heroic sacrifice

[Vindicatus]

She.

 

Is.

 

Not.

 

A.

 

Null rod.

 

Her power affects her and her unit.

 

Powers used on your own units suddenly don't stop working because you're in base to base with her. That's like saying you don't get +2I from Halberds when fighting anything 40mm based and above, simply because the model happens to be bigger and negates the reach.

[Gibious]

Just like the old eldar doom and fortune vs our null rod.

 

Doom gets negated, fortune would still be casted. Its why we took that unlimited range hood =)

 

So IMO HH would still work against her and her squad. But the HS? dont it mention you target a model that is b2b? I would then class it as a doom power.

 

-Gib-

[Gentlemanloser]

And please show us where it says in her rule she must be the target of the power?

 

She ignores Sanctuary, even though it doesn't target her. She ignores VoT. She ignores the effects of every Psychic Power in the game.

 

If they would have an effect on her, they don't. From increasing the S of a unit attacking her, to causing an area of ground to be dangerous terrain, to giving a unit she attacks an Invulnerable save.

 

It's silly, and I'd hope it would be FAQed, but that's how it is currently.

[XaClocKWorKoX]

two notes

 

F her she getting shot with a lascannon

 

and two my left over easter dinner is yummy

[Gentlemanloser]

LoL!

 

I miss Chocolate. <_< /sniff

 

Easter has been harder than Xmas to resist the stuff!

[Brother Valerius]

And please show us where it says in her rule she must be the target of the power?

 

Don't be silly, it's implied. If she ignores the effect, it is necessary for her to be the target. Period.

[Gentlemanloser]

Implied is worth the paper it's written on!

 

VoT doesn't target Malis, but she still ignores it when shooting Harlies.

 

Same as Null Rods did and still do.

[Angelis Mortis]

does she act as a null rod?

 

because it sounds like it states that any direct pyshic affect is immune to her and her unit. and hammerhand and HS are not direct at her/her unit.

 

you are reading in between the lines on the life or death of one model when the real problem is that HS can drop a damn titan. ( now that makes no sense unless its fluff )

 

Luke Skywalker took out an AT AT with a lightsaber and a grenade. There are many other examples above. I don't know any greater heroes in the Imperium than the GK (fluff wise) so its very fitting that one could very well take out a Titan. If that Titan was smart he would hit the Champ with a couple D strength pie plates for good measure before he ever got close.

[Angelis Mortis]

The Cally and C'Tan *aren't* the BC though...

 

You miss the point.

 

Normally, the BC *can't* remvoe from play (and I'm not talking ID here either). This is only the effect of a Psychic Power. It takes a Psychic Power and a Psychic Test (and a to hit roll), to do that.

 

Malis and a Null Rod are immune to that.

 

And this is where you miss the point. While with the C'tan its their normal everyday power, its a power of the BCs also, he just has to pass a psychic test to be able to do it.

 

The key factors being;

 

1)Its cast on the BC not the target

2)It gives the BC a special ablity that his next hit removes a model from play. (Note this is different than Insant Death as well and will remove Eternal Warriors.

3)The psychic test is taken before the attack roll. Therefore its a buff and not an effect.

 

For the lady to be immune it would have to be like this:

 

1)The BC attacks

2) The BC makes a psychic test to kill the lady.

 

That would be the same as a NFW, which we all agreed she is indeed immune to. HS is different.

[henrywalker]

the steroid example is a good one. if you say that malis is immune to steroids and that the BC takes steroids in order to be big and strong that doesn't mean that he won't be strong when he hits her.

 

for what its worth i've asked various laypeople un-prepped what they think and they agree that she is not immune.

[Drachnon]

I'd have to argue that rulewise she would be immune. Though indeed the part of the power that allows the BC to make one last attack doesn't affect her and therefore wouldn't be canceled out the part that says remove both models from play does effect her and is then nullified due to her special rule.

[Spacefrisian]

Shes immune to the effects of the insta death by psy power end of story for me..

[Gentlemanloser]

Oh, and her rule is near enough identicle to that of the Null Rod.

[Angelis Mortis]

Oh, and her rule is near enough identicle to that of the Null Rod.

 

There is no such thing as "near identical" or "almost the same". Either they are the same or they are different. Unfortunately in this case, they are not the same.

[Gentlemanloser]

What 'affect' instead of 'effect'?

 

How does that really change things?

 

Lady Malys is completely immune to the effects of psychic powers, as is any unit she joins.

 

the bearer (and his squad) cannot be affected by psychic powers (friendly or enemy) in any way

 

What's the practical differences between the two, that make them not be writen exactly the same matter?

[Angelis Mortis]

Implied is worth the paper it's written on! :)

 

VoT doesn't target Malis, but she still ignores it when shooting Harlies.

 

Same as Null Rods did and still do.

 

I don't have a problem with her not being affected by the VoT because the VoT is directly affecting her. Even though it is a buff, the powers specific effect target is her (or anyone) shooting at the Harlies. Its the same as Sanctuary which we agreed she would ignore because the powers direct effect was affecting her. The mechanics are different for HS. The powers direct effect is affecting the Champion, not the lady.

[Gentlemanloser]

No they're not.

 

VoT is a buff to the Harlies in the same way HH is a buff to GK and Fortune is to the Eldar.

 

Either she ignores all buffs that effect anything she does, or she doesn't.

 

To use your own words, HS directly effects Malys, by removing her from play.

[Brother Valerius]

The rules are close enough, however, a null rod wouldn't catch Heroic Sacrifice either. The steroids argument is very apt. If you're immune to them, that doesn't mean someone who juices up won't hit you harder.

 

I did mis-speak earlier, as the lady doesn't need to be targeted per se (an AoE power wouldn't affect her, for example, even though it doesn't target her). Her rule still doesn't stop Heroic Sacrifice. If it was worded like so: "If the Psychic test is successful, one model in base contact with the Brotherhood Champion is removed", then it would apply. However, that's not how it works. She is getting hit by an attack with special properties, not a psychic power and her rule doesn't apply.

[Gentlemanloser]

HS is a Psychic Power....

[Brother Valerius]

So? It's a Psychic Power that grants an attack. It doesn't affect her. The attack does.

[Gentlemanloser]

The whole thing is a Psychic Power. You hood it, you stop the whole thing. She's immune to the whole thing.

 

That's like saying you could hit her with *any* Psychic Shooting attack, as the power only gives you a shooting attack. It's the shooting attack that hits her, not the power.

[Brother Valerius]

No, it's nothing like that. In the case of a psychic shooting attack, the psychic power is an attack that hits her. HS is a psychic power that buffs the BC, not a psychic attack that hits her. I honestly don't see how it's not obvious to everyone, and we're probably going to have to agree to disagree on this one because we clearly have entirely different interpretations of the game rules.

[henrywalker]

No, it's nothing like that. In the case of a psychic shooting attack, the psychic power is an attack that hits her. HS is a psychic power that buffs the BC, not a psychic attack that hits her. I honestly don't see how it's not obvious to everyone, and we're probably going to have to agree to disagree on this one because we clearly have entirely different interpretations of the game rules.

 

 

Maybe that's a good idea. I had no idea I'd start something this big off. It may get faq or something but for now relax, it's a game.

[Angelis Mortis]

The whole thing is a Psychic Power. You hood it, you stop the whole thing. She's immune to the whole thing.

 

That's like saying you could hit her with *any* Psychic Shooting attack, as the power only gives you a shooting attack. It's the shooting attack that hits her, not the power.

 

If we go with your argument, then she is also immune to Psycannons, Psybolts, and especially Psilencers. They are all augmented or in the case of the Psilencer, pure psychic energy. Sure they are weapons, but they are powered by Psychic energy.

[Something Wycked]

Heroic Sacrifice is not a psychic attack, it is a self buff. The psychic power doesn't even require there be a valid enemy target to activate.

 

1.) Champion takes an unsaved wound

2.) Heroic Sacrifice is "unlocked"

3.) Psychic test is performed

....a.) Test fails, Champion is removed as a casualty

....b.) Test succeeds, proceed to 4

4.) Champion is permitted 1 attack out of initiative order

....a.) No enemy model in BTB; Champion is removed from the board

5.) Champion rolls an attack against an enemy model in BTB

....a.) Attack hits; both are removed from the board

....b.) Attack misses; Champion only is removed from the board

 

Its pretty clear that its not a psychic attack like activating a Force Weapon's Instant Death is; the Force Weapon's power has a direct line between psychic test > instant death with no buffer of a friendly unit between them.