Henchman Warband

[Rabidwolf7]

I need help deciding on how to kit out my Inquisitor's warband, I mainly play against elite armies such as Space Marines, my ideas are:

 

Inquisitorial Chimera

4 Arco-Flagellants/ 4 Death Cult Assassins/ 2 Arco-Flagellants and 2 Death Cult Assassins

The rest of the squad being made up of Warrior Acolytes with Storm Bolters and Carapace armour

 

Would you say any other models would be useful against Space Marines?

 

I think Jokaero's are too expensive for what they will do for the squad

I'm not fighting Daemons so Banishers aren't useful

Maybe Crusaders... what do you think?

Daemonhosts???

Servitors, possibly...

I think you would need to take too many Psykers to make their power useful

[Freman Bloodglaive]

The main thing that an assault unit has to provide is a mix of survivability and damage potential.

 

In the henchmen the most survivable unit is the Crusader, and the greatest damage potential comes from the Death Cult Assassins. The ideal assault unit then combines those two units with an Inquisitor to boost their strength with hammerhand. I might be inclined to add a couple of banishers with eviscerators, not because of the daemon re-rolls, but because hammerhand+eviscerator means that they can deal with dreadnoughts and the like if a miscalculation places them in combat with one.

 

So for me, assuming a Chimera transport (not ideal due to the lack of an assault ramp, but cheap firepower in a henchman army). 11 men total. 5 Crusaders, 4 Death Cult Assassins, 2 Banishers with eviscerators. I would lead them with a Ordo Xenos Inquisitor, hammerhand, power armour, rad and psychotroke grenades. Total, 343 points including Chimera.

 

I wouldn't say it was perfect, but it's among the best assault units available to Grey Knights. With hammerhand that's 16, WS5 S5 I6 power weapon attacks, followed by 4 WS4 S4 I4 attacks followed by 10 WS 4 S4 I3 power weapon attacks, followed by 4 WS3 S8 I1 power weapon attacks that roll 2D6 for armour penetration. All that on a unit that has had its toughness reduced by 1 and may be suffering after a hallucinogenic high.

 

It may actually be a bad squad because it'll probably destroy most units on the charge leaving the squad exposed to extreme counter measures.

[Hfran Morkai]

I'd take Warrior Acolytes with Hotshot Lasguns and Carapace, so Storm Troopers in essence

[Freman Bloodglaive]

I would always take storm bolters over hot shot las. Run the numbers and against anything except Space Marines the storm bolters are better, and throw in cover and the storm bolters come to the top again. I'll even count-as any lasguns in my army as storm bolters. 84 points gets you 24 bolter shots at 24 inches, on the move.

 

Rapid fire weapons should never be taken in an assault squad. You lose the ability to charge, which is what you really want.

[Hfran Morkai]

I would always take storm bolters over hot shot las. Run the numbers and against anything except Space Marines the storm bolters are better, and throw in cover and the storm bolters come to the top again. I'll even count-as any lasguns in my army as storm bolters. 84 points gets you 24 bolter shots at 24 inches, on the move.

 

Rapid fire weapons should never be taken in an assault squad. You lose the ability to charge, which is what you really want.

 

Aye, but the OP states he plays mainly marines. It doesn't feel right in my mind having large numbers of unaugmented humans using something typically reserved for Astartes. I should have also made the point clear that I'd be tempted to take a shooting unit mainly consisting of these "Storm Troopers"

[uberschveinen]

Why does it feel wrong? These are Inquisitorial Stormtroopers; the best raw-human soldiers the Imperium can produce, backed by an orginatisation whose resources are effectively indefinite, and whose tasks are suicidal at the best and which will leave worlds burning if failed. Them getting the best equipment the Imperium can mass-produce is a given. I can see you not wanting the Hotshot Lasguns, because they're not pointsworthy, but they're actually a lot harder to make than a Bolter so the fluff backing's not really there. If you don't want Stoirm Bolters for personal reasons, they don't take them, but at least go Bolters. One point for extra strength and AP is a gimme, and with Bolters you're easier to get in Plasma's firing range.

 

I use a few units in my Coteaz lists. Keep in mind these are designed differently to the specialised Henchmen a Grey Knight player will take.

 

My basic infantry unit is the Killteam, six Acolutes with Carapace, three with Plasma, three with Storm Bolters, and six Psykers, all tucked into a Chimera, which seems to me to be the most effective multi-role unit in the Henchmen list. In the Chimera the Killteam is basically a Leman Russ with added Plasma in case something gets close. Keep it at 36" to keep it alive, and fire on everything. When the Chimera goes down, the Acolytes start to work. 6 4+ saves is so I can allocate to them first, and that's what the 3 Stormbolter guys are for. They ought to get another Battlecannon round out of the Psykers, unless the enemy has managed to rush me badly. Once I lose them and lose enough Psykers that I can't beat the enemy's AP, the Psykers become extra wounds for the Plasmagunners, who are now basically Stormtroopers. They've still got the firepower to kill a MEQ or two before they die or flee. Otherwise, I get a Perils result early on, lose all my Psykers, and then it's a Plasma-squad in a Chimera. They can also do Objectives.

 

In more expensive games, I also run a Deathstar, the classic 11 DCAs and a Radhammer Inquisitor in a Stormraven. Hellishly expensive, but I need something to counteract Deathstar units. If it makes impact, there's only a handful of units in the game that won't be wiped out. Of course, as soon as they're exposed they die, but as long as they take out a decent unit first they're worth it, since the whole squad is 235 points. The Stormraven itself does gunship duties after delivery until it goes down, hopefully doing enough damage to have made it worthwhile. I've considered swapping the Stormraven for a Crusader, since that's more survivable and still a crucial assault vehicle, but it's slower, slightly more expensive, and not as good a gunship. I'd sub one in against guys I know are heavy on the antitank. I would never ever run a RAMMING SPEED squad without an Assault Vehicle, because they're just too fragile. Even an all-Crusader squad won't live long in the face of small-arms fire.

 

If Coteaz is by himself, or sitting with a Killteam, I always bring Servitors. The Servo ones are bad, but the gun ones are very nice. 10 points for a Multimelta or Heavy Bolter on Carapace is well worthwhile, and they've got the Acolyte profile with Carapace so I can call them more ISTs modelwise. Sit the lot on the hardest objective, and ruin the other guy's last-turn Deep Strike plans.

 

Jokaero are too expensive to run. Just one isn't a reliable bonus, two is too much, andwhen you run them by themselves they will lose. Guard get away with the old 'more Lascannon than you have models' lists because they have ablative bodies out of every orifice and Orders to boot. If you have spare points and an all-IST squad, then grab one and hope for the +range result.

 

Banishers are, if you run an assaulty Henchmen list, useful pocket-rockets. Keep one around in case of Dreadnought, and ensure you have the wound-allocation results to keep him alive for a few turns.

 

Arcos are no dice against MEQ, where the DCAs are fantastic, but against unarmoured gents they're excellent. They're damned good at munching low-save units, but horridly vulnerable to firepower. FNP sucks unless paired with a save.

 

Crusaders add an unfeasible amount of toughness to a unit while in the majority. Get two or three for a combat Inquisitor. If you can't go majority, though, don't bother. They also singlehandedly enable footslogger Henchmen lists, by fanning out in front as a living shield. They're too savey to be easy targets, and everything behind them gets 4+ cover. Too slow in combat to be of much use, but if you have a problem with Deathstar units, they're the tarpit from hell.

 

Daemonhosts are utter bollocks. Not only are they random, but all but one of the random results is worse than another Henchman. Reknit turns them into crappy Arcos, Grasp makes them awful DCAs, Speed makes them even WORSE DCAs, Strength makes them worse Arcos, Torrent makes them worse Psykers unless you have a huge unit, and Unholy Gaze makes them worse Meltaservitors with the caveat that they can act alone and shoot twelve at once. They're just bad. Also an insult to the disastrous might a Daemonhost is meant to have, but that's another story.

 

Mystics are a Teleport Homer with a profile. Take one if needed, none if not.

 

Some people have been experimenting heavily with their units, but I prefer to just find a job, and see how you can complete that job. The Killteam satisfies the basic infantry requirement of some resilienc,e some mobility, and as much affordable firepower as you can get. Death Cult Rush is the most efficient raw killer out there, but I can see how a half-half split of DCAs and Crusaders could be advantageous. Not just for added toughness, but because their much crappier offensive profiel may just be enough to stop the DCAs from outright annihilating the enemy unit. Unlikely if you have a Radhammer, though. Eight Psykers in a Chimera is a handy way to add heavy firepower to a list often devoid of it. You basically get a 36" Vindicator that can move and shoot, for the same points cost as a real one. More fragile, though.

[maturin]

I need help deciding on how to kit out my Inquisitor's warband, I mainly play against elite armies such as Space Marines, my ideas are:

 

Inquisitorial Chimera

4 Arco-Flagellants/ 4 Death Cult Assassins/ 2 Arco-Flagellants and 2 Death Cult Assassins

The rest of the squad being made up of Warrior Acolytes with Storm Bolters and Carapace armour

 

It seems your squad purpose might be a bit confused. Storm bolters are best used at range, keeping the enemy 24" away (on the move) while pelting them with shots. But your DCA's and Arcos will want to close as quickly as possible and get into CC, where the storm bolters aren't any good. If you want ablative wounds, I'd say just go with Acolytes with Carapace - keep their CCW/laspistol layout for more CC attacks from them, even if they're weak. If you want to soften the enemy up before you charge, toss 2 or 3 acolytes with flamers in. They'll do great against soft mobs (orks) while MEQ's will fall to the DCA's. Instead of a mixed shooty/CC unit, you now have a CC unit that can take on hordes or MEQ's equally effectively.

 

I'd house them in a rhino, not Chimera. It's much easier to charge out of a rhino thanks to the side doors.

 

And however many acolytes you toss in, try to keep it one less than the number of DCA's and Arcos - that way your squad is majority WS5, and your enemies will find it all that much harder to hit you in CC.

 

I think Jokaero's are too expensive for what they will do for the squad

I'm not fighting Daemons so Banishers aren't useful

Maybe Crusaders... what do you think?

Daemonhosts???

Servitors, possibly...

I think you would need to take too many Psykers to make their power useful

 

Jokaero's could be good for ranged shooting squads, if you stick to one or two. But that doesn't seem to be the role you want here.

 

I think Banishers with Eviscerators are just too darn expensive, for a single (maybe 2 on the charge) CC attack, even if it's STR 6 + 2D6. I'd just stay away from dreads and let something else take it out first.

 

Crusaders are ok, but you can't beat acolytes for the cost (ablative wounds-wise). I don't think of a unit of crusaders as an especially effective tarpit - they're still T3, and in most cases won't last longer than Sisters against shooting or CC. It's only a 3+ save after all. And they don't alter the toughness of the unit at all - as I said, they're still T3 like everyone else.

 

Daemonhosts are unreliable, but I might throw one in just for fun. He's pretty cheap.

 

Psykers are even more unreliable, I'd think, with only LD8. You're going to pass your psychic test just a bit more than half the time - not good enough!

 

DISCLAIMER: everything above is strictly Theoryhammer ©. ;)

[Wildfire]

Inquisitorial Chimera

4 Arco-Flagellants/ 4 Death Cult Assassins/ 2 Arco-Flagellants and 2 Death Cult Assassins

The rest of the squad being made up of Warrior Acolytes with Storm Bolters and Carapace armour

 

Would you say any other models would be useful against Space Marines?

 

I think Jokaero's are too expensive for what they will do for the squad

I'm not fighting Daemons so Banishers aren't useful

Maybe Crusaders... what do you think?

Daemonhosts???

Servitors, possibly...

I think you would need to take too many Psykers to make their power useful

 

How do you plan to use the squad? Assault or sitting back and shooting? If it's assault, ditch the storm bolters. If it's sitting back and shooting, ditch the CC units. Either way, ditch the carapace.

 

For an assault unit, against a MEq opponent, I'd go DCA x4, acolytes w/melta x3, acolytes x5. For a mobile shooty unit, I'd go acolytes w/plasma x3, acolytes w/bolter (or maybehotshot) x9, or just acolytes w/plasma x3 (no fluff). That's about the only unit I'd consider putting a couple of assault specialists in. For a sit-and-shoot unit, I'd go Jokero, acolyte w/plasma x3, acolyte w/bolter or storm bolter x8, (changing 3 acolyte to a plasma cannon and two heavy bolter servs if I planned on an inquisitor babysitting them). And always, always a chimera!

 

In more expensive games, I also run a Deathstar, the classic 11 DCAs and a Radhammer Inquisitor in a Stormraven. Hellishly expensive, but I need something to counteract Deathstar units. If it makes impact, there's only a handful of units in the game that won't be wiped out. Of course, as soon as they're exposed they die, but as long as they take out a decent unit first they're worth it, since the whole squad is 235 points. The Stormraven itself does gunship duties after delivery until it goes down, hopefully doing enough damage to have made it worthwhile. I've considered swapping the Stormraven for a Crusader, since that's more survivable and still a crucial assault vehicle, but it's slower, slightly more expensive, and not as good a gunship. I'd sub one in against guys I know are heavy on the antitank. I would never ever run a RAMMING SPEED squad without an Assault Vehicle, because they're just too fragile. Even an all-Crusader squad won't live long in the face of small-arms fire.

 

Hammer on hammer tactics are never a good idea. You'd be better served getting a few shooty units to take out the threat before it becomes a problem.

 

If Coteaz is by himself, or sitting with a Killteam, I always bring Servitors. The Servo ones are bad, but the gun ones are very nice. 10 points for a Multimelta or Heavy Bolter on Carapace is well worthwhile, and they've got the Acolyte profile with Carapace so I can call them more ISTs modelwise. Sit the lot on the hardest objective, and ruin the other guy's last-turn Deep Strike plans.

 

I disagree that basic servs are bad. They've got a S8 powerfist attack, something that no other henchman can get. That's important.

 

Banishers are, if you run an assaulty Henchmen list, useful pocket-rockets. Keep one around in case of Dreadnought, and ensure you have the wound-allocation results to keep him alive for a few turns.

 

You don't like servs but do like banishers? Banisher are 3x the cost and are worse against anything but vehicles (where they're only slightly better). Personally, I'd rather take a few ablative acolytes and just lose the squad when the rare dread assaults the squad. 95% of the time you'll be better off and you'll save a bunch of points.

 

Arcos are no dice against MEQ, where the DCAs are fantastic, but against unarmoured gents they're excellent. They're damned good at munching low-save units, but horridly vulnerable to firepower. FNP sucks unless paired with a save.

 

True, arcos are not as good as DCA vs. MEq. But vs. most everything else they're at least as good if not better. And they're not horrible vs. MEq, either. An arco will kill slightly less than 1/2 a marine each round, through weight of wounds. And FNP is better than the 5++ of DCAs vs. almost anything you'll fight in assault (except banshees, GKs, and the like). So it's really a meta decision. If your area is primarily MEq, bring more DCAs. If you've got a broader base of armies in your area, bring more arcos.

 

Crusaders add an unfeasible amount of toughness to a unit while in the majority. Get two or three for a combat Inquisitor. If you can't go majority, though, don't bother. They also singlehandedly enable footslogger Henchmen lists, by fanning out in front as a living shield. They're too savey to be easy targets, and everything behind them gets 4+ cover. Too slow in combat to be of much use, but if you have a problem with Deathstar units, they're the tarpit from hell.

 

Are you still playing 4th edition? Majority saves don't matter any more. Personally, I would almost never bother with these. I'd rather have ablative acolytes and put the squad in a chimera.

 

Psykers are even more unreliable, I'd think, with only LD8. You're going to pass your psychic test just a bit more than half the time - not good enough!

 

Actually, LD8 passes almost 3/4 of the time. Do the math.

[Drachnon]

Does anyone see any reason to field warrior acolytes with storm shields and/or power weapons? It just doesn't seem to give any benefit over taking crusaders.

(yes I'm aware that power sword +pistol gives 1 more attack but doesn't seem to be better then the extra storm shield)

[Wildfire]

Does anyone see any reason to field warrior acolytes with storm shields and/or power weapons? It just doesn't seem to give any benefit over taking crusaders.

(yes I'm aware that power sword +pistol gives 1 more attack but doesn't seem to be better then the extra storm shield)

 

No. And it's too bad, too. I'd like to have seen acolytes able to do something more than carry special weapons and stand up in front of bullets, but almost everything besides bolters and specials are drastically overcosted.

[number6]

Like Wildfire implied, you should focus your Warbands to do particular tasks. It doesn't really matter who your enemies are, you must build task- and points-efficient Warbands. By and large, I also think that you should buy Chimeras virtually all the time, for every Warband you take ... even if you specifically intend to footslog the warband or make it a long-range firebase in cover in your deployment zone. Chimeras are too cheap and too good to pass up. You can always run them empty or let some other unit (e.g., GK Terminators) borrow it. :tu:

 

For cheap, mobile shooty, I like:

3 Warriors w/melta guns, 5 Warriors w/stormbolters; Chimera: 132 pts

 

You can bust tanks and put wounds on elite infantry and MCs if/when you need to. Or you can shoot 5 stormbolters out the top hatch and dakka infantry from distance. All from the safety of your mobile bunker with its own array of weaponry.

 

Option: Add 1-2 Jokaero for yucks. :(

 

For assaulty, I like:

OM Inquisitor w/power armour, combi-melta, daemon hammer, hammerhand [88 pts]

3 Warriors w/melta guns, 2 Banishers w/eviscerators, 3 Death Cult Assassins, 3 Crusaders [162 pts]

Chimera [55 pts]

Total: 305

 

You can mix and match the DCAs and Crusaders -- more (or all) Crusaders for more survivability, more (or all) DCAs for greater punch -- but I figure you need only enough Crusaders to absorb power weapon/fist type wounds to last a round or two of combat, and only enough DCAs to take down a few initial enemy models to make it easier for your warband to survive a couple of close combat phases. You don't want to annihilate your opponent right away, you want to do it during your opponent's turn, if at all possible. :D

 

Let the Warriors take the first set of wounds in any case once you reach close combat, and any non instant death wounds can hit the Inquisitor first as well since he's got 3 wounds to spare. The meltas let you put initial wounds on elite infantry or slag the transport just before you launch your assault. The Inquisitor's fist and eviscerators (ideally all hitting at Str 8 thanks to Hammerhand) let you carve up anything you like.

 

Personally, I'm not a fan of the "pure" DCA assault unit. Once its ride is popped, they just get shot off the table. And if you're lucky enough to reach your target, they'll simply annihilate their target and then sit there with their mouths open, ripe for getting shot off the table. One hit wonder units do not impress me nor do they seem terribly useful as a result.

[Wildfire]

Personally, I'm not a fan of the "pure" DCA assault unit. Once its ride is popped, they just get shot off the table. And if you're lucky enough to reach your target, they'll simply annihilate their target and then sit there with their mouths open, ripe for getting shot off the table. One hit wonder units do not impress me nor do they seem terribly useful as a result.

 

^This x1000.

[Brother Sefiel]

Hello

 

These are Inquisitorial Stormtroopers; the best raw-human soldiers the Imperium can produce, backed by an orginatisation whose resources are effectively indefinite, and whose tasks are suicidal at the best and which will leave worlds burning if failed.

 

No, that's what they should be. What they are is WS3, BS3, I3 gumps with big guns. I find it almost painful that I should have to field an Inquisitorial task force with soldiers who are that bad.

 

Daemonhosts are utter bollocks.

 

But they are expendable, and you might be surprised how many people are prepared to waste shots on them.

 

For Jokaero, 2 is the optimum number. It gives you the best chance of getting a single upgrade, and the best chance of getting multiple upgrades. Any more and you can't get the range bonus (which is almost certainly the best, particularly if they are part of a shooty squad, which they should be).

 

My psykers have been surprisingly reliable, and they only need to be successful once (it's a squad of six) to really hurt the opposition. An attack that can kill a number of much more expensive models makes them potentially very dangerous.

[Hfran Morkai]

Why does it feel wrong? These are Inquisitorial Stormtroopers; the best raw-human soldiers the Imperium can produce, backed by an orginatisation whose resources are effectively indefinite, and whose tasks are suicidal at the best and which will leave worlds burning if failed. Them getting the best equipment the Imperium can mass-produce is a given. I can see you not wanting the Hotshot Lasguns, because they're not pointsworthy, but they're actually a lot harder to make than a Bolter so the fluff backing's not really there. If you don't want Stoirm Bolters for personal reasons, they don't take them, but at least go Bolters. One point for extra strength and AP is a gimme, and with Bolters you're easier to get in Plasma's firing range.

 

Because Bolt weapons are Astartes class weaponry? In the fluff they are stupidly rare outside of an Astartes hands an even then Storm Bolters aren't that common. Have you made both a Storm Bolter and Hotshot Lasgun, or do you at least have a source for how hard they are to produce? There are entire Regiments equipped with Hotshot Lasguns and they are what a Storm Trooper knows (considering he's been using Las weaponry most of his life) how many Space Marines come equipped with Storm Bolters?

[Rabidwolf7]

How do you plan to use the squad? Assault or sitting back and shooting? If it's assault, ditch the storm bolters. If it's sitting back and shooting, ditch the CC units. Either way, ditch the carapace.

 

Why ditch the Carapace? Considering the bog-standard gun AP is 5, the difference between a 5+ and a 4+ armour save is for me the largest and most important, and making the Acolyte 8 points isn't a massive loss in my opinion

[Hellios]

How do you plan to use the squad? Assault or sitting back and shooting? If it's assault, ditch the storm bolters. If it's sitting back and shooting, ditch the CC units. Either way, ditch the carapace.

 

Why ditch the Carapace? Considering the bog-standard gun AP is 5, the difference between a 5+ and a 4+ armour save is for me the largest and most important, and making the Acolyte 8 points isn't a massive loss in my opinion

 

Well when you take it on a squad wide basis (which you might not do...) you add 48pts onto the squad... for 7 more points you could get a chimera... I would rather have the chimera and I'm sure you have better options elsewhere... 4pts would be a good price for power armour... + 1pt for a bolter... yyou have guard marines for 9pts.. which isn't bad if you compare it to the 11pts for a sister (who is better)... but 4pts for carapace... mkay... 2pts... maybe.

[Freman Bloodglaive]

I'm going to call my lasguns las-blasters and say they have storm bolter stats. Hot shot lasguns are not worth the points against any unit except Marines, and those only when they're not in cover. For the same cost as one Grey Knight (+1 point) I can get 3 acolytes with storm bolters and volume of fire is the killer there.

 

Since I have some grenade launchers, and they're not an option for acolytes, I'll count them as meltaguns. Obviously they fire some sort of melta grenade.

 

In terms of their actual stats, and looking at their options, I think they're there to allow you to field the equivalent of a Inquistor game warband. If your warband had a Space Marine, you buy an Acolyte power armour and a bolter, so on and so forth. The fluff version is of course quite ineffective, but that's not why you'd run them.

[Wildfire]

Why ditch the Carapace? Considering the bog-standard gun AP is 5, the difference between a 5+ and a 4+ armour save is for me the largest and most important, and making the Acolyte 8 points isn't a massive loss in my opinion

 

Because if you're going to sit back and shoot, you should be in cover. If you're advancing to close range, you should have a vehicle to protect you. Either way, carapzce isn't better than twice as many acolytes.

 

Well when you take it on a squad wide basis (which you might not do...) you add 48pts onto the squad... for 7 more points you could get a chimera... I would rather have the chimera and I'm sure you have better options elsewhere... 4pts would be a good price for power armour... + 1pt for a bolter... yyou have guard marines for 9pts.. which isn't bad if you compare it to the 11pts for a sister (who is better)... but 4pts for carapace... mkay... 2pts... maybe.

 

Yeah, of the many overcosted things acolytes can get armour is the worst. Explain to me how a cheap, 1 wound acolyte's powered armor costs 2 points more than that of a 3 wound inquisitor who costs over 6 times as much? Idiocy. Carapace should be 3 (maybe 2, but that's probably pushing it) and powered armor should be 6 or possibly 7.n And an Inquisitor's powered armour should cost a bit more. They can, after all, be singled out in combat!

[Hellios]

Yeah, of the many overcosted things acolytes can get armour is the worst. Explain to me how a cheap, 1 wound acolyte's powered armor costs 2 points more than that of a 3 wound inquisitor who costs over 6 times as much? Idiocy. Carapace should be 3 (maybe 2, but that's probably pushing it) and powered armor should be 6 or possibly 7.n And an Inquisitor's powered armour should cost a bit more. They can, after all, be singled out in combat!

 

Guard used to get carapace for 2pts a model (assuming a 10man squad) and that seemed fair and warrior acolytes are basically guard... as for power armour at 7pts you make them cost as much as sisters but they are inferior to sisters in a number of ways... I think 4-5pts would actually make them nice but not broken.