teemoki Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 Hello brother BAs! Appreciating all the help I've been getting from everyone here. From when I was but a new 40k player you guys took me under your wings when the people at my LFGS just disregarded my interest in the game because I was a girl and a magic player >_> I have yet another predicament that I need help on. Razorback turrets! First my current evil Mech list :whistling: Mephiston + Furioso + Stormraven 2-3+ RAS RB w/ Turret (These are the things I'm trying to figure out) 3 TL Asc/HB Baal Predators 2 AC/Las Sponson Heavy Predators So I like the TL Assault Cannons the most but they are quite short range for how close I want my RBs...I don't really want them that close to my opponent. Pretty much because a lot of their guns will have 24" range and a lot of CC things can get to me... Which leads me to the question..TL las cannons or Las/TL Plas turret? I like Las/Plas because it takes 2 weapon destroyed. 1 Weapon Destroyed = the tank is still deadly. However TL Las is more reliable anti-tank and I can move 12" and fire it's weapon the side with a TL BS4 which is much more reliable. Moving 12" and firing just a NON-TL las from the las/plas turret seems a little weaker. Also to fire both I'd need to move 6" which limits the speed. However I don't know if its worth it because of the more pros the las/plas has... What do you guys think? TL Las or Las/TL Plas for my Razorbacks? ^__^ Thanks! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228373-which-turret-of-these-2-for-a-razorback/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corby Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 Well a plasma gun also has a 24" range and you said you don't really want to move close to your opponent so you're loosing out on the twin-linked plasmagun really. Twinlinked Las would be better if you prefer to remain at range and retain reliable shooting Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228373-which-turret-of-these-2-for-a-razorback/#findComment-2736621 Share on other sites More sharing options...
1Drop Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 Las/plas.. The original and the best. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228373-which-turret-of-these-2-for-a-razorback/#findComment-2736629 Share on other sites More sharing options...
teemoki Posted April 25, 2011 Author Share Posted April 25, 2011 Las/plas.. The original and the best. Lol! Why is it the best and original o_O? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228373-which-turret-of-these-2-for-a-razorback/#findComment-2736648 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demoulius Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 i think hes refering to the fact that its like a Mk.1 weapon config. As its "only been recently been rediscovered" we never had it in previous codexi :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228373-which-turret-of-these-2-for-a-razorback/#findComment-2736651 Share on other sites More sharing options...
teemoki Posted April 25, 2011 Author Share Posted April 25, 2011 i think hes refering to the fact that its like a Mk.1 weapon config. As its "only been recently been rediscovered" we never had it in previous codexi :P Oooh. >_< New player here! Don't understand that >_> Sooo...back on topic :lol: 1 for las so far and 1 for las plas. I like the explanation for TL Las. Can you please explain why if you give a choice. It'd be helpful so I can understand my army better and why I'm using certain wargear over others... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228373-which-turret-of-these-2-for-a-razorback/#findComment-2736701 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenocidal Maniac Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 All the "tournament builds" I see out there run Las / Plas Razors. So, if you want to be a proper tournament player, I suppose they are de rigeur. I am not sure that I am sold on them being the best option, but, I also don't think you can really go wrong with them. It can potentially be 3 dead marines, if nothing else, and it does pack some anti-armor punch. I think its only downside is that it lacks the focus of the other weapons. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228373-which-turret-of-these-2-for-a-razorback/#findComment-2736718 Share on other sites More sharing options...
sp4rky Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 Can I ask why you don't want your razorbacks closer than 24"? How do your assault squads get from the tank to the enemy? If you're worried about the enemy assaulting your razors then they should be worried about your assault squads getting out and assaulting them right back! I currently run 2 assault cannon razorbacks because the 4 shots help soften up any enemies my assault squads are about to charge. Also in your build you already have 2 Predators each with 2 Lascannon shots and 2 auto cannon shots (it's heavy 2, right?). How many points are you making a list for? You could find that just giving your razorbacks the standard heavy bolter turret will leave you with vital points to ut upgrades in other places :-) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228373-which-turret-of-these-2-for-a-razorback/#findComment-2736742 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybnick Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 This is a choice I struggled with when I first started in with my BA as well. Initially I was convinced that the TL Lascannon was the strongest choice, but having played more games I don't think that is necesarily true. Looking at the options you mentioned the Assault cannon is a wonderfuly versatile and deadly gun which the BA are fortunate enough to be able to field enmasse, Lascannons are extremely effective at wiping out enemy armor and having them TL'd is icing on the cake, and plasma guns make a mockery of any infantry/heavy infantry's armor saves (once again TL making it even better). Thankfully BA's also enjoy fast vehicles, so as long as your moving 12" a turn you don't really need to fear assaults against your vehicles too much (as 6's to hit and generally 6's to penetrate is pretty tough).What is more of a concern is getting up close into melta range, as long as they can survive shooting then for the most part you should be good. Assuming your withing that 24" effective zone for Plasma Guns and Assault Cannons. It's hard to say which of these options would work "best" in your army because they all bring something useful to what you've already got. SO since we've established that they are all viable options let's look at which one is the most versatile option. Assault Cannon - Range 24", S6 (rending), 4 TL'd shots - Perfectly capable of popping any AV on the table, and not bad at wiping up infantry as well. TL Plasma/Lascannon - Range 24" (rapid Fire) and 48", S7 and S9, 2TL Plasma Shots 1 Lascannon - Capable of sitting back with your Predators and shooting only the Lascannon or get closer to the action and rapid fire plasma into all those demech'd enemies. TL Lascannon - Range 48", S9, 2 TL shots - Happy to sit back and pump out those accurate Lascannon shots, preferably moving 12" to hit side armor when apropriate. If it were me I think I'd go with the TL Plasma/Lascannon because it is so versatile. As fire support in back field or up close and personal where it's Plasma guns (and embarked units) can be most effective. That being said what's to stop you from bringing a couple different turrets for variety's sake. Maybe 2 Assault Cannon turrets and a TL Lascannon (or any combination really). It all bouild down to how you want to play your army. Hopefully this didn't turn out to be TL:DR, but looking back it is a tad long. At any rate I hope that it was marginally useful to someone! :whistling: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228373-which-turret-of-these-2-for-a-razorback/#findComment-2736752 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gv0zD Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 Heavy Flamers. Free stuff. Burns to death. What else do you need? :whistling: Seriously though, I prefer either Heavy Bolters or Flamers as they don't increase the RB's cost, so I can spend the points elsewhere, and are decent weapons as well. Any way it depends on your likely opponent. I doubt you'll find Las/Plas useful vs hordes of nidz. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228373-which-turret-of-these-2-for-a-razorback/#findComment-2736758 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenocidal Maniac Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 Heavy Flamers. Free stuff. Burns to death. What else do you need? ;)Seriously though, I prefer either Heavy Bolters or Flamers as they don't increase the RB's cost, so I can spend the points elsewhere, and are decent weapons as well. Any way it depends on your likely opponent. I doubt you'll find Las/Plas useful vs hordes of nidz. People have been bringing up "hordes of nids" in this kind of thread for well over a decade now, but, how often do you see these hordes of nids at a tournament? Almost never. And, in any case, does a marine player really need to worry about hordes of nids? They don't do anything but tie stuff up. 5 Blood Angels > 30 Gaunts any day. The current tournament meta doesn't suggest that TLHF are a competitive choice. I do have a TLHF Razor myself, but I am not a tournament player. I just like the idea of my Flesh Tearers burning stuff to death! :tu: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228373-which-turret-of-these-2-for-a-razorback/#findComment-2736826 Share on other sites More sharing options...
1Drop Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 I run with las/plas but my brother does have a nid army so when I face him I'll just say 'yo little bro, those are heavy flamer now, you cool with that' and he'll probably say yes, lol. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228373-which-turret-of-these-2-for-a-razorback/#findComment-2736842 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ebsolom Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 Personally I prefer amassing as many Assault Cannons into my list as possible, they are everywhere :tu: ... Landraiders, Stormravens, Baals, Razorbacks, Speeders etc and as Rybnick pointed out capable of dealing with any AV on the table bar Monoliths. I've nicknamed one of my Baals the "Red Baron" after destroying TWO LR's in one game ^_^. Plus it can soften up infantry prior to assaults. It boils down to personal preference really and your style of play as all options have their pros and cons. PS. The TLLC only provides one shot per turn albeit re-rollable, I think I saw someone mention it was two TL shots per turn. Good luck :lol: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228373-which-turret-of-these-2-for-a-razorback/#findComment-2736921 Share on other sites More sharing options...
teemoki Posted April 26, 2011 Author Share Posted April 26, 2011 Ya I noticed that error too. I think they did it by mistake. @question about not being closer than 24" I don't want to be in assault range and don't want to be driving up my guys because I am only a 5 man RAS squad. That isn't enough to do really anything to any regular CC unit. Even as someone said above, 5 Assault Marines are not afraid of 30 Termagants. Normally those Termagants are accompanied by a Tervigon and with that...it's pretty scary. Especially if they put FNP on the Termagants. Most of the time 5 man RAS in a RB aren't decked out with Power Fists or Power Weapons and they generally only carry 1 melta. Soooo...I think 5 Assault Squad guys the way I have them decked out at least are hardly a threat to anyone. So i want them back, camping objectives near my base, taking side shots as far as possible and not giving up KP if the opponent takes out the vehicle. @Assault Cannons Idea They are my favorite turret. However like stated above I want to try staying out of 24" because I have no true counter assault unit. I have fairly weak 5 man squads of assault marines that are there for fast, armored vehicle riding, cheap effective weapon RB, objective taking purposes. This brings up another question...Should I have a counter CC unit? Is this Mandatory and normally taken in lists like the one I have above? I kind of have one in that I have Mephiston... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228373-which-turret-of-these-2-for-a-razorback/#findComment-2736982 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 Assault Cannon are statistically superior to every other load out you could care to name up to 24". And with your long ranged Predators covering the back field, mid ranged Razorbacks sitting at 18" range so that you can move up and support any point on your front line with the RAS inside the Razorbacks would be most beneficial to your list. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228373-which-turret-of-these-2-for-a-razorback/#findComment-2736992 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SevenExxes Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 Why does your RAS lack a priest? FNP yo! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228373-which-turret-of-these-2-for-a-razorback/#findComment-2737217 Share on other sites More sharing options...
knife&fork Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 Assault Cannon are statistically superior to every other load out you could care to name up to 24". Not exactly. I depends on what you're shooting at and how close you are. It's a good general purpose load out though, as long as you're aware that it will likely make your transports priority targets. Not something I think is good considering how vital they are for the squad that depends on them for mobility. With TL LC and las/plas you can stand off and do damage from a distance. S9 is also instant death for any T4 multi wound models, which could be good depending on your opposition. Removing one model completely can sometimes be better than 2-3 wounds spread out over the unit. TL HB (plus a storm bolter) is ok anti light/medium infantry with longer range, 20 points less than the TL AC and much less likely to be seen as a threat on its own. TL HB will not do much against MEQ but is just as deadly against T3 4+ units, a pretty common combination. TL HF can be deadly, even for MEQ. Extremely short range though, the template is what, 7 inches? Your opponent might ignore these due to the short range but with all our rhino hulls being fast he'll might be in for a nasty surprise. Slap a HK missile on it for some turn one AT fire. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228373-which-turret-of-these-2-for-a-razorback/#findComment-2737337 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anarchyman99 Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 Las/Plas +1 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228373-which-turret-of-these-2-for-a-razorback/#findComment-2737435 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 With.... a StormRaven full of death, 2 Predators which should be moving 6" and putting out 3 shots every turn and 3 Baal prdators, those Razorbacks will not reach the top of the target priority list until Turn 3 at the earliest. Which should mean 8-12 Twin Linked Rending S6 shots each before then. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228373-which-turret-of-these-2-for-a-razorback/#findComment-2737500 Share on other sites More sharing options...
knife&fork Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 With.... a StormRaven full of death, 2 Predators which should be moving 6" and putting out 3 shots every turn and 3 Baal prdators, those Razorbacks will not reach the top of the target priority list until Turn 3 at the earliest. Which should mean 8-12 Twin Linked Rending S6 shots each before then. That was more in general and not in the context of her list, which as you point out has pretty good target saturation. On the other hand it has a lot of points (and firepower) tied up in very few models. It's no doubt deadly, specially if you get first turn. But with only two minimal troop choices they might very well become priority targets early on against an opponent who can deal with armor. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228373-which-turret-of-these-2-for-a-razorback/#findComment-2737535 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHarrower Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 Definitely Laz/plas. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228373-which-turret-of-these-2-for-a-razorback/#findComment-2737581 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glendor Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 Las/plas does wonders versus nids were you can take a montrous creature out per turn easily with 3 of them in rapid fire range. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228373-which-turret-of-these-2-for-a-razorback/#findComment-2738121 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nathan Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 las/tl plas. if the enemy is far away it can only get hit by the las. as it gets closer it then gets the tl plas too, it keeps getting closer it then gets another tl plas shot. that might be enough to make something stay away for long enough. so i thik surrendering a reroll to gain a far more useable addition to the veichle seems a worthy option... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228373-which-turret-of-these-2-for-a-razorback/#findComment-2738125 Share on other sites More sharing options...
1Drop Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 Yeah, I'm all for the las/plas, all my RB's will be las/plas when I get round to building them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228373-which-turret-of-these-2-for-a-razorback/#findComment-2738133 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thornoo1 Posted April 27, 2011 Share Posted April 27, 2011 I've just recently switched. I was all for the love of TL Assault Cannons laying down a whole lot of fire but I was struggling for longer range antitank/anti TEQ killing ability. I've just switched to the Laz/Plas combo and it really rocks the house. You've got yourself a really decent tank hunter that can easily get to side armour and when it gets up close and personal 3 shots capable of killing TEQ really hits the spot. Have I really used the word 'really' enough to make my point? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228373-which-turret-of-these-2-for-a-razorback/#findComment-2738222 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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