only do that? A mechanized five man assault squad are much better off with a flamer to offset their low numbers. Transports and armor should be dealt with using other means. I would even be hesitant to put a fist in such a small squad, they are likely better off with a PW/LC and maybe a combiweapon. Using a melta in a razorback squad makes little sense since you have to dismount to fire it, and even if you blow something up you have to wait until next turn to assault.

 

If the razorback gets blown up, you have a 5-men squad running around = dead meat. Their chances to survive the following shooting- and assault phase are indeed very small.

 

 

If the Rhino of the 10-men Tac squad gets blown up, their chances to survive are quite bigger because even though they have to walk, they are not completely useless. They can shoot up to 24", or be even deadlier at rapid fire range.

 

Indeed, an exposed 5 man squad on foot is very easy to pick apart, having such small squads as your only troops choice would very risky. The thing is that I don't see a lot of people doing that, except in gimmick lists. This argument about TAC squads has been around ever since the PDF codex, so it's not exactly new. The BA codex is simply more focused on offense than the standard codex marines and TACs are not that good on the offensive nor are they very good at long range fire support.

[SnorriSnorrison]

False, on both counts . S4 cannot hurt a Rhino except when shooting at the rear armour. This is why mech has become more popular. 'Maxing out their potential' is a meaningless phrase. Units are useful in situations, and a tactical squad drop-poded can often have greater potential than a Tactical squad in a Landraider.

 

Well, maybe you overlooked the part where I said that those infantry squads should be embarked in Rhinos or other vehicles? This is simply the delivery system for, as you correctly pointed out, vulnerable Space Marines.

Your argument does not consider that one shot can be enough to kill a tank, whereas you would probably need more to wipe out a 10 men squad in one round.

I agree with you that different units are useful in different situations, but last time I checked I didn't say otherwise. :)

Drop pods are indeed a very successful delivery system which I forgot to take into consideration in my last post. I apologise for this.

 

 

False, again. An honour guard is a good suggestion with a Libby inside, but Death Company are best nine-man with a chaplain. Five DC just can't soak any wounds without becoming ineffective. The power in Razorback 'spam' lists is that it there is armour saturation, not five or six Razorbacks. The point being that you'll have five to six vehicles with AV 13 that your enemy needs to blow up AS WELL AS three or four Razorbacks that are immune to small arms fire and usually have a 5+ cover save from Shield. If you think it is lame, that's your opinion, but it is as 'shallow and generalizing' as anything anyone has said here about Tactical squads. Assault squads at five man are obviously not as effective as ten man squads, but they have a very different role. That ten does not equal five might sound obvious, but it seems as if you are expecting them to fulfil the same role. And, well, if you are doing that you are doing it wrong.

 

At first, I'd like to say that I usually field a five men squad of DC with JP and Lemartes, and they make their points back in the majority of games.

 

Then, I can see your point in creating spam lists for pure tournament armies as I see the 'power' behind spam lists.

And yes, it is my opinion that I won't ever play against someone who stupidly spams his tanks on a battlefield again, halfly painted and half-heartedly glued models with a list downloaded from the internet and a gamer who likes to be a big tournament champion(this is, thankfully, a prejudice, and not all gamers are like that. I judge those who show up with those lists at their GW and proudly wipe the floor with youngbloods).

 

Assault squads in razorbacks actually only have the role to provide armour saturation. Once that armour is gone, their uses are extremely limited as they depend on their ride and its protection.

And I don't say that I expect the same from those 5 men as I would from 10 marines. In reference to the Tactical squad however, I think it is true to say that they only work at a strength of ten men. Anything else would be a waste of points.

 

 

Tacticals are only essential, indeed useful, in certain armies, and with certain playstyles. I have found ten man in a drop-pod with plasma and combi-plasma on the Sarge is a great unit in my hybrid mech/drop-pod army. But they are not for everyone. Try using a tactical squad in a DOA list for example.

 

I see where you're coming from. Indeed, in certain armies, Tacticals fulfill an important role and in other armies they don't. Even though, I think that one can always use a Tactical squad, may it be in mech armies or in DOA armies.

To use the example you provided, I've proxied a DoA list with 2 Assault squads as troops and one tactical squad in a drop pod.

furthermore, there was a Furioso in a drop pod which came down in the first turn to pop vehicles.

The tactical squad would come down in the second turn along with some of the DOA units, precisely on an enemy's objective to decimate the occupying forces. The drop pod is excellent for providing cover and a deadly delivery system for shooty units, and in a DOA army it can provide the objective holding element(in your opponent's deployment zone, mind you) while your jumppackers can engage the foe in close combat.

 

 

Well, I hope this is readable, I tried my best. :P

 

 

^

In a lot of lists, tacticals make no sense. 10 tacs in a rhino are 8 bolters not shooting, a brilliant wastr of

firepower, for just 240 points. It might work in a list built around these kind of units, but then C:SM does that

better.

If you wish a unit to shoot all the time, take devs. But the majority of players do not equip them with four heavy bolters, but rather plasma- or lascannons, so they fulfill another role, despite being a shooty unit as well.

 

Tacticals in a Rhino are perfect for providing cover for your assault marines, get out of their ride and unleash a firestorm to clear the way for your cc specialists. In order to make your assaults simultaneously and effective, it is wise to drive up to confront the enemy, await the shooting in the Rhino, next turn get out and decimate a strong unit to make the upcoming CC easier.

 

 

 

Snorri

[Cpt. Blood Donator]

Most of your points are valid Snorri, so I won't dispute then. I was a bit butthurt about you taking pity about us at first, but that I got over xD

 

About my playstyle, I'm an all or nothing man. For me a DOA list is one where everybody jumps in. Other than that, we're talking combi in my world =)

I'd love me some drop pods however, but I can't get around to buy them. They hurt the wallet too much for 35 points. Sadly.

[liberate_tutame]

Well, maybe you overlooked the part where I said that those infantry squads should be embarked in Rhinos or other vehicles?

 

Yes, I did, because you said, 'Infantry is far more resistent against enemy fire than tanks are' which is wrong, simply stating a single lascannon shot can kill a tank does not make the tank any less resistant to low strength weapons, and of course the chance of a lascannon penetrating the front armour of a Baal is only 1/3, pretty poor odds compared to its 2+ to wound on infantry, but now we are into hypotheticals, not an area I wanted to stray. Back to the statement, that you would follow it up with the statement use '[any transport] to maximise their potential' is a patently silly statement. Different transports work better for different units. The idea that you should be rolling around an assault vehicle (stormraven or Land Raider) with a Tactical Squad does not make much sense, that much should be obvious to you.

 

I'm surprised you field a 5 man DC and Lemartes with such good effect, off topic, do you deep-strike them? I consider such a unit over-costed, and without any invulnerable rather exposed.

 

Drop pods are indeed a very successful delivery system which I forgot to take into consideration in my last post. I apologise for this.

 

No need to apologise mate, we're having a pretty interesting discussion, although if the following paragraph is directed at me :rolleyes: (which I don't think it is)

'And yes, it is my opinion that I won't ever play against someone who stupidly spams his tanks on a battlefield again, halfly painted and half-heartedly glued models with a list downloaded from the internet and a gamer who likes to be a big tournament champion(this is, thankfully, a prejudice, and not all gamers are like that. I judge those who show up with those lists at their GW and proudly wipe the floor with youngbloods).'

 

'Spamming' tanks is as legitimate as an all DC or all jump troop DoA list. This sneering at mech BA that I see from time to time on this forum is tiresome. I like my BA tanks, I like my Furioso's. Deal with it.

Also while it might be popular amongst powergamers, any players to the hobby are a boon for the hobby. They must, after all, abide by the rules of the game, and thanks to the random nature dice rolls most armies can beat each other. Beating up on kids with Leafblowers is rather pointless. As with all games that have an element of skill you get better by playing opponents that are as good or better then you. And, as with you, I play to have fun, but I'd gladly take on all comers. Having said that I have been to a few tournaments and have never played someone I thought was a real a-hole. Competitive people, yes, and I think some people mistake that for being unfriendly. I think the intro for Kirby's 3++ blog says it best about competitive builds. Trying to be a better player and to make a better list does not make you a bad 40k player or a bad person.

 

To use the example you provided, I've proxied a DoA list with 2 Assault squads as troops and one tactical squad in a drop pod.

furthermore, there was a Furioso in a drop pod which came down in the first turn to pop vehicles.

 

Yep, I use them in a similar way to great effect. But for DoA lists I would consider part of their strength coming from the fact that they are entirely infantry, and as you said heavy weapons can only kill one marine a turn, thus negating a significant chunk of your opponents firepower. Diversifying weakens that advantage.

 

For my part I consider Tacticals in a Rhino an awkward unit. Assault Squads can do it better, firing out the two hatches with their meltaguns or flamers. Hosing units is effective but really, the Assault squad will be doing that going in anyways with their bolt pistols. It sounds like you might be removing too many bodies from the assault line by shooting them up like that.

As I said above, putting them in a Stormraven or a Land Raider is less effective then other choices that can more fully take advantage of the assault vehicle status. Razorback is better done by assault squads.

I think the place they find in my list is as a drop-podding rapid fire and late game scoring unit, but I think they can equally be used to sit back in your deployment zone and just snipe away as a scoring unit, something Dev's cannot do.

 

 

A mechanized five man assault squad are much better off with a flamer to offset their low numbers

 

Finally! Someone has discovered the truth! Yep, you are absolutely right knife&fork. I've found this by far the best deployment for my 5 man assault squads. Keep them nice and cheap.