So many cool choices in the new GK Codex

[HB66]

So i got my codex and am totally overloaded with ideas on armies.

2 important points

- I love inquisitors, im reading all the BL Inquisitor books so want to make a real Inquisitor Fluff army.

- Love shooty armies with a nice close combat punch to finish em off.

 

What i was thinking was running two HQ choices, both inquisitors

- HQ #1 - Valeria: i like her invuln save and all her cool toys, like the Ordo Xenos.

- HQ #2 - "Valeria's protege": base Xeno inquisitor with Conversion Beamer

 

So heres wher i get divided:

- Elites

- 10 Henchmen squad, 2 Jokero, 3 servitors with HB's and Plasma, 5 WA's with carapace and storm bolters or hot shot.

- Techmarine w/ Orbital Strike Relay

- Calidus or Vindicare Assassin

 

those are the elite choices i like, but not sure if i wanna run 2 henchmen squads...with Chimeras for added firepower and screening and a techmarine. Or one henchmen squad, one assassin, and one techmarine????

 

for the rest of the army im still not sure , but i like a DreadKnight and maybe a Purgation sqaud, and then maybe some Strike Squads in rhinos.

Any thoughts or Pointers?

HB66

[number6]

Your henchmen unit is both overloaded and confused. See my recent post on this topic for a couple of suggestions on how you can run warbands. In general, you need to focus the warband to do one task really well. Strip it of anything that doesn't fit.

 

For example, if you're taking MM or PC servitors, there's little reason to take more than 2 or 3 of them. You just want to hit reliably. Any points on warband members after that is wasted points because the point of the unit is to sit still and take shots. It's not like they'll survive if out of cover, on the table. Shooting will kill them quick. As will just about anything that decides to assualt it. And this is true whether you attach an Inquisitor, a mess of DCAs, Crusaders ... doesn't matter. If you're using servitors, the unit is a shooty unit, full stop. No combat upgrades. Put your combat abilities elsewhere in your list.

 

Note that you can do things like take HB servitors -- say 5 of them -- and you can either park them in your deployment zone and claim an objective (take Coteaz!) or put them in their Chimera and let them shoot out the top hatch. They're cheap enough and it's just infantry dakka, so attaching an Inquisitor isn't totally necessary. Leaving the Inquisitor off such a unit actually lowers their threat level to the opponent, actually, and thus makes them more survivable. Build your list correctly, and the randomness of Mind Lock won't be a huge deterrent. Consider these kinds of units "bonus" units that are cheap but give you Chimeras to play with. Perhaps giving them to other units, like GKs....

 

I also think it's best to look at jokaero as a kind of reliable servitor that you're paying big points for to get a bit of weapon flexibility and a possible cool upgrade. But as with MM and PC servitors, you probably shouldn't take more than 2 in a unit at a time. Anything beyond that is just overkill.

 

The Techmarine is a relatively versatile unit. The OSR is cool but do note that its signature weapon -- the Lance Strike -- is only a small blast. Plus you have to figure many targets -- most targets -- will get cover saves against it just because of the rules and the way 40K is typically played. As with the HB servitor concept I listed above, take the OSR because it might give you bonus. But I wouldn't count on it. Unlike your ability to get PC servitors for cheap -- and conversion beamers for a relatively decent price on a stripped down OX inquisitor -- OSRs only come on very expensive models. Spamming them is hardly an option, and that means that you can't depend on it do anything useful. It can help, but it's not a major piece of offense.

 

Sadly, I don't see much use for the Callidus Assassin in her current incarnation. :no: Quite simply, there are better ways to kill off infantry than with her for the points spent.

 

The Vindicare is definitely effective, though quite fragile. Any enemy focus on him and he's dead. The trick to using him effectively, therefore, is to always have something more important for your opponent to target. ;) He'll definitely be better protected if you happen to have both a ruin and a techmarine in your force, but then you've devoted a minimum of a 235 pts and 2 Elite slots to this combo. Not the most efficient use of points. ;)

 

In the end, what units you use will depend entirely on your overall list build. None of the units you listed -- from Warbands to Techmarines to Assassins -- are comparable. We're talking apples to soup bowls kind of comparisons (which is to say, meaningless). ;)

[Gentlemanloser]

I'm giving serious consideration ot using Coteaz and a 2 PC Servitor unit in a Rhino for long range support / home objective holding. What would you take for the third Henchman? And would you add anything else to the unit?

 

A Rhino over a Chimera becuase you can sit in it and use Fortitiude to take any Stuns off so you can still shoot from inside every round.

[number6]

I'm giving serious consideration ot using Coteaz and a 2 PC Servitor unit in a Rhino for long range support / home objective holding. What would you take for the third Henchman? And would you add anything else to the unit?

 

A Rhino over a Chimera becuase you can sit in it and use Fortitiude to take any Stuns off so you can still shoot from inside every round.

I wouldn't take the Rhino, I'd take Chimera. The extra AV, weaponry, versatility, and fire points are rarely worth sacrificing.

 

For a PC servitor unit, take a 3rd PC servitor.

 

Also, I don't think babysitting Servitors is the best use of Coteaz. Use a different Inquisitor for that. I'd only use Coteaz as a servitor babysitter if template spam (i.e., as many templates as you can reasonably pack in to the list) is a theme. If you're taking two such PC servitor units, by all means attach Coteaz to one of them. Otherwise, do something else with him.

[Gentlemanloser]

My tohughts on the Rhino over the Chimera was if the Chim gets stunned, the Servitors can't shoot. Where as the Rhino has Fort.

 

Coteaz was just to get the Servitors the ability to score, but I could do that with a GM really. And I tohught his old style Mystic ability would be useful with the Servitors.

 

But this is just theoretical atm, I'm not sold on any Henchmen. Just trying to decide who to stick in my Rhino/Razorbacks! :)

[Wildfire]

I'm giving serious consideration ot using Coteaz and a 2 PC Servitor unit in a Rhino for long range support / home objective holding. What would you take for the third Henchman? And would you add anything else to the unit?

 

A Rhino over a Chimera becuase you can sit in it and use Fortitiude to take any Stuns off so you can still shoot from inside every round.

 

Leaving aside the rhino/chimera debate, I would always take a bunch of naked acolytes in such a squad, just to soak up wounds when the rhino explodes and in the shooting frenzy afterwards.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Coteaz is best hanging out with a DCA+Banisher squad in a Landraider or Stormraven, to boost them with 'Hammerhand'. His 12" Mystic ability is kinda meh, it's rare you'll get much use from it.

 

Tech-Marine with OSR is a better baby-sitter to plasma cannon servitors in a Chimera (don't forget 1-2 Jokaero for lulz). He has to stay still like them, and he drops bombs on people.

[Wildfire]

I totally, completely, and in all other ways disagree.

[Freman Bloodglaive]

If techmarines negated mindlock I could see the point, but instead it'd mean that expensive OSR is doing nothing half the time.

 

Servitors either have an Inquisitor, or they sit together with a few acolytes as fodder.

[HB66]

Number6,

i did re read your post about warbands....

my thought was to have a henchmen squad with alot of shooty WA, and Servitors, and then have the two Jokero's buffing their shooting and armor. then i could baybe stick a Techmarine back there with them so he can bolster defenses if theyre in a ruin and so he can add OSR?

- that would be my fireline, and then maybe have two of those henchmen squads?

 

so (2) 10 man squads

- 2 Jokero

- 3 Gun Servitors (HB or Plasma....going for range)

- 5 WA with storm bolters and carapace......the Jokero can improve both range and their armor save

(1) Techmarine w/ OSR, storm bolter, psybolt ammo

 

Then maybe if i have the points depending on my build have an Inquisitorial Chimera on the outside flank of each henchmen unit. have each chimera outfitted with 2 HB's and psybolt ammo? Provides some cover, extra firepower, and added mobility just in case.

 

For the rest of the army maybe some strike squads in rhinos for mobility, Interceptor squads, maybe a 10 man Purgation squad in a LR if i can swing the points depending on how big the army is. I would definetley want to ad a Dread Knight or two. I guess mainly im going more for Fluff, i mean i want the army to have some tactical soundness, and viability but want to stay true to the fluffy, shooty, inquisitor feel of it.

HB66

[number6]

There are three issues I have with your proposed unit.

 

1. The ranges of your guns are all mismatched. This means that you will rarely be making optimal use of the unit. Usually, some portion of your unit will be out of range. That's inefficient.

 

2. The actual purposes of your guns are all mismatched. This means that you will rarely be making optimal use of the unit. Some guns are clearly anti-armour, others are clearly anti-infantry. It's inefficient to mix and match in a single unit. There's a reason you never see the lesser Astartes arm their Devastator units with multiple weapon types ... unless they specifically plan to combat squad the unit.

 

3. The only time I wouldn't have an Inquisitor babysitter for servitors is if your unit consists of nothing but HB servitors. That's super cheap, and it's not necessarily a big deal, therefore, if your HBs aren't always firing each and every turn. It's bonus dakka. And you take such a unit both for the bonus dakka and for the extra Chimera hull you can repurpose. Your unit has far too many points invested if far too important guns to risk suffering from Mind Lock.

 

As I've stated multiple times, you must focus your warband to perform exactly one task very efficiently. Nothing else is worth putting on the table.

[HB66]

yes unit efficiency is extremly important, not disagreeing with you there.

 

- i guess my take on it is if lets say for example i have on of those henchmen units with 2 HB's and a PC, and then i have all my WA with 24" SB's......i think the multiple ranges on my weapons simply gives me more versatility as a unit. Yes i wont be able to focus all my firepower, but that will only be for a turn or two at most. If i want to remain static, i just hope i get the range augment from the Jokero's first turn, or i can just shoot at what i can reach, or i can repositon to counter how my enemy has deployed, moved in the first turn, or brought in a reserve or deepstrike unit.

 

- your very right i loose max efficiency, but i think i gain that important versatility. Optimally your right i dont want to even move my shooty henchmen unit, but if i need to move i can....not that i couldnt before, plus i like having a plasma servitor in there....just in case......i guess im kind of using this unit as a "swiss army knife" shooty unit.

 

HB66

[number6]

I don't believe "swiss army knife" as a tactical approach actually works for virtually any unit in any 40K army. You're always throwing points away playing the "just in case" game.

 

Instead of taking 1 unit that is inefficient, why not take two cheaper units that cover all the bases your 1 unit did, only better and more efficiently?

[Freman Bloodglaive]

I would say, for 7 points, warrior acolytes with storm bolters are just about the best henchman offering. I would tag them along with any unit because they're just insanely cheap extra wounds which still have a use. At range each one puts out 2 strength 4 shots. If assaulting they can shoot a bit more, being assault weapons you lose little by doing so, and their shots are more valuable than their close combat contribution.

 

For 14 points you get a meltagun.

 

Sure they have lousy armour, but they're cheap, so take more of them.

[HB66]

I was also thinking of adding carapace armor as well.

 

11pts per model, 2 str 4 assault shots...and 4+ armor save

- with jokeros in there you can get the range of the SB's up to 36" and the armor up to 3+

 

 

Number6.......if i took that same henchmen squad and took out the three servitors and just had 3 more of these storm bolter/carapace WA's is that more efficient? i mean all the weapon ranges are the same now, but you dont have that little bit of extra punch from HB or PC servitors.

HB66

[number6]

Number6.......if i took that same henchmen squad and took out the three servitors and just had 3 more of these storm bolter/carapace WA's is that more efficient? i mean all the weapon ranges are the same now, but you dont have that little bit of extra punch from HB or PC servitors.

HB66

Take a 2nd henchmen unit with PC servitors. There, now you've covered your versatility base and your squads do their jobs correctly. <_<

[HB66]

You can only have 3 servitors outfitted with heavy weapons though

- now you have one henchmen squad with alot of anti infantry fire, and another that only has 3 PC servitors and some jokero.

HB66

[ToI]

@HB66 - I fail to see how this is a bad thing... The Jokaero and HW servitors act as an AT firebase, and the one that is loaded with anti infantry can focus on doing that job well. 9 times out of 10 i would rather have two units that do their jobs well versus 2 units that try to do 2 different jobs, but only ok.

[HB66]

i definetley dont have a problem with two units, with each focusing on a different task.........

- i just feel that for example Squad #2 w/ 3 PC Servitors and 2 Jokero.....is not "full" i feel that i should have more people in it......all through out my warhammer career ive tried to maximize my squad sizes.

- dont have a problem with what the squads are doing, just dont like having "tiny" squads....if that makes sense?

- But with GK i guess im gona have to get over that personal dislike of mine. :mellow:

 

HB66

[ToI]

i definetley dont have a problem with two units, with each focusing on a different task.........

- i just feel that for example Squad #2 w/ 3 PC Servitors and 2 Jokero.....is not "full" i feel that i should have more people in it......all through out my warhammer career ive tried to maximize my squad sizes.

- dont have a problem with what the squads are doing, just dont like having "tiny" squads....if that makes sense?

- But with GK i guess im gona have to get over that personal dislike of mine. :mellow:

 

HB66

 

 

With henchmen I think you can afford to slap on ablative dudes in the squads, cause you aren't paying ridiculous amounts of points per dude. Maybe some melta acolytes in the jokero squad or some such. So yeah, I do get what you are saying

[HB66]

Cool,

im glad im not going totally insane :(

 

I just looked in my GK codex and found the perfect fit for a PC Servitor/Jokero squad.......Psykers!!!!

 

the range on the Psykers shooting attack is 36" as well, and it only gets better for each extra one that you add, perfect :) and at only 10 pts a piece they are cheaper than a WA with a plasma gun or melta gun.....how ya like them apples

 

3 - PC Servitors

2 - Jokero

5 - Psykers

 

HB66

[Freman Bloodglaive]

Remember that mind lock stuffs the entire squad up, so don't take more than two expensive shooty henchmen squads. Three heavy bolter servitors with a few storm bolter acolytes don't matter. If they shoot, good, if not, no loss.

 

Three plasma cannon servitors, three plasma gun acolytes, and a couple of Jokaero? Give them a hellrifle armed Inquisitor (or Coteaz) and stick them in cover. They can't afford to be locked up.

[Red Lost Soldier]

Also, I don't think babysitting Servitors is the best use of Coteaz. Use a different Inquisitor for that. I'd only use Coteaz as a servitor babysitter if template spam (i.e., as many templates as you can reasonably pack in to the list) is a theme. If you're taking two such PC servitor units, by all means attach Coteaz to one of them. Otherwise, do something else with him.

 

I find usually I'm spending at least 50pt to babysit my 3 PC unit. Usually one 15pt upgrade like a hellrifle or grenades or something, and 10pt for the power sword. Now I'm thinking more and more the 50pt upgrade to Coteaz is very attractive. This gives him, artificer armour (for taking wounds from henchmen), , the 12" shoot anything from reserve roll (very useful I've found, Ymargl!!), and 2 Psychic powers (the most useful being Santuary, which sometimes gives me one more turn of shooting). Also the biggest thing for me taking a Stormraven is the re roll to seize the initiative and forcing the enemy to re roll theirs. The latter almost virtually guaranteeing you can't be seized against, the form not to be relied on but still possibly very handy. Lastly making them troops means they score and they can be deployed in DOW missions. The daemonhammer and hammerhand aren't great in of themselves for my purposes.

 

I see all this as well worth the points. Then again I usually don't take a GK hero, even at 1750pt. I'm curious number6 what you think is a better use of him? Sure he has hammerhand to boost DCA and the like, but a 70pt Inquisitor can do that better, with rad grenades etc. to even better boost the unit. I understand in any army taking more than 1 henchmen squad he is compulsory, but I'd still have him with a shooty squad in that scenario.

[number6]

I see all this as well worth the points. Then again I usually don't take a GK hero, even at 1750pt. I'm curious number6 what you think is a better use of him? Sure he has hammerhand to boost DCA and the like, but a 70pt Inquisitor can do that better, with rad grenades etc. to even better boost the unit. I understand in any army taking more than 1 henchmen squad he is compulsory, but I'd still have him with a shooty squad in that scenario.

You make excellent and compelling points. :P But I would always want to stick Coteaz in a Chimera. That way you can get maximum use of this ability to get free shots on reserves. I.e., you don't have to worry about perfectly placing him and just denying a single point of entry; you have the potential to get him virtually anywhere. And with the Chimera, you can shoot 5 guys out the top. :lol:

 

Coteaz is also clearly (to me, anyway), an assault unit buff character. Not like he's a Librarian or any kind of GK, but still, he's about as good as the Inquisition side of things gets. Again, if he's in that chimera, and he's with a unit with, say, plasma/melta and some fighty dudes, too (e.g., DCAs, Crusaders, Banishers), then you can shoot any reserves coming on and then take the fight to them as well.

 

Leaving Coteaz static is really the big problem I have with tactic. I think he's best used as mobile buff support.

[HB66]

My plan was to use Valeria....

- I prefer the Xenos inquisitors, mostly for fluff reasons.

- Valeria has a 4+ invuln save, dont have my codex with me right now, but i believe she is the only inquisitor to have a 4+.

- and all her gear makes her pretty nasty as well, i know the pistol is only one shot, but the cube maze is nice.

 

From all the pointers ive gotten on this stream i think i will stick Valeria with 11 man henchmen squad, 2 Jokero's and 9 WA w/ carapace and storm bolters in a Chimera.....mobile shooty unit (anti-infantry)

 

Then a 3 PC Servitor, 2 Jokero static unit with another attached Xenos inquisitor with a Conversion Beamer only.

 

Still havent decided if i wanna use my last Elite slot for a Vindicare or a Techmarine with OSR????

 

Thoughts?

HB66