Brainstorming About the Role of Purifiers

[Gentlemanloser]

Yup.

 

The PA units just aren't distinct enough from each other. You can see the choice to split Strikes and PTs into Strike/Interceptor units was a hasty one.

 

Personally, if the design was that GKT are the core of the army, then we *should* have had;

 

1 Troop Choice. A Cheaper than 40 point GKT Squad.

 

The only PA unit should have been Interceptors, Purgation Squads should have been TDA again, There's no reason to have them in PA. Give them the Pally 2 for 5 special wepaons, over the GKT 1 for 5.

 

Purifiers should have been slightly increased in cost, to make them closer to the standard GKT, and given AA armour.

 

Done.

 

Then IST could have been our second basic Troop choice and the non GK Inquistion guys would have been happy as well!

[Reclusiarch Darius]

I dunno why they robbed us of Interceptor Troops. It was a dumb decision, because now (unless you have Purifiers made scoring somehow), the core of any Knight army has to be shooty Strike squads. We could've down a pseudo-jump troop army...but I guess that would've been a bit OP and made Blood Angel players feel a bit jealous.

[number6]

the core of any Knight army has to be shooty Strike squads

Or Terminators.

Or a mix of both. B)

 

You can mount your Strike Squads. You can deep strike them. Take enough of them, you can perhaps even footslog them. They're not the limiting anchor on your army that you seem to imply.

 

The further implication is that Strike Squads should have been assault units. Except that GKs -- on the whole -- have never EVER been an assault army, and I for one am glad that inherent nature hasn't changed.

 

Furthermore, the fact that our Troops are inferior in assaults when compared to our Elites -- and even our Fast Attack -- is The Right Design, don't you think? I mean, if Purifiers were to be exactly as they are, and moved to Troops, they wouldn't cost 24 pts a model. They'd be 30 pts a model or more. They're getting a price break because they're Elites. And by extension, the concept that you have to pay a "Crowe tax" to make Purifiers Troops actually has some merit, therefore.

 

Several members are raving about how Paladins costs "only" 15 pts more than normal Terminators yet they get better WS, better weaponry access, and another wound. Again, they're Elites, and if you want them to be Troops, you have to pay a hefty special character tax to make that happen. This is all very much by design. :woot:

 

Part of what people don't realize is that points costs aren't just for what units do; they are also at least partially dependent upon what Force Org slot they occupy. Managing the Force Org chart is integral to the entire game design, so naturally points costs reflect that as well.

[Gentlemanloser]

Of course Number 6.

 

Which is why TGS is just made of pure win. ;)

 

Getting the slot you want *with* the point break for not being a Troop by design. And, really, you're not paying any sort of Crowe/Driago 'tax' (and Drago's isn't a tax, as he's *very* much worth using in his own right, unlike the utterly fail useless Crowe...), as well, you're tkaing a GKGM anyway, aren't you? ;)

 

(Corrollery, unless oyu're playing tiny points values, and using a TDA OM Inq with a Psycannon instead! :P)

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Purifier squads aren't the best psycannon spam per point, Purgation squads are. Even though they pay double for the cannons, they still end up cheaper per unit due to their ability to take 4 psycannons in a 5 man squad

 

I concede not point for point, but in terms of 'actually not dying or doing useful things', Purifiers outshine Purgators with the glow of a thousand suns.

 

Even if the Purgation squad was 10 man to give them some ablative wounds, they still tie with Purifier squads on points cost. The astral aim power can also benefit them in shooting. The downside is they aren't as good at melee and don't have a hero that makes them troops.

 

Yup, and the Purifiers are (I'll say it again) precisely 1,000 times better. Also, for liek 20 points, you can give the Purifiers a hammer and 5 halberds so they rock even harder in close-combat. Questionable though, given that last game, I fielded two squads of quad psycannon Purifiers, and they never used the close-combat upgrades I shelled out for (they shot everything to death that came in reach :D ).

 

you can still make a couple troops via Grand Master). They work best as static firesupport in LOS blocking cover to make use of their astral aim and maximise shot count. A single stationary unit can put out 16 Psycannon shots!.

 

And burn 'Grand Strategy' on such useless units? Heresy! ^_^ Also, 'Astral Aim' is winsauce right up until some killjoy said 'hey guys, that looks like it would make Purgators ACTUALLY GOOD, so lets throw in a completely pointless debuff with a 4+ cover to the enemy'. Again, perhaps its a matter of interpreation, but your points also connect with mine, just in the complete opposite direction. Purgators eat Heavy slots (their biggest crime really), they cost the same Purifiers for equal dakka but are 1,000 times worse.

 

 

@number6 I disagree about only taking 1 incinerator in a Purifier squad. 3 force weapon attacks against an average MEQ opponent = 0.75 wounds (no saves). Incinerators will get at least 4 auto hits each even vs small MEQ units (you can overlap the 2nd+ template to hit the same enemies vs small units) Against MEQ thats 1.11 unsaved wounds per incinerator. against horde armies with alot more hits and no armour sives the amount of wounds gets incanse. The only case where the force weapon is likely to inflict more unsaved wounds is against very heavy infantry units like terminators (large bases and small unit size means less hits per template, combined with 2+ saves = not many unsaved wounds). Therefore if I was taking incinerators in a purifier squad I would always take at least 2. With 10 man squads I would sometimes take more.

 

See, I though the same thing (4 x incinerators seemed suitably evil combined with a charge and 'Cleansing Flame'), but then I realised you only rarely get to use them (or rather, you need Stormraven or Raider). So, quad psycannon (while having the slight downside of actually costing points) works out better, at least for me. You avoid having to take Strikes or Purgators for shooty support, and when the enemy gets you in combat, you cut him apart. I play footslogging lists though (because I'm too lazy to assemble my Rhinos).

[TheDarkOne]

One quick thing to think of...

 

10x Purifiers, 2 hammers, 3 halberds, 4 pairs of falchions, Warding Staff - 301

 

On the Charge thats 9 S4 I6 FW attacks, then 19 S4 I4 FW attacks (or 23 if Falchions actually give +2 attacks), then 6 S8 I1 TH/FW attacks.

 

Not much survives this, especially after a cleansing flame.

 

Put this squad in a Landraider or Stormraven with a Xenos Inquisitor (Rad and Psycho nades) and a Brotherhood Champion... I can't think of anything they wouldn't wipe completely.

 

Champion for re-rolls and hammerhand... now they're S5, and the enemy is -1T thanks to rad grenades, and has probably gone crazy somehow with psychotroke. Purifying flame before combat, and everything dies.

 

The gold is the falchions, 3A base, Possibly 4, makes basically berzerker equivalents, with force weapons, and nasty psychic powers.

 

EGADS!

[number6]

And burn 'Grand Strategy' on such useless units? Heresy! ;) Also, 'Astral Aim' is winsauce right up until some killjoy said 'hey guys, that looks like it would make Purgators ACTUALLY GOOD, so lets throw in a completely pointless debuff with a 4+ cover to the enemy'.

I don't know about you, but just about every time I play 40K, just about everything I shoot at has a 4+ cover save already. Doesn't matter what army I'm playing or facing: everybody gets cover.

 

We play on standard 25% terrained tables with a mix of terrain types, so we're not playing "bizarro" games or anything. People just know how to maximize their cover. If you're usually getting open shots, if most of what you target isn't already benefiting from cover saves, you either need to improve your terrain or your opposition. :lol:

 

The 4+ cover save from Astral Aim is, 90% of the time, meaningless.

[AngelofSorrow]

And burn 'Grand Strategy' on such useless units? Heresy! ;) Also, 'Astral Aim' is winsauce right up until some killjoy said 'hey guys, that looks like it would make Purgators ACTUALLY GOOD, so lets throw in a completely pointless debuff with a 4+ cover to the enemy'.

I don't know about you, but just about every time I play 40K, just about everything I shoot at has a 4+ cover save already. Doesn't matter what army I'm playing or facing: everybody gets cover.

 

We play on standard 25% terrained tables with a mix of terrain types, so we're not playing "bizarro" games or anything. People just know how to maximize their cover. If you're usually getting open shots, if most of what you target isn't already benefiting from cover saves, you either need to improve your terrain or your opposition. :lol:

 

The 4+ cover save from Astral Aim is, 90% of the time, meaningless.

25% huh. We do 33% in my area. So I agree with #6 here giving the cover save is meaningless. However I also agree point for point purifiers are better. The squads are a great catch all. Combat and shooting they both excell in. However I have been running some incinerators and find them useless I always kill them in favor of the storm bolters.

 

The only reason I abstain from the purgation squads is because I'm addicted to my 3 Dreadknights

[Chucku]

I noted that GW seems to have renamed our older units in this edition. Old GKT's are now Paladins, while old GKPA are now Purifiers.

 

When re-doing my old 1500pt GK list to the new Dex, I found it a bit difficult to fit in my older models with the new units (too many special weapons for the number of models in the new units), until it dawned on me that all of 6-man/2-burner PA squads were now elite Purifiers with 2pt halberds and free Incinerators, while my 5-man/1-Psycannon Fast PA squads just became troops!

 

It just makes me think that Purifiers are simply a bone GW threw us oldsters as a way to use older models in newer units.

 

SJ

 

I agree with this. My current list has only Purifiers and Paladins in it...

[Abaddonshand]

I'm beginning to warm to purifiers, I've decided to take a unit instead of a second strike squad (already having a ten man termie unit and ten man strike squad as my 2 troops). Earlier in this thread I said 9 halberds and 1 hammer in a storm raven, but instead I think I'll add in 2 incinerators. Given that they're free, the cheapest source of incinerators in the army, and jumping out of a storm raven they don't really benefit from psycannons, not enough to pay points for anyway. Besides, incinerators suit their theme I think. As such, I'll be going for 7 halberds, 2 incinerators and a hammer on the knight of the flame, piling out of a stormraven with a librarian to assist. The shrouding gives such a survivability to boost to stormravens.

[AngelofSorrow]

I'm beginning to warm to purifiers, I've decided to take a unit instead of a second strike squad (already having a ten man termie unit and ten man strike squad as my 2 troops). Earlier in this thread I said 9 halberds and 1 hammer in a storm raven, but instead I think I'll add in 2 incinerators. Given that they're free, the cheapest source of incinerators in the army, and jumping out of a storm raven they don't really benefit from psycannons, not enough to pay points for anyway. Besides, incinerators suit their theme I think. As such, I'll be going for 7 halberds, 2 incinerators and a hammer on the knight of the flame, piling out of a stormraven with a librarian to assist. The shrouding gives such a survivability to boost to stormravens.

Put the hammer on a standard purifier because the first perils you suffer your hammer is gone.