Cmdr Shepard Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 Under what circumstances the use of Rad/Psychotroke grenades grants a significant, or even essential, advantage over the enemy? They served me well everytime but I wonder when their use is really necessary and when we should/could allocate their cost to something different. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228367-radpsychotroke-grenades-when-are-they-essential/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelis Mortis Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 I find them to be a matter of personal preference. I can play with or without them, but they do make significant improvements to the model bearing them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228367-radpsychotroke-grenades-when-are-they-essential/#findComment-2736462 Share on other sites More sharing options...
spu00sed Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 I think rad grenades are a must. on their own you are killing guard and eldar on 2+ With hammer hand you are killing MEQs on 2+. Throw in might of titan and your average MC is wounded on a 3+ Combined with being offensive and defensive they really help the GK in assaults. Psychtroke are a different matter. If you want some random fun then take them, but don't rely upon them. My use of them so far have been Reducing a 1 wound abbadon to Ld2 Allowing me to auto hit a unit of Blood angel assault troops and reducing them to 1A Forcing a unit of Blood angel assault troops to make I tests to hit me (none of them failed). Allowing me to reroll to hit rolls against a tactical squad (why is this a higher score than auto hitting the enemy and reducing them to 1 attack?) Allowing me to auto hit Dante and reduce him to 1 attack. Overall they have been fun, but not game winning results, but I still like the idea of my grand master throwing a sack of grenades at my opponent. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228367-radpsychotroke-grenades-when-are-they-essential/#findComment-2736483 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr Shepard Posted April 25, 2011 Author Share Posted April 25, 2011 My use of them so far have been Reducing a 1 wound abbadon to Ld2 Allowing me to auto hit a unit of Blood angel assault troops and reducing them to 1A Forcing a unit of Blood angel assault troops to make I tests to hit me (none of them failed). Allowing me to reroll to hit rolls against a tactical squad (why is this a higher score than auto hitting the enemy and reducing them to 1 attack?) Allowing me to auto hit Dante and reduce him to 1 attack. Overall they have been fun, but not game winning results, but I still like the idea of my grand master throwing a sack of grenades at my opponent. My most recent experience with Psychotroke granades has been against Chaos Space marine. My opponent tried to assault my Paladin unit, with an ordo Xeno Inquisitor among them with Abaddon in order to prevent me to contend an objective (a very tactic in my opinion) but failed terrain test. next turn I charged him : he was reduced to I1 and finally killed by a Paladin at I4 (it was the one equiped with warding stave to deliver the killing blow). The Chaos player was extremely frustrated, especially when he noticed this move declared my victory. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228367-radpsychotroke-grenades-when-are-they-essential/#findComment-2736493 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bl00d bath76 Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 If you have a choice between rad and psycostroke this depends on the size of the unit. Big unit take rad grenades as the decrease in toughness helps a lot. Small units rad grenades will have little effect yet a good role on the psykstroke grnades can make a huge difference. In my opinion you should always take both and when you can take as many of these as possible... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228367-radpsychotroke-grenades-when-are-they-essential/#findComment-2736532 Share on other sites More sharing options...
spartan249 Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 Both of these grenades are essential when making a unit designed for close combat. It confers many bonuses and advantages that help you gain the lead in close combat. I'm currently experimenting with an Inquisitor with both grenades running with 12 Death Cult Assassins, and it's proving to be absolutely devastating to anything I charge. It's quite a doozy, and the grenades have been essential in winning that assault the turn I charge. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228367-radpsychotroke-grenades-when-are-they-essential/#findComment-2736710 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelis Mortis Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 One thing I like is Psykout w/Empryean brain minds. Got a nasty Psyker or Daemon to deal with? Assault him, he goes to Init 1 (Psyk out) and has to pass an Init test(at 1) or just stand there while you make sushi out of him. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228367-radpsychotroke-grenades-when-are-they-essential/#findComment-2736725 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 Rad, Psyco and Blind are amazing, and I would urge you to fit them in whenever, and wherever possible. Rad can't fail like a HH cast, and allows you to ID the T3 races without needing force weapons. Blind are pure win, especially coupled with a GM given counterattack. And while Psycho is random, its effect are brilliant and easily sway the results of an assault. Thier limitation is thier cost, and the difficulty of availability. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228367-radpsychotroke-grenades-when-are-they-essential/#findComment-2736788 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eorek Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 ever since I rolled 6 on the psystroke-table against thraka and a maxxed out unit of those ork melée boys I've been in love with them... thraka ripping apart is own unit was kinda hilarious :tu: (I run a ordo xenos inquisitor in a 9 man purifier unit) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228367-radpsychotroke-grenades-when-are-they-essential/#findComment-2736801 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Valerius Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 ever since I rolled 6 on the psystroke-table against thraka and a maxxed out unit of those ork melée boys I've been in love with them... thraka ripping apart is own unit was kinda hilarious :tu: Fluffy, too! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228367-radpsychotroke-grenades-when-are-they-essential/#findComment-2736810 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 They are by no means essential IMO. G :tu: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228367-radpsychotroke-grenades-when-are-they-essential/#findComment-2736832 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chengar Qordath Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 One thing I like is Psykout w/Empryean brain minds. Got a nasty Psyker or Daemon to deal with? Assault him, he goes to Init 1 (Psyk out) and has to pass an Init test(at 1) or just stand there while you make sushi out of him. Indeed; I've had a fondness for that combo ever since it let me shred a Hive Tyrant in cc. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228367-radpsychotroke-grenades-when-are-they-essential/#findComment-2736864 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmach Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 I feel that you can play without either one of them as well. However they both make the game a lot easier for the unit that has the HQ attached to it, Psychotroke grenades are more hit and miss, great against the hordes in my opinion where as the Rad nades will shine against the more elite armies. I myself have grown very fond of using a grand master with both rad nades and blind nades. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228367-radpsychotroke-grenades-when-are-they-essential/#findComment-2736878 Share on other sites More sharing options...
number6 Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 They're fun, for sure. And can be effective at important moments in a game. But I find myself putting points into other things. They're fun, but never essential. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228367-radpsychotroke-grenades-when-are-they-essential/#findComment-2736977 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 Well, really (depending on mission), apart from your 1 HQ and 2 Troops, *nothing* is essential. :pirate: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228367-radpsychotroke-grenades-when-are-they-essential/#findComment-2737231 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Holy Heretic Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 Rad and blind is just about mandatory in my lists. Psychotroke on the other hand is more along for the fun of it - their chance of having an actual effect on the fight is at best 50-50, but there really is nothing like seeing a bunch of 'stealers or harlequins reduced to I1 :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228367-radpsychotroke-grenades-when-are-they-essential/#findComment-2737349 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr Shepard Posted April 26, 2011 Author Share Posted April 26, 2011 ever since I rolled 6 on the psystroke-table against thraka and a maxxed out unit of those ork melée boys I've been in love with them... thraka ripping apart is own unit was kinda hilarious :) (I run a ordo xenos inquisitor in a 9 man purifier unit) That's a very epic scene... I'm sure you opponent's expression was priceless. Thraka ripping apart is own unit.... the grenads were worth their cost :lol: Well, really (depending on mission), apart from your 1 HQ and 2 Troops, *nothing* is essential. :tu: 1 HQ and 2 Troops are "mandatory" :D unless you are playing Apocalypse I notice most of you find GK grenads collection quite useful.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228367-radpsychotroke-grenades-when-are-they-essential/#findComment-2737391 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 Last two games I used Psycho on; Versus Deldar: Mordrak, 5 Ghosts and a BC were charged by 10 Incubi. The Incubi were reduced to I1 and wiped out to a man. Versus Marines: Lone BC assaulted a unit of Sternguard. The Sternguard got auto hit by the BCs NFS. :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228367-radpsychotroke-grenades-when-are-they-essential/#findComment-2737396 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr Shepard Posted April 26, 2011 Author Share Posted April 26, 2011 Both of these grenades are essential when making a unit designed for close combat. It confers many bonuses and advantages that help you gain the lead in close combat. I'm currently experimenting with an Inquisitor with both grenades running with 12 Death Cult Assassins, and it's proving to be absolutely devastating to anything I charge. It's quite a doozy, and the grenades have been essential in winning that assault the turn I charge. That's a very powerful unit...I wanted to build the same unit but I don't like to field several copies of the Death Cult Assassins. I'll try to use Dark Elves "Witch Elves": they should be fine. Do you have any other idea? Last two games I used Psycho on; Versus Deldar: Mordrak, 5 Ghosts and a BC were charged by 10 Incubi. The Incubi were reduced to I1 and wiped out to a man. Versus Marines: Lone BC assaulted a unit of Sternguard. The Sternguard got auto hit by the BCs NFS. :P One of the best rolls on Psychotroke "table" is 2: you auto hit enemy models and they can make only 1 attack. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228367-radpsychotroke-grenades-when-are-they-essential/#findComment-2737399 Share on other sites More sharing options...
number6 Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 Well, really (depending on mission), apart from your 1 HQ and 2 Troops, *nothing* is essential. ;) :D :tu: Still, worth teasing out a bit. There are a lot of things any decent all-comer's army must be capable of doing. * Present a credible assault threat. * Be capable of blowing apart vehicles. * Have a strong anti-infantry shooting phase as well. * Be capable of taking objectives despite losses. * Be mobile. * Be resilient. * Be redundant. And so on and so forth. What I have so far discovered is that attempting to make balanced, all-comer's army lists just doesn't seem to leave me any points left for grenades. Even the 5 pts or 15 pts for grenades are just "better spent" elsewhere. YMMV, but this is my experience so far. There is always a better place to put points than in grenades. A little disappointing, but also nothing new to 40K. Every codex is loaded with sexy shiny bling ... that few people ever take because you just need So Much Other Basic Stuff. The same holds true for the GK codex so far, as far as I can tell. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228367-radpsychotroke-grenades-when-are-they-essential/#findComment-2737564 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 Couldn't agree more! They are awesome, but limited by thier availblity (HQs or Techmarines) and cost. I too, apart form deliberately making sure I inculded Rad/Blind/Psycho to test them, really just can't fit them into any list I make. But when I do, their impact is noticable! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228367-radpsychotroke-grenades-when-are-they-essential/#findComment-2737584 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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