Bait and Switch

[Montuhotep]

I have my devious face on again. Rhino and Land Raiders this time.

 

It's not mentioned as mandatory, but people want to mark up Death Company transports as DC vehicles - black paint, skulls, red saltires and all. And this is only right and proper.

Would you give this paintjob to something hard - i.e Land Raider - to make sure that your normal paintjob'ed Rhino (actually toting the DC) survived a bit longer due to everyone wanting to take the LR on the assumption of the DC cargo?

Or am I being sneaky and underhanded again? Might win you the game but might not win you many friends, although there's nothing to force you to paint either which way.

[Brightguy]

Not sure if I'm following. You need to disclose what is in what transport. Your opponent can always be confused, forget or conditioned to shoot black things first, but misrepresenting this is cheating.

[AGPO]

Well, the only place I can see people wanting to try this tactic is in competitive play, i.e. tournaments. This tactic will run you into trouble for two reasons - a) you'll lose sporting opponent points, which are present in pretty much every tournament I've seen. :tu: lots of events these days also award marks for the 'theme' of your army, and give extra points for making each squad look cohesive and part of a wider themed force, as opposed to a hotch-potch of models from a collection. Things like squa markings etc are taken into account for this. I'd say painting a non-DC unit in DC colours with no intention of using it in a connected role would mean you lose out on both fronts. It would however be a perfectly acceptable trick in real life, indeed many historical forces have played identity tricks, so from a gaming perspective I'd have no issue with it.

 

As a matter of courtesy I'd always inform my opponent of which squad is in which transport, and I paint the same markings on a squad and their dedicated ride. That said, it all depends on the attitude of your opponents. I've seen groups where the most devious of moves is known as 'gamesmanship' whilst in another environment it would be seen as blatantly unsporting. By the same notion, some groups play to strict RAW and some to RAI. It depends on your view of meta really.

[vharing]

At that club I play at we put one squad member (usually the sarge) on the roof of the transport to mark both that the squad is in the transport and what squad is in the transport. I would have to agree with AGPO, you will likely loss sportmanship points for stuff like that.

[Redo]

Just a despisable tactic. If used against me if wouldn't pack up but I would not be in a hurry to play against them again. This game is meant to be fun and part of fun is fair.

[jma037]

Wouldn't it be easier if you painted everying black?

[Lanfear]

the rulebook doesnt state that a player have to tell his opponent anything about his army. AFTER the battle, he has to show the army list to his opponent, but not before, or while the game lasts. the rulebook is clear in that part.

 

In my gaming round, we have the rule, that you have to name the part of the force organisation the unit in the transport is belonging to. if i place 2 razorbacks with RAS and one Landraider with DC, all i have to tell you that all 3 transports carry standard troop choices. its easy, open the transport, and you will see whats in it :pirate:

[d503]

make sure you write it on your army list.

 

It's a dirty tactic though.

[1Drop]

What is 'RAW' and 'RAI'? (sorry for yet another noobish question, lol)

[Capt.blood]

Rules As Written, and Rules As Intended. Basically the foundation argument for any really good rules lawyer's argument.

 

And to the OP, I don't really see a problem with it. You can paint yer models however you want.

[Tamwulf]

I realize subterfuge is like Sun Tzu's #1 rule when it comes to waging Warfare, but it has little to no place in 40K (or just about any wargame). Not sharing information with your opponent or purposely misleading them is tantamount to cheating.

[Grizzly Adams]

the rulebook doesnt state that a player have to tell his opponent anything about his army. AFTER the battle, he has to show the army list to his opponent, but not before, or while the game lasts. the rulebook is clear in that part.

 

In my gaming round, we have the rule, that you have to name the part of the force organisation the unit in the transport is belonging to. if i place 2 razorbacks with RAS and one Landraider with DC, all i have to tell you that all 3 transports carry standard troop choices. its easy, open the transport, and you will see whats in it <_<

 

are you sure on that? I was pretty sure that you had to tell people what was in each transport, 4th/3rd you didnt, but i was pretty sure that the BBoR said you did, but in class, so don't have the rules in front of me. Either way, at the tournaments i go to, it is required to share what is in each transport, otherwise how do you know that your opponent isnt just switching the squad in a transport on the fly for his own gains?

 

As for the OP, like others have said, it is not against the rules to paint your army however you want, and as long as you let your opponent know what is actually in where before the game, no problems rules wise. But no matter how you do it, you are attempting to deceive your opponent on some level. A game of 40k is a gentleman's agreement, and no matter how competitive a situation, I try to show a certain level of respect for my opponent and the game itself. If someone tried to pull that over on me, i would play the game, but I definitely am not going to be rushing to run out another game with them.

[Rybnick]

I don't think there is any problem with painting up a LR black to signify death company and then putting assault marines in it so long as if your opponent asks you tell him what is inside the transport. I know technically you don't have to inform them once the game starts but it's rather poor sportsmanship to try and trick them into thinking your DC is inside a LR whenever they are actually hiding in a Rhino behind the LR. If I asked what unit was in what transport I'd expect an answer and I wouldn't hesitate to answer any question they asked me either.

[shatter]

You gotta reveal contents at reserve and deployment phases. It's in the book.

[BOBMAKENZIE]

You gotta reveal contents at reserve and deployment phases. It's in the book.

 

This they specifically state the list is back or forth but transports need to be explained. Heres the quote.

 

"A Note on secrecy

 

to keep things fair, you should always allow your opponent to read your force roster after a game. In the same spirit, always make clear to your opponent which squads are embarked in which transport vehicle. However, before starting to deploy their armies, it is a good idea for players to agree whether or not they can read the opponents force roster before and during the game. Some players prefer full disclosure (which is the norm in tournaments, for example), as they want to concentrate on outmanoeuvring the enemy rather than springing a secret trump card on them. Others prefer to leave a feel of secrecy around their lists, as bluffing can make a game really entertaining. The choice is yours!" pg 92

[Montuhotep]

Not sharing information with your opponent or purposely misleading them is tantamount to cheating.

That was my view as well, I was asking because someone I game with pulled this little trick on me and I was none too impressed.

[koran]

I have always played that you dont have to show your opponent your list but if anyone asks what is in a transport they have to answer honestly.

 

With this in mind, if someone did this to me and I hadnt asked what was in the transport before I shot it I would count that as my own mistake and probably had a laugh with my opponent about it. Basically its something I would ever try (mostly because I like my armies to have some background to them and I think this would ruin it) but I think its all fair game.

 

The only things that should be disclosed without being asked in my book (ie. without being asked) is anything that is counting as something else.

[Sanguinarian]

I think it's cowardly not to put a unit in their respective transport, especially DC which always ride in their distinctively black with red saltired transports. Space Marines in general do not believe in camo - with the exception of the Badab Wars participants IIRC - and they DEFINITELY do not believe in "hiding" in the wrong vehicle. I can see them re-embarking into a new ride if theirs were cratered, but "hiding" in a red ride is NOT the DC way!!! Nor should or would any other non-raging unit ever want to ride in a DC ride - it would wreak of insanity and probably wouldn't have the finer luxuries that a standard BA ride would have ala live classical music, wine, fruit and cheese trays - lots and lots of cheese for the most dominant SM Chapter in the universes!!! :)

 

The most common way to prevent units magically appearing in different vehicles is to always have the squad leader and/or ICs/SCs ride the top. And I put a Duracell battery on their shoulders and "Dare you to knock it off!" ;)

[Smurfalypse]

I understand it is a game, but its also a war-game and personally if it is 100% within the rules, then it is open game and i would have zero problem with it. Point of fact, my group had always disclosed what was in each transport but now with how it is, it will be far far more fun to not know whats in one of the 7 ork trukks (holy crap where are the burna's??) Far more fun IMO.

 

Just my two cents.

[Grimtooth]

Only have to make clear which squad is embarked in which transport per the rules. Note, that is make clear which squad, not the squad composition.

 

So,

 

"Death Company." is perfectly fine.

 

"Death Company with 2 thunder hammers, four infernus pistols, and a partridge in a pear tree." is not needed and just giving your opponent tactical information.