Which turret of these 2 for a razorback?

[liberate_tutame]

I have to agree with Thornoo1. I love TL Assault Cannons, looks great, feels great, but las/plas is just the superior choice. AP 2 is huge, and the 48" range of the Lascannon means you will always be able to reach out and touch something.

[SamaNagol]

You are giving up considerable maneuverability for those shots though. It's situational usefulness in very specific circumstances.

 

You'll find that you have a far superior chance of popping Armour of any value with the TL Assault Cannon of anything within a 36" threat radius. And to be honest if you are close enough to Terminators to be Rapid Firing a Plasma Gun, you are most likely dead next turn. For ganking Terminators I'd much rather be using the Vindicators I run. Not to mention Plasma Guns have their effectiveness greatly reduced against Terminators carrying Storm Shields, which most are these days. Grey Knights not included of course.

 

It is entirely dependent on what list you run, but I don't see any reason for a Mech BA list needing long ranged shooting. It's not like anyone can run away from Fast vehicles, nor does sitting across the table do much to help you when Missile Launchers will open you up just as easily from 12 inches away as they will from your own table edge. Putting Assault Marines in a tank and having it sit far off isn't an effective use of points for me. Even Objective camping is not much of an issue when your transports all move 18" Flat Out.

 

I've always found sitting between that 36" and 18" range to be perfect for my Mech lists. I can outmaneuver nearly everyone else and bring overwhelming force to bear at weak points. And the Assault Cannon has always given me the most synergy with that approach.

 

Obviously go with what works for you. The best idea would be to just try out different turret load outs as 'counts as' proxies in some games and see what works best for you.

[captain Angel]

I prefer the assault cannons, but that is just me.

 

I will be magnetizing my razors so that i can field them however i want.

[teemoki]

Soooo...an overwhelming amount of people are suggesting Las/TL Plas or TL Assault Cannons. No one is really suggesting TL Las...so am is it pretty much safe to say that it's ok to convert all my TL Las Cannon turrets to Las/TL Plas? I have custom TL Assault Cannons already and one of the big reasons for this thread was to see also if a majority of people suggest Las/TLPlas over TL Las which it seems so heheh ^__^;

 

After that I guess I can start play testing but I think a majority of people are leaning me over to Las/TL Plas. If I get 4 Razorbacks to fit I might go 2:2 split between AsC and Las/Plas...variety and give me a little bit of forward momentum with the AsC.

 

@SamaNagol: I don't have any counter CC in my list (thinking of replacing Meph with a librarian or 2) so I don't really want to be in close range with anyone. >___>

[SamaNagol]

18" isn't assault threat range. And you NEED to be in close range to get the most out of your Plasma Guns

[teemoki]

Hmm, good point but a lot of things I'm normally scared of come in assault vehicles.

 

CC oriented DE coming out of their open topped transports

BW's going 13", disembarking 2", possibly WAAGHing 6" and assault 6", even without WAAGH it's really far

LR moving 12", disembarking 2", assaulting 6"

Stormravens moving 12", disembaring 2", assaulting 6"

 

A lot of things that want to get into CC does have 18"+ threat ranges usually >_>

 

As my list shows (minus Meph) I have no real good CC, counter CC, hammer type unit. Awkward I know since we are a Marine chapter known for good CC....

 

I'm not trying to say I am not moving towards going Assault Cannons. (They were actually my first choice till I noticed so much Las/TL Plas everywhere) I'm just giving push back so I can understand your reasoning and my reasonings a little better. I'm not being thick-headed or trying to be rude ^____^;

[Zagman]

Like the look of the list Teemoki, and I figured it was about time I chimed in.

 

People have not really mentioned that BA are FAST vehicles. This is a huge advantage for both the TLAC and LasPlas setups. Being FAST is the only thing which makes the LasPlas setup viable. Also, cost has yet to be mentioned. Obviously if you are lacking in points, a TLHF or TLHB are a solid options.

 

Personally, I am a huge fan of the Assault Cannon. I find it to be the most powerful general use weapon available to marines. The ability to move 12" and fire 4 shots capable of penetrating a LR is extremely viable. Against all armor values(Exception: Monolith) the Assault cannon is superior to the LasPlas set up between 12-24". Obviously the LasPlas is superior at ranges over 24", but this isn't really a concern since you have an effective 36" range with being a FAST vehicle. Against most infantry the Assault cannon is better outside of 12".

 

The biggest question is what do you want your razorback to accomplish? A versatile mobile weapons platform capable of outmaneuvering the enemy and capable of handling a variety of enemies.

 

The Assault Cannon Razorback is the option.

 

The LasPlas cannot move 12" and retain its effectiveness. It also excels when within 12", which is a situation you are attempting to avoid.

 

I vote Assault Cannon or potentially an equal split.

[Xenocidal Maniac]

Like the look of the list Teemoki, and I figured it was about time I chimed in.

 

People have not really mentioned that BA are FAST vehicles. This is a huge advantage for both the TLAC and LasPlas setups. Being FAST is the only thing which makes the LasPlas setup viable. Also, cost has yet to be mentioned. Obviously if you are lacking in points, a TLHF or TLHB are a solid options.

 

Personally, I am a huge fan of the Assault Cannon. I find it to be the most powerful general use weapon available to marines. The ability to move 12" and fire 4 shots capable of penetrating a LR is extremely viable. Against all armor values(Exception: Monolith) the Assault cannon is superior to the LasPlas set up between 12-24". Obviously the LasPlas is superior at ranges over 24", but this isn't really a concern since you have an effective 36" range with being a FAST vehicle. Against most infantry the Assault cannon is better outside of 12".

 

The biggest question is what do you want your razorback to accomplish? A versatile mobile weapons platform capable of outmaneuvering the enemy and capable of handling a variety of enemies.

 

The Assault Cannon Razorback is the option.

 

The LasPlas cannot move 12" and retain its effectiveness. It also excels when within 12", which is a situation you are attempting to avoid.

 

I vote Assault Cannon or potentially an equal split.

 

You know, I intuitively understood all of this, but thanks for articulating it so well. I agree. I personally think people have gone all las / plas because they read somewhere on the internet it was "the best" or they saw it in a tournament winning list or something. But I think TLAC is actually probably better, for all of the reasons Zagman points out.

[teemoki]

Hmm thanks Zag :D I like the explanation of both. Assault Cannons are my favorite but I think I'm going to try a split for now to see how it works out. Might work out since it'd be nice to keep 1 or 2 RBs back for home objective and still be doing something .__.

 

Here is a link to my latest army list too. It will probably be my final list before I start testing it a lot for a tournament in 2 months.. o_o

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...howtopic=228485

[Zagman]

Hmm thanks Zag :( I like the explanation of both. Assault Cannons are my favorite but I think I'm going to try a split for now to see how it works out. Might work out since it'd be nice to keep 1 or 2 RBs back for home objective and still be doing something .__.

 

Here is a link to my latest army list too. It will probably be my final list before I start testing it a lot for a tournament in 2 months.. o_o

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...howtopic=228485

 

Glad I could help.

 

If you are keeping them in the backfield, then run two TLAC and two TLLC razorbacks.

[SamaNagol]

Again, the TLAC is superior against every type of Assaut vehicle you may face. Weight of fire against open topped DEldar Raiders, or 4 TL Rending shots against AV14 Land Raiders are both the prime option.

 

And against assault units like Thunder Hammer Terminators or Ork Nobz... you can move 12" every turn whilst still pumping out those 4 shots and force your opponent to need 6s to hit you in combat should he reach you.

 

At which points your Vindicators can roll up 12" and drop St10 AP2 Pie Plates on their head.

[1Drop]

I just bought two RB's and some scouts today... Las/plas all the way for my RB's although I am getting another two and I think I may deck one with TL asscan and one heavy flamer cos I love burning bugs!!

 

Can't wait to get my first scout squad up and running too, more scoring units, love it, ha,ha.

[drummer mather]

Rule of cool wins for me, not a tourney player i guess. Twin Linked Assualt Cannons because there awesome and they can rumble anything they can reach. :tu: