Let's talk about Interceptors

[Gentlemanloser]

Which, as a codex special rule for the wepaons is obviously (:confused:) in addition to the base rule books +1A for using two of the same special CCWs. :rolleyes:

[Something Wycked]

Why would they give +2 attacks? Unless I'm missing something but it clearly states on pg 54 "The wielder of a pair of falchions has +1 attack" So by having 2 you get an extra 1 attack.

The argument that the pair of falchions giving 2 attacks goes like this- their special rules state they grant a bonus attack, and then there's a bonus attack from wielding paired weapons. Its really just RAW monkey business.

 

Who said they should only be mobile? They can also quickly set up in cover to act as a firebase. Even on the move they only really lose out against heavier armor, whereas all that S5 shooting is great after Shunting behind RAV10.

Its not that they "should always" be mobile, its that they will be the most mobile part of your army and anything requiring mobility will necessitate they do that job. While rapidly parking them in cover and setting up a forward firebase with them is certainly a viable tactic, I see that as potentially wasting 6 points per model over parking a Strike Squad in cover.

[Abaddonshand]

Actually, I make it 313 points :-/

 

no, it's 283. without breaking IP, the cost of the upgrades is 75pts total, add the 8 Interceptors and you get 283.

 

Just realised, I was counting upgrading 3 of the interceptors to falchions before adding everything else lol!

[Prathios]

Why would they give +2 attacks? Unless I'm missing something but it clearly states on pg 54 "The wielder of a pair of falchions has +1 attack" So by having 2 you get an extra 1 attack.

The argument that the pair of falchions giving 2 attacks goes like this- their special rules state they grant a bonus attack, and then there's a bonus attack from wielding paired weapons. Its really just RAW monkey business.

 

I happen to agree with it though, I mean why would they state it has a special rule of giving extra attacks at all if the base rulebook already covered this. So the pair of them give +1 and having two ccw's gives +1 so guys with these things have 3... that doesn't seem illogical. Though I'll readily admit if the intent was just to give them a single extra attack why didn't they just leave the entry blank or clarify it... it's a glaringly obvious issue.

[Brom MKIV]

This squad is not 253 points, it is actually 283.

By the god emperor your right! Man that really puts a damper on my morning. Hmmm it seems I may owe a few apologies for being over my pts limit, by alot. I was mistakenly under the impression that falchions were 5 pts each so ill have to drop a member of the squad. Embarrassing...

 

Edit: fixed mistake

[breng77]

I happen to agree with it though, I mean why would they state it has a special rule of giving extra attacks at all if the base rulebook already covered this. So the pair of them give +1 and having two ccw's gives +1 so guys with these things have 3... that doesn't seem illogical. Though I'll readily admit if the intent was just to give them a single extra attack why didn't they just leave the entry blank or clarify it... it's a glaringly obvious issue.

 

I think the intent was that since they would have 2 weapons they get the +1 attack, as it is the only nemisis weapon that you can get 2 of.

[Whitefireinferno]

I happen to agree with it though, I mean why would they state it has a special rule of giving extra attacks at all if the base rulebook already covered this. So the pair of them give +1 and having two ccw's gives +1 so guys with these things have 3... that doesn't seem illogical. Though I'll readily admit if the intent was just to give them a single extra attack why didn't they just leave the entry blank or clarify it... it's a glaringly obvious issue.

 

I think the intent was that since they would have 2 weapons they get the +1 attack, as it is the only nemisis weapon that you can get 2 of.

 

 

The thing is you can never have one of them so as far as I see it you must either be armed with 2 pairs of them or deal with your single extra attack. and before you say termies get the extra for a pair of lightning claws some termies can have single lightning claws. Think of it this way I have a chain held in both hands still does not mean I do have 2 weapons but people are still going to argue this and until the FAQ comes and says its one extra attack IMHO this is how it will work OR I WILL EAT A PAIR OF THEM.

[Chairman_woo]

This squad is not 253 points, it is actually 283.

I was mistakenly under the impression that halberds were 5 pts each so ill have to drop a member of the squad. Embarrassing...

 

But..... Halberds are 5 pts each.....

 

 

.....did you mean falcions?

[AngelofSorrow]

For what its worth I believe it will be faqd to +2A. This is the way I currently play it.

I'm not sure what "you can only take them as a pair not separately" has to do with it, but to each their own.

 

On topic: interceptors are IMO a combat unit. I use no special weapons 7 Falchions, 2 Halberds, and 1 Hammer. Justicar carries a halberd. Psybolt ammo of course but they turn just about any unit into mincemeat.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

After doing a lot of research on the interwebs I am really starting to warm up to a large squad of Interceptors. I think they definitely have a place in a competitive army...

 

http://greenblowfly.blogspot.com/2011/04/a...l#disqus_thread

 

 

G :P

[breng77]

For what its worth I believe it will be faqd to +2A. This is the way I currently play it.

I'm not sure what "you can only take them as a pair not separately" has to do with it, but to each their own.

 

On topic: interceptors are IMO a combat unit. I use no special weapons 7 Falchions, 2 Halberds, and 1 Hammer. Justicar carries a halberd. Psybolt ammo of course but they turn just about any unit into mincemeat.

 

I disagree, but never the less even with the +2 attacs for the cost of the unit you just mentioned that are not really that great.

 

10 intercepters is 260 points + 110 points in upgrades=370 points, more than 9 TH/SS termies. WHich they will kill with shooting and charging, but they lack the durability at that point cost. No invul save, means that they will likely kill one thing and get shot to pieces.

[AngelofSorrow]

For what its worth I believe it will be faqd to +2A. This is the way I currently play it.

I'm not sure what "you can only take them as a pair not separately" has to do with it, but to each their own.

 

On topic: interceptors are IMO a combat unit. I use no special weapons 7 Falchions, 2 Halberds, and 1 Hammer. Justicar carries a halberd. Psybolt ammo of course but they turn just about any unit into mincemeat.

 

I disagree, but never the less even with the +2 attacs for the cost of the unit you just mentioned that are not really that great.

 

10 intercepters is 260 points + 110 points in upgrades=370 points, more than 9 TH/SS termies. WHich they will kill with shooting and charging, but they lack the durability at that point cost. No invul save, means that they will likely kill one thing and get shot to pieces.

370pts of violating ork mobs, space marines in power armor, and squadrons of vehicles. I don't compare units i use to units in other codices that is folly. The unit has performed well in every game I have played. Using them in conjunction with 3 teleport dreadknights is amazing.

[breng77]

Yes they can kill alot of things, but saying that they can kill a mob of orks, that costs half as much (as do most of the things you listed.), I'm certainly not saying don't use them, but they are a very expensive glass cannon. Given that you are using them with 615 (minimum) points of Dreadknights, make me also thing that you are only playing at 2000 points and above in most cases as those 4 units make up most of your army, otherwise.

[Hashshashin]

I have been thinking of using them as a small 5 man, 1 hammer, 1 psycannon to just make a spear tip into the center of the board, lay down some suppressing/distracting fire, to allow my other units in rhinos/razors to boost 12 and get up and support them. Then shunt them later in the game for objective shenanigans.

 

I think they seem usful bbut can get expensive quick. I think a small easily hid distraction unit could be really helpful though.

Just my thoughts...

[Something Wycked]

I happen to agree with it though, I mean why would they state it has a special rule of giving extra attacks at all if the base rulebook already covered this. So the pair of them give +1 and having two ccw's gives +1 so guys with these things have 3... that doesn't seem illogical. Though I'll readily admit if the intent was just to give them a single extra attack why didn't they just leave the entry blank or clarify it... it's a glaringly obvious issue.

They're not stating a special rule of giving an extra attack; its restating the BRB's standard rule of +1 attack for paired weapons.

 

It was silly of them to not say: "Pair of Nemesis Force Weapons named Falchions" to differentiate them from the +1 invuln NFSword and not cause this +1 attack confusion. But that's what they are- simply paired NFW with no special bonuses.

 

More on topic...

 

Interceptors are mobile infantry. You can kit them out for assault and they'll do well; you can give them lots of ranged weapons and they'll do well. Mobility only enhances the advantages of both purposes- it allows you to apply their force when and where you need it applied.

 

Like all things GK, however, spending too much on them is certainly a concern. Like Strike Squads, I would recommend not investing too many points in them, because they're just Marines; they die as easily as any other Marine, and cost significantly more than other Marines, especially if you make them cost as much as a Terminator squad.

[Drachnon]

Can we stop turning every thread into a thread about falchions?

 

I haven't played with interceptors yet but I think they will become a nice addition to my army. If you have first turn and given them scout they can assault pretty much any enemy unit of choice in first turn, if you get second turn you can use it as a last turn objective grab. I think falchions are too expensive for interceptors (also on strike squads) but I will probably field them with a hammer and 2 halberds.

[Prathios]

Can we stop turning every thread into a thread about falchions?

 

I haven't played with interceptors yet but I think they will become a nice addition to my army. If you have first turn and given them scout they can assault pretty much any enemy unit of choice in first turn, if you get second turn you can use it as a last turn objective grab. I think falchions are too expensive for interceptors (also on strike squads) but I will probably field them with a hammer and 2 halberds.

 

You comment about every thread and falchions... and then talk about them being too expensive... ^_^

[BrotherWasted]

I happen to agree with it though, I mean why would they state it has a special rule of giving extra attacks at all if the base rulebook already covered this. So the pair of them give +1 and having two ccw's gives +1 so guys with these things have 3... that doesn't seem illogical. Though I'll readily admit if the intent was just to give them a single extra attack why didn't they just leave the entry blank or clarify it... it's a glaringly obvious issue.

They're not stating a special rule of giving an extra attack; its restating the BRB's standard rule of +1 attack for paired weapons.

 

It was silly of them to not say: "Pair of Nemesis Force Weapons named Falchions" to differentiate them from the +1 invuln NFSword and not cause this +1 attack confusion. But that's what they are- simply paired NFW with no special bonuses.

 

More on topic...

 

Interceptors are mobile infantry. You can kit them out for assault and they'll do well; you can give them lots of ranged weapons and they'll do well. Mobility only enhances the advantages of both purposes- it allows you to apply their force when and where you need it applied.

 

Like all things GK, however, spending too much on them is certainly a concern. Like Strike Squads, I would recommend not investing too many points in them, because they're just Marines; they die as easily as any other Marine, and cost significantly more than other Marines, especially if you make them cost as much as a Terminator squad.

 

That's just your intepretation. There is no need to restate BRB rules in a Codex - if they only wanted the falchions to grant +1, all they needed to say was that they count as having an additional close combat weapon. No extra attacks from the Codex, +1 from the BRB gives +1 in total.

 

I'm having great fun with Falchion Interceptors - they're a C:SM Assault Squad on crack - all those crappy wounds that get saved don't matter to an Interceptor Squad, even when you play with just +1A Falchions. Hammerhand ensures I easily wipe out a full Tactical or 5-Man Termie Squad after my shooting and charge. Shunting to contest an objective is awesome as well.

[Abaddonshand]

I find myself in a dilemma, do I use 2 squads of interceptors without falchions, and a single dreadknight with incinerator and teleporter, meaning I need to downgrade my librarian to an inquisitor, or do I use a single interceptor squad with falchions and 2 dreadknights with just teleporters? The rest of the army is comprised of 2 250point strike squads on foot, and one 10 man terminator squad. This is at 2000pts, and one heck of a problem. I like the librarian, but I can give the inquisitor psychic communion, and rad and psychotroke grenades. The plan was always to put the HQ with the termies and have them camp on the home objective, shunt the interceptors/ dreadknights and deepstrike the strike squads to give fire support and hold the objectives cleared by the shunters. The inquisitor set up would ensure this happens when I want thanks to communion, but the librarian does have some amazing powers. What to do!?

 

EDIT: also, I should say I really like the falchions modelwise on the interceptors, and liked how it would make the squads look different, I.e. Halberds on terminators, swords on strikes, falchions on interceptors.

[iamnothere]

Well that's a toughy. My lists differnent so I don't have the slot for a second DK - go for interceptors if you're not putting guns on the DK.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

I'd drop the incinerator for a greatsword to start with, dunno why you're taking guns before that hax blade (srsly, re-rolls in combat is insane). You can get away with no greatsword and just teleporter if you only hunt enemy vehicles (ie non-walkers), but adding the greatsword lets you eat infantry squads and some monsters/heroes.

 

Moar dudemanz > less dudemanz, so I'd take two squads of Interceptors and a greatsword+teleporter Dreadknight. You should use the points you were going to expend on a second Dreadknight to buy a PsyDread instead (depending on what upgrades you give the Interceptors, you could even fit in another one).

 

Do not downgrade your Librarian to an Inquisitor, hax grenades are fun but the Librarian brings abilities found nowhere else in the army ('Shrouding' and 'Sanctuary' in particular will be a god-send to your foot-slogging phalanx of Strikes and Terminators). I'd also advise against investing heavily in Terminators, 5 is usually sufficient as a meatshield to the Librarian (especially with cover and 'Shrouding'). If you drop 5 Termies out, that lets you afford the Dreadknight+2 x Interceptor squad build I mentioned earlier.

[Something Wycked]

That's just your intepretation.

And that's just your interpretation. Easy to say, eh? :wink: There's no "need" to restate BRB rules, but they do it all the time.

 

@ Abaddonshand: check out this post, it might give you some ideas about how to solve your dilemma

 

I really think Interceptors (and PT DK's) are the strongest unit in the codex. Their mobility solves the issue of limited range rather nicely, whether you want to shoot or assault.

 

@ Reclusiarch Darius: because the HI can incinerate entire units at a time from 12" away :P Seriously, a fully-posable flame template. Played Necrons recently and it was catching entire units every time it fired. Guaranteed to score double the casualties of your sword, or we'll give you your points back!

[Brother Valerius]

That's just your intepretation.

And that's just your interpretation.

 

And with that, you two have just summed up the argument in its entirety. There is no argument to clinch this debate one way or the other. It's a personal interpretation no matter which way you turn.

[BrotherWasted]

Exactly. Nobody knows the answer.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Falchions = not relevant. Keep the debate somewhere else (aren't there like 3 threads about this already)

 

@ Reclusiarch Darius: because the HI can incinerate entire units at a time from 12" away Seriously, a fully-posable flame template. Played Necrons recently and it was catching entire units every time it fired. Guaranteed to score double the casualties of your sword, or we'll give you your points back!

 

Yeah, but it's completely useless against vehicles, or anything with power/TDA/FNP. Guns are largely secondary on the Dreadknight, it's when you charge that most of it's strengths (2+ armour, high Toughness, multiple high Strength power weapon/2D6 armour pen attacks at WS5) come to the fore. So by all means, take heavy incinerators (they are my second choice to the heavy psycannon, but then again I roll like a pro for direct hits with blast weapons), but if it comes down to a choice between it or a greatsword (or some other upgrades elsewhere in the army), I think you can afford to ditch the guns. Anti-infantry firepower is not something Knights struggle with (for that matter, I find the army tends to curbstomp infantry just fine, it's armour we suck against), so while fun the heavy incinerator and heavy psycannon are more luxuries than necessities. It's a forgone conclusion your Dreadknight will end up in close-combat, and once there a greatsword is a huge boon.

 

You forget how bloody and one-way close-combat is in 40k, compared to the slow attrition that ranged attacks usually are (having to hit, wound, and then have the enemy fail enough saves to all die). In close-combat, you only need to kill enough to force No Retreat/Sweeping Advance, and you can wipe entire squads off the map/maul them to the point that they're just shielding you in the enemy Shooting phase, as by the end of the enemy Assault phase you'll eat/Sweep the rest. I've had several games with my greatsword+teleporter Dreadknight, and he gets to fire his gun (I alternate between psycannon and incinerator, still not decided) very rarely. On the other hand, he tends to eat 2-3 squads and several vehicles a game, before massed fire takes him out. In that time, my army moves up and is largely intact (except in that one match where I stupidly chose to Deepstrike and rolled 1's for Reserves consistently :( ).

 

Outside of PsyDreads, the Vindicare and the Stormraven (Jokaero are Coteaz-only, Landraiders are redundant now we have cheap transports and free frags everywhere), we don't have weapons that can reach out and reliably destroy armour in the early game (it's only about Turn 3 or so that our advancing psycannons make range on the enemy). Dreadknights are fast enough to hunt down even Eldar armour, and combined with the greatsword you'll not only penetrate most armour, you'll cause multiple damage results (which is the key difference between the 'one shot wonder' of something like a railgun, and the massed meltagun/missile launcher of other forces).