henrywalker Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 so i was rereading the brotherhood champion entry, specifically the heroic sacrifice bit. it says: "the brotherhood champion makes a single attack against ONE ENEMY MODEL that was in base contact when he died. if this attack hits both models are removed as casualties with no saves of any kind allowed" there is no restriction as to what model. what if i'm touching a monolith? more importantly. imagine we're playing apocalypse, there is an imperator titan on the table and i'm in base contact. i think you can see where i'm going with this. any idea how we interpret this? about the base contact. i would ay that this only refers to the champions base, ie the other model doen't need a base. in the rule book it refers to base to base contact which implies they both have a base Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228327-heroic-sacrifice/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inquisitor =D= Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 This oversight has been a great source or comedy ever since the codex came out. Heck, even now I'm chuckling about it. R.A.W. = Heroic Sacrifice will destroy ANY MODEL that was in base contact. So yes, Monolith =Yes, Titan =Yes. R.A.I. = I believe they meant any Infantry, Walker, or Monstrous Creature. But they didn't write that! :huh: Love the loopholes while they last. =]D[= Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228327-heroic-sacrifice/#findComment-2735926 Share on other sites More sharing options...
henrywalker Posted April 25, 2011 Author Share Posted April 25, 2011 lol, so i have about 6 months till an FAQ run out to play as many apocalypse games as possible. i really cannot wait to do this. i think i'll see my opponents face and then let him have it back if he wants but still. will definitely use it against c'tan, greater daemons etc. its gotta be the most powerful weapon in the 40k univers then, if i hit you die no matter who or what you are no matter what you do. loving it. also your never really going to miss are you. well, unlikely, about 87% accuracy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228327-heroic-sacrifice/#findComment-2735936 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacefrisian Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 I would love to see the face of the player who tries this when his champion is in basecontact with Lady Malys of the Dark Eldar codex. That would be epic. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228327-heroic-sacrifice/#findComment-2735944 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitefireinferno Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 I would love to see the face of the player who tries this when his champion is in basecontact with Lady Malys of the Dark Eldar codex. That would be epic. It would be like marriage right? a lifetime in hell together :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228327-heroic-sacrifice/#findComment-2735957 Share on other sites More sharing options...
henrywalker Posted April 25, 2011 Author Share Posted April 25, 2011 why? i just read a (very blurry) version of her rules and i didn't see anything too special Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228327-heroic-sacrifice/#findComment-2735964 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 She's immune to all Psychic Powers (Well her and her Squad). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228327-heroic-sacrifice/#findComment-2735983 Share on other sites More sharing options...
spu00sed Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 She's immune to all Psychic Powers (Well her and her Squad). But is she being effected by a psychic power? Or is the brotherhood champion being effected by the psychic power? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228327-heroic-sacrifice/#findComment-2735993 Share on other sites More sharing options...
henrywalker Posted April 25, 2011 Author Share Posted April 25, 2011 good point, couldn't read that on the page, i'd say that it affects him. he uses psychic power to bolster himself. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228327-heroic-sacrifice/#findComment-2735999 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 And that's the million dollar question. Same applies to Null Rods. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228327-heroic-sacrifice/#findComment-2736000 Share on other sites More sharing options...
henrywalker Posted April 25, 2011 Author Share Posted April 25, 2011 fair enough. however i will just go titan hunting and laugh in an evil way while my opponent weeps and contemplates taking his own life with a lascannon Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228327-heroic-sacrifice/#findComment-2736002 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decoy Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 I see that the Gray Knights are now attempting to emulate Lukas the Trickster. I've been doing this sort of thing since the Dex update, and have racked up three Titans, a Land Raider (and everything inside it), and countless infantry models with 'em. That sort of thing is just fun to do. :D Enjoy it for a while, mate, I'm willing to bet it won't be FAQed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228327-heroic-sacrifice/#findComment-2736012 Share on other sites More sharing options...
henrywalker Posted April 25, 2011 Author Share Posted April 25, 2011 didnt know about lukas, the faq came down in favor of titan killer though right? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228327-heroic-sacrifice/#findComment-2736025 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_son_of_Dorn Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 Maybe a Lucius the Eternal killer afterall :angry: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228327-heroic-sacrifice/#findComment-2736040 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacefrisian Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 She's immune to all Psychic Powers (Well her and her Squad). But is she being effected by a psychic power? Or is the brotherhood champion being effected by the psychic power? She is immune to any and all effects from psychic powers regardless of the source or what it does. "crystal heart if iam not mistaken" Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228327-heroic-sacrifice/#findComment-2736091 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherWasted Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 As is her squad. So, no you can't go and sacrifice your Champion on one of her escorts, either. "Lady Malys is completely immune to the effects of psychic powers, as is any squad she joins." - Dark Eldar Codex You can't shoot her with Jaws, you can't sacrifice her with Brotherhood Champ, you also cannot force Sanctuary on her squad. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228327-heroic-sacrifice/#findComment-2736132 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelis Mortis Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 what if i'm touching a monolith? more importantly. imagine we're playing apocalypse, there is an imperator titan on the table and i'm in base contact. i think you can see where i'm going with this. To be perfectly honest, I really don't have a problem with this per se. We have precedent all through Hollywood and GW fluff for just such heroics. Here are some examples. 1)Luke Skywalker tossing a nade inside the AT-AT on Hoth. (Granted he lived, but the principle is the same) 2)The drunken crop duster flying the F-18 up into the mothership in Independence Day. 3)Johnny Rico taking out the giant plasma bug with a nade in Starship Troopers. 4)Perseus taking out the Kraken in Clash of the Titans. 5)Legolas killing the Oliphant in Lord of the Rings. 6)In the book the Hobbit, Bard killed Smaug the Dragon with a singe arrow. 7)In Terminator, Kyle Reese sacrificed himself and although he didn't destroy the Terminator he nearly did.(Consider that a missed hit or failed psychic test) 8)In GW fluff there are references to lone Deathwatch teams infiltrating and taking out an entire Hiveship. 9)In GW fluff, each of the Primarchs single handedly conquered entire worlds they landed on as children. Basically all I'm saying is, its adds some real character to the game in that GK are supposed to be the Heroes of Heroes. To see one do something thought impossible is what makes them a Hero. So, that sacrifice where the GK gives that final push, ignoring his wounds and pain and climbs up that Imperators leg, rips off that access panel, then jams his NFW in and expels his lifes energy into it causing a catastrophic chain reaction isn't that big a stretch for me. As far as for game purposes, if your playing that Imperator and you see him on the board, you better let him have a couple D plates. I don't blame GW for the rule, I would blame myself for realizing it and not dealing with it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228327-heroic-sacrifice/#findComment-2736138 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelis Mortis Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 As is her squad. So, no you can't go and sacrifice your Champion on one of her escorts, either. "Lady Malys is completely immune to the effects of psychic powers, as is any squad she joins." - Dark Eldar Codex You can't shoot her with Jaws, you can't sacrifice her with Brotherhood Champ, you also cannot force Sanctuary on her squad. See thats where a debate would come it with Heroic Sacrifice. Your not using the Psychic Power on her or her squad, your using it on the Grey Knight. We don't know exactly what the killing effect is, it may be as simple as guiding your hand to a weak spot or something like seeing a few seconds into the future and being able to predict what is going to happen and act accordingly or a myriad of other effects. None of this is actually affecting the Lady or her squad, it is affecting the Grey Knight. Absolutely she and her squad would be invulnerable to NFW activation and she would be affected by shrouding as that isn't cast on them. The effect is on the GK its was cast on, not on the lady. It doesn't say "any squad the target squad shoots at gets a cover save of +1" it says "the targeted squad gets a cover save or +1". Hammerhand would affect them as well, because again, thats cast on the GK, not the lady. I just ask myself this simple question. Who is the power actually targeting? In the Hammerhand example, they lady is not being technically affected by it, she is being affected by the GK's strength. The GK was affected by the Hammerhand. There are other examples of being immune to psychic powers in the game (null rod for example) which all that means is simply you can not be the target of a psychic power or affected by its area affect (ie, Holocaust, etc). It doesn't mean you ignore benefits placed on other targets. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228327-heroic-sacrifice/#findComment-2736150 Share on other sites More sharing options...
XaClocKWorKoX Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 the force activation is on the GK and not the lady so tech she would suffer the affects of a NFW attack its not a pyshic attack against her. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228327-heroic-sacrifice/#findComment-2736159 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherWasted Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 Anything that happens after the Psychic test is an effect of the psychic power. Is she the chosen model in B2B with the Champion? Yes. Therefore it is an effect of the power that an attack is made against her. She is therefore also immune to the effects of that attack if successful and cannot be removed from the table in this way. Notice that the ability says "completely immune". You don't have to target her, you just need to ask "would something happen to her if I used this psychic power?". If she would be affected when resolving a Psychic power in any way, she and her squad are immune. She does need to be "targetted", merely affected. Her ability works exactly the same as a Null Rod, which states that the unit "cannot be affected by psychic powers (friendly or enemy) in any way". If I cast Holocaust and scatter onto her unit, even though she was not the unit I aimed at, she is immune. If I cast Jaws and it passes through her unit, she is immune. If I cast Hammerhand, I agree, she is not immune - she is not being effected by the power, but the attacks made in the assault phase. If I cast Sanctuary and she charges me, she is immune - she would be forced to take the Difficult/Dangerous terrain tests due to the psychic power, therefore she does not have to. If I activate my Force Weapon, she would suffer instant death - activation of NFW is not an actual Psychic Power. It counts towards the one psychic test per psyker rule, but it not a listed psychic power. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228327-heroic-sacrifice/#findComment-2736224 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMouth Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 what he said ^^^ x100 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228327-heroic-sacrifice/#findComment-2736274 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judanas Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 I kinda want to see the Brotherhood Champion who tries it on St Celestine. First Shield of Faith, then Hit her and even then, she's coming back. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228327-heroic-sacrifice/#findComment-2736291 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelis Mortis Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 the force activation is on the GK and not the lady so tech she would suffer the affects of a NFW attack its not a pyshic attack against her. I disagree. The NFW attack has a target, and thats the model you hit with it. The Psychic attack comes after you've made the wound. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228327-heroic-sacrifice/#findComment-2736308 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelis Mortis Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 Anything that happens after the Psychic test is an effect of the psychic power. Is she the chosen model in B2B with the Champion? Yes. Therefore it is an effect of the power that an attack is made against her. She is therefore also immune to the effects of that attack if successful and cannot be removed from the table in this way. Notice that the ability says "completely immune". You don't have to target her, you just need to ask "would something happen to her if I used this psychic power?". If she would be affected when resolving a Psychic power in any way, she and her squad are immune. She does need to be "targetted", merely affected. Her ability works exactly the same as a Null Rod, which states that the unit "cannot be affected by psychic powers (friendly or enemy) in any way". If I cast Holocaust and scatter onto her unit, even though she was not the unit I aimed at, she is immune. If I cast Jaws and it passes through her unit, she is immune. If I cast Hammerhand, I agree, she is not immune - she is not being effected by the power, but the attacks made in the assault phase. If I cast Sanctuary and she charges me, she is immune - she would be forced to take the Difficult/Dangerous terrain tests due to the psychic power, therefore she does not have to. If I activate my Force Weapon, she would suffer instant death - activation of NFW is not an actual Psychic Power. It counts towards the one psychic test per psyker rule, but it not a listed psychic power. I think we agree for the most part. In all your examples I agree with you save the Force Weapon one. On page 50 of the BRB it clearly calls the instant death effect another psychic power. Therefore the Lady and squad should be immune to it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228327-heroic-sacrifice/#findComment-2736313 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelis Mortis Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 I kinda want to see the Brotherhood Champion who tries it on St Celestine. First Shield of Faith, then Hit her and even then, she's coming back. Correct me if I'm wrong, as I don't have my C:WH on me, but doesn't she have to make a Leadership test to come back, and if she fails she doesn't come back? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228327-heroic-sacrifice/#findComment-2736318 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.