Brainstorming About the Role of Purifiers

[Joasht]

I have been thinking about them as of late (I do, after all, have to find a use for my old metal halberd GKs, and GKSS halberds are too expensive for my liking), and while I know there are several threads out there about how bad Crowe is, about their weapon options and so on, I'm thinking of opening a slightly modified discussion about them.

 

It has been mentioned in several places that the Purifiers seem to be having a slight parallel to the Sternguard. I myself was totally sold to the idea of Drop Pod-spamming those special bolters when the current CSM came out, but never quite got around to doing it, and it seems apparent that the idea never really seemed to take off elsewhere either as others became enthralled by things like Vulkan, Shrike-Infiltrating-TH/SS Terminators, etc.

 

When the Purifiers rules were first leaked, many, myself included, jumped at the idea of them being pretty awesome. 2A base, with cheap access to I6 Force Weapons and the ability to either become S5 or burninate (heh) the opposing squad with a pre-emptive burst of flame seemed utterly awesome. But as I thought about it myself as well, and perhaps, as many others have realized as well, you would be paying quite abit for such squads - possibly more than one could afford in a not-too-big game (I frequent 1500-1750, as such games force army building decisions instead of a free ticket to take anything you want). If they aren't Troops (i.e. you didn't take Crowe), you do not have many points left after the obligatory HQ, Troops and (IMO fairly compulsory) Psyfle Dreads (two, at least, for redundancy issues. And the army needs ranged weapons).

 

In no way am I saying they are bad, but it opens up the thoughts of how to best utilize them. I've been thinking about these two main roles:

1) MSUs (2 Psycannons, in a Psyback). Not excessively expensive for a fairly killy squad. Turn 1 just move up, disembark and start messing things up. Sounds like a plan, but perhaps best taken en-masse (e.g. three squads of these).

 

2) Big Squad of Doom. This is the one I'm having the most personal conflict with. Purifiers make for good shots - they can take four Psycannons, and makes for a great firing squad, only matched by the Purgation Squad, which unfortunately takes up the very vital HS slot. However, if you go down this route, you are somewhat wasting their two attacks base. If you gear them for melee it is probably best to only take two special guns, and kit the rest out with Halberds and a light sprinkling of Hammers. The problem is the squad becomes very expensive, forcing you to either take them as Troops or scale down significantly on the rest of your army (again, I'm used to 1500-1750, so perhaps to a person who plays 2500 on a regular basis this is no dilemma). It also paints a big fat bullseye on the squad - expect the Rhino to die on turn 1 and the ten of them footslogging the rest of the game :/

 

Now all that said, for those of you who have been using them, how have they fared? What roles have you found best for them?

 

Thanks!

[iamnothere]

Well first things with Purifiers is purpose, what do you want them to do?

 

Assault Squad? No specials, 6 Halberds, 4 hammers & possibly bolts - this squad is assualting so don't lose any of those force weapons!

 

Antihorde? 4 Incinerators - free! SScoot them around in a razorback and have fun fun fun!

 

There are a few more but essentially decide on a role then figure out how they're going to do it. I run 5 in a Stormraven with my libby. 2 Incinerators, 2 Halberds and a hammer. If these guys get out somthing dies quick.

[Joasht]

Well first things with Purifiers is purpose, what do you want them to do?

 

Assault Squad? No specials, 6 Halberds, 4 hammers & possibly bolts - this squad is assualting so don't lose any of those force weapons!

 

Antihorde? 4 Incinerators - free! SScoot them around in a razorback and have fun fun fun!

 

There are a few more but essentially decide on a role then figure out how they're going to do it. I run 5 in a Stormraven with my libby. 2 Incinerators, 2 Halberds and a hammer. If these guys get out somthing dies quick.

Yeah, as I mentioned in my (admittedly slightly long) post I spoke of roles. I personally would prefer Interceptors as anti-horde because those Teleporters give such control over the positioning of the Incinerator, and greater certainty as they don't suddenly lose their movement options if their Rhino was shot out from under them.

 

Your assault squad might work somewhat, but I think four Hammers is severe overkill against many targets, and fact is, you'd usually still need some guns to shoot as you close in.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I find them a lot like the old Deathwatch squad.

 

G :whistling:

[veidin]

I run a Purifier army and it really is based off what you want them to do. First off Crowe is not as bad as people make him seem. I've run him twice and he's sacrificed himself on Lelith once which was worth it after he killed 3 Wyches, and the other game he lived unscathed and ripped through many Necron Warriors. You'd be amazed how many enemies just ignore him since he's a lone model and their shots typically are better off being placed elsewhere. Just keep him behind a tank line or such and he'll close the gap soon enough! Or have a Purifier squad disembark and let him comandeer the transport! :whistling:

 

I typically run 3 Psybacks with 5 Purifers. 1 with a Hammer, 2 cannons and 2 Halberds. I also run 1 more squad in a crusader with a Libby who shrouds the army as needed. Im also a bit unique in that I run a Techmarine with one of the squads as well in a Psyback. It's amazing how much survivability they actually have and horde armies will fear getting into melee due to cleansing flame. (which you can use in both player turns assault phase)

[Abaddonshand]

Personally I'd go for the squad of doom - 10 purifiers, 8 halberds, 2 hammers, in a stormraven. Get across the table as quickly as possible and punch something in the face, hard.

 

I should point out I've never actually used this set up, and don't plan on takin purifiers, but the above seems like fun if I did.

[Marmande]

It's not you only have two choices - either MSU or a full squad. An eight-man squad with 2 hammers, 2 Psycannons and the rest Halberds with Psybolts and a Rhino is only 270pts, 25pts less than a similarly kitted-out Strike Squad while only losing 4 S5 shots but making up for with a vastly better combat potential.

[Angelis Mortis]

Personally I'd go for the squad of doom - 10 purifiers, 8 halberds, 2 hammers, in a stormraven. Get across the table as quickly as possible and punch something in the face, hard.

 

I should point out I've never actually used this set up, and don't plan on takin purifiers, but the above seems like fun if I did.

 

Thats exactly how I'm doing it. Same kit and everything. Aim for the biggest mob if its a horde, or something Juicy rear line if not(like Dev squads or the equivalent).

[Adir]

I am toying with the notion of taking 10 purifiers, 5 halberds, 1 hammer, and 4 psycannons w/HB psybolt razorback.

 

The thought would be to combat squad, mounting 4 halberds + hammer into the razorback and leave the 4 psycannons in cover to shoot.

 

I would also throw a xenos inquisitor with psychotroke and/or rad grenades in the with r/back purifiers.

 

I am wondering whether the inquisitor grenade buffs would be enough to offset the fewer bodies in that squad.

[Ashe Darke]

I am toying with the notion of taking 10 purifiers, 5 halberds, 1 hammer, and 4 psycannons w/HB psybolt razorback.

 

The thought would be to combat squad, mounting 4 halberds + hammer into the razorback and leave the 4 psycannons in cover to shoot.

 

I would also throw a xenos inquisitor with psychotroke and/or rad grenades in the with r/back purifiers.

 

I am wondering whether the inquisitor grenade buffs would be enough to offset the fewer bodies in that squad.

I wrote a Crowe shooty Purifier unit that looks intriguing.

 

Crowe

 

4x

 

10 Purifiers

4 Psycannons

4 Halberds

2 Hammers

1 Master Crafting

1 Psybolt Ammo

1 Rhino + 1 Dozer

 

It's 1502. There's a hell of a lot of dakka although all at 24 inches. I doubt I'll make it but I'd like to play it at least once.

[Centarius E'lin]

Today I had a game 5 of us with 100 points each against a Nid play with 5000 points, I used crowe and 20 Purifiers.

 

10 with: 1x Dh, 4 x Psycannons with Psybolts, 5 Halbards

 

5 with 1x Dh, 2 Psycannons, 2 halbards, Razorback with Psybolts

 

5 with 1x Dh, 2 Psycannons, 2 halbards, Razorback with Psybolts

 

They were ripping the Nids apart, anything that got into range just got wasted, I used Cleansing flame on Termigants (sp) and killed 6 before fighting. Awesome!

 

Only problem I had was some warp anti Psyker power the warriors had that stopped by powers and they ripped the unit of 10 into little silver chunks.... :P Anything we can do against this power? Forgot the name, but it went anything within 12" of the unit makes all Psychic rolls on 3D6. Very nasty.

 

Aparently the Eldar have a version that covers the table from a Farseerer (sp) any thoughts on that cus I love whgat the Purifiers did in the game. :P

[Gentlemanloser]

Vindicare the Farseer.

 

First shot, turbo Penetrate the Falcon. Second, shieldbreak the Wraithbone armour, then mop him up.

 

Don't use Psychic Powers facing the Eldar until he's dead.

[Centarius E'lin]

Sounds good, what about Nids, that have loads to stop you, i'll just shoot them I guess at range.

[Abaddonshand]

Sounds good, what about Nids, that have loads to stop you, i'll just shoot them I guess at range.

 

This isn't a nid power as such, it's an inbuilt ability, called Shadow in the Warp, that all synapse creatures possess. It was much better (and fairer) in the previous codex. It could only be bought on hive tyrants in place of a psychic power, and covered the whole board, but made perils impossible. Essentially, it made things really difficult to pass psychic tests, but at least your psykers didn't die, until the Eldar's Runes of Warding, or indeed the Current shadow in the warp. To be honest I felt table wide but no perils was appropriate, as tyranid invasions tend to tune the warp to static system wide when they occur. This felt fluffy, psykers had a hard time, but the white noise kept the daemons off their backs.

[Something Wycked]

If you're not taking Crowe, then Purifiers are either:

 

1) Purgations who can effectively defend themselves in close combat

2) Foot/Rhino mounted assault troops who can also take special ranged weapons

 

If you are taking Crowe, then Purifiers should be your primary Troop selection to spread Crowe's cost over as many choices as possible, and then you'll want to take Purifiers in several different formats so that they can handle anything the enemy can throw at them.

 

I just had a game with Necrons yesterday and my Purifiers had 4x Psycannons as their only upgrade and they seriously rocked.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Here is what I am planning to run:

 

6x Purifer: 4x NH Halberd & 2x pyscannon - psybolt ammo

Razorback (twin linked heavy bolter): psybolt ammo, warp stabilization field & dozer blades

 

Two of these squads.

 

G ^_^

[jeffersonian000]

I noted that GW seems to have renamed our older units in this edition. Old GKT's are now Paladins, while old GKPA are now Purifiers.

 

When re-doing my old 1500pt GK list to the new Dex, I found it a bit difficult to fit in my older models with the new units (too many special weapons for the number of models in the new units), until it dawned on me that all of 6-man/2-burner PA squads were now elite Purifiers with 2pt halberds and free Incinerators, while my 5-man/1-Psycannon Fast PA squads just became troops!

 

It just makes me think that Purifiers are simply a bone GW threw us oldsters as a way to use older models in newer units.

 

SJ

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Purifiers are expensive, but it's because you're getting insane firepower and insane close-combat ability in the one unit. With Strike squads you get slightly more bodies for the same amount of psycannon, with Terminators you get far less psycannon but improved durability. I run mine like so;

 

Flame Knight w/halberd, Purifier w/hammer, 4 x Purifiers w/halberds, 4 x Purifiers w/psycannons

(295 points)

 

I sometimes take Rhino or twin-las Razorback, depending on point level and opponent. They generally don't need a transport though, advance and fire, then camp once within range of enemy lines and barrage them out of existence. 2-3 squads for redundancy, support with Dreads, Dreadknight and Libby with Terminators (who become Paladins in larger games). Crowe runs at enemy lines waving his arms (I'm currently modelling a banner pole for him with 'SHOOT ME' written on it).

[Centarius E'lin]

It just makes me think that Purifiers are simply a bone GW threw us oldsters as a way to use older models in newer units.

 

SJ

 

That made me laugth :) But a good pont.

 

They want your monies :lol:

[bl00d bath76]

I find them useful as a good all round unit. They arn't super killy. If you want super killy i would strongly recomend a xenos inquisitor with loads of death cult assasins and crusaders. This unit would fill that role much better AND are cheeper at roughly 220 points for and inquisitor and 9 deathcult-assasins/crusaders compared to 266 for a unit of 10 purifiers with 2 hammers and 8 halberds. For that reason i would interpret purifiers as a shooty unit that can deal with themselves in ccb and can counter-charge.

 

I would run units like this.

 

Purifiers x7 =243

psycannon x2

deamonhammer x1

halberd x5

rhino

 

Use the top hatch to fire your psycannons (2 fire points = 2 psycannons) This in itself should help support your other units. However this unit can also charge and deal a lot of pain as well as the deamon hammer causing problems there. All in all treat it like a regular strike squad.

[Oiad]

I noted that GW seems to have renamed our older units in this edition. Old GKT's are now Paladins, while old GKPA are now Purifiers.

 

When re-doing my old 1500pt GK list to the new Dex, I found it a bit difficult to fit in my older models with the new units (too many special weapons for the number of models in the new units), until it dawned on me that all of 6-man/2-burner PA squads were now elite Purifiers with 2pt halberds and free Incinerators, while my 5-man/1-Psycannon Fast PA squads just became troops!

 

It just makes me think that Purifiers are simply a bone GW threw us oldsters as a way to use older models in newer units.

 

SJ

Completely understand the sentiment on Purifiers, though I'm unsure about Paladins. If you knocked that extra wound off and gave them +1S you're pretty much there. Goes to show that for 55pts we're not quite getting out point's worth compared to previous times. Along with the lack of TH/SS combos, it's no wonder that to some they are quickly loosing their lustre.

 

As for tactics, a lot of people love using them as great all-rounders. I like to use them as anti-horde units though. Free incinerators at the ready means fewer points spent along with CF means they're ready either way.

[antique_nova]

I run 10 purifiers with 8 halberds and 2 psycannons in 1750 points. They are the linch pinch of my army - Basically the wrench. They are I6 so no ones' stupid enough to charge them, if they do, then they are rushing right next two units of 10 GKSS with rhinos as well. That isn't a wise move for anyone, bar khornate daemons with blessings of the blood god. The cleansing flame ensures that i will wipe out hordes, but basically i use the purifiers as a back up hammer force - never use them as a leading unit in the army, as they get shot up pretty quickly.

 

Also, i don't tend to rely on cleansing flame, but their halberds and the libbie's might of Titan to wipe out multiple MEQ units at once.

 

But i also have dreadnoughts and a libby to give my rhinos good cover saves.

 

I used to grab a thunder hammer for every close combat unit, but with force weapons and lots of power weapon attacks, i don't really see the need for them anymore as my libby can cast Might of Titan on my guys, but everything in my army can kill AV14 either by shooting or killing, bar my GM - and the psycannon dreads which will take ages to bring down an AV14.

 

thanks

antique_nova

[Joasht]

Thanks for the replies guys.

 

I agree with most of the opinions, particularly that they aren't TOO killy, especially when compared to the DCA. However, as I haven't fieldtested nor played against DCAs, one thing that keeps running through my head is - what do I do with them on turn 1? Do I move them up in a vehicle and disembark, or stay in the vehicle? The problem with disembarking early is there is a risk you won't reach combat on turn 2 with just walking, but the danger of staying in the vehicle is if that vehicle blows up, their terrible armor means you'd lose a significant number of your DCAs to the explosion. Thoughts?

[Ashe Darke]

Thoughts?

Your best bet is target saturation probably.

[Joasht]

Thoughts?

Your best bet is target saturation probably.

By this I assume you mean take a ton of DCAs? Yes thats an option admittedly, but a fairly troublesome one as far as modeling is concerned haha.