Mysticaria Posted April 27, 2011 Share Posted April 27, 2011 ok, here's the deal. I love: - Assault Terminators - Tactical Terminators - Dreadnaughts - Sternguard So, I've ended up with lots of models that can't really be played together in a normal format. I have thought about trying to include Master of the Forge to make the dreads heavy choice instead of elite, but he just feels like a lackluster option. I've tried to get my friends to play Apocalypse, but those games are few and far between and of course they don't really have a lot of APOC tournaments around here. My final option has been to rotate the models into games, but then it always feels like I'm leaving something out. Is it just me, or does anyone else have this problem with their ELITES? Maybe with FAST or HEAVY choices? What do you do to ensure you can play with all your favorite models? Is there another solution to get all these models into an army that I haven't thought of? -Myst Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurglephill Posted April 27, 2011 Share Posted April 27, 2011 I know EXACTLY what you mean. Solutions... Use the Sternguard as tactical marines...or BREAK THE RULES! Just because the codex says you can only have three Elite choices doesn't mean you can only have three elite choices! Come up with a senario..er..something like your chapter master and some of his veterans are on a..er....diplomatic mission and get ambushed by....something like that. Explain to your friends you REALLY want to play all these models together and go for it. Friendly games are meant to be friendly right? With tweaking and the odd special rule for your opponent you should be able to get a really exciting and FAIR game out of it. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellios Posted April 27, 2011 Share Posted April 27, 2011 Deathwing! Nah nah nah... ok company vets don't have special ammo... but they are still pretty cool! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted April 27, 2011 Share Posted April 27, 2011 I understand how you feel at times Myst. There have been times when I've said to myself, why don't I take an Assault Terminator squad with my Sternguard. Those are the times I lament the fact I love my Sternguard and love my Rifleman Dreads, so I cannot take them all :). Also, I like planning and writing fluffy lists for fun. When writing Raven Guard lists with Shrike I continually hit the problem of not having enough Fast Attack for the Speeders I want and the Assault squads etc. I suppose for fun it's just Apoc, but even then that has time limitations etc. Really is hard and annoying, isn't it? Why couldn't there be a system like the old Iron Warriors, except for every Elites, Fast Attack and Heavy Support choice? Ie, if you want to take an extra Elites choice you lose a FA and HS choice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Something Wycked Posted April 27, 2011 Share Posted April 27, 2011 I'm there with you. I have 12 or so Heavy choices. Outside of what has already been said, non-standard mission games or Apoc, there really isn't a way to bring everything, unfortunately. :confused: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I AM THE AWESOME Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 Strategery? Take a Master of the Forge. There, now you can use 6 distinct Elite choices in a single FOC! (well, provided of course that 3 of those 6 are Dreadnoughts, but let's not get bogged down in silly details!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meatman Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 I have the same problem with fast attack. Typhoons, land speeder storms, scout bikers, assault marines, attack bikes... Hmmmmm.... Play planet strike games? You get 3 extra elite slots, that could help? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowstalker Grim Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 With the fact that now troops are the only unit that are 'scoring' I don't see why GW can't just scrap the FOC! It'd let a large number of totally new armies crawl out of the woodwork and lets face it, if you CHOOSE not to take troops you're CHOOSING not to take a scoring unit and put the points elsewhere. Admittedly, I should think that large numbers of people might take 1 small scoring unit and the rest as death machines, but if everyone does it, then its not so much of a problem! There are days when i'd love an oversized command squad..... But yes I'd always like to take more elites, there are so many I like! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagicMan Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 I think the Points% system they use in fantasy sounds pretty good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonaides Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 Play as Blood Angels? Those dreads become Heavy Support... (asusming that they're just standard dreads, not Ironclads) while the termies and Sternguard would fill up your Elites section. Failing that, play bigger games with multiple FOC's (2500-3000pts is probably about the smallest you want to do with 2 FOCs otherwise it does get rather stupid). Simply means you need 4 Troops choices, 2 HQ's and then you can have up to 6 Elites. But why would you want to use all of them in every battle? Surely you play some people where your termies would be a waste (IG for example - there isnt a single unit in their army thats worht taking Assault Termies to deal with). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 I have the same problem with fast attack. Typhoons, land speeder storms, scout bikers, assault marines, attack bikes... Hmmmmm.... Play planet strike games? You get 3 extra elite slots, that could help? You described the reason I originally switched to Blood Angels so long ago. I wanted lots of Assault marines and attack bikes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysticaria Posted April 28, 2011 Author Share Posted April 28, 2011 Play as Blood Angels? Those dreads become Heavy Support... (asusming that they're just standard dreads, not Ironclads) while the termies and Sternguard would fill up your Elites section. Failing that, play bigger games with multiple FOC's (2500-3000pts is probably about the smallest you want to do with 2 FOCs otherwise it does get rather stupid). Simply means you need 4 Troops choices, 2 HQ's and then you can have up to 6 Elites. But why would you want to use all of them in every battle? Surely you play some people where your termies would be a waste (IG for example - there isnt a single unit in their army thats worht taking Assault Termies to deal with). Thanks for the suggestion. Blood Angels you say? Well, I had seriously thought about switching codex... but all my models are painted as Ultramarines and I'm a little afraid to roll into a FLGS with my "Angels of Ultramar" or my "Ultrawing" army. Not sure I'd get a good reaction here... and re-painting isn't an option. Starting another army, well, that might be an option but I'm currently in the process of working on a xenos army so that would have to wait for a while. Also... I always play all-comers armies. In my play group and in the local store I always make my army list before i know what army I'll be facing. If one of my buddies is coming over I generally know I'll be facing one of a couple armies, but we mostly are playtesting for a tournament and don't really play too much campaigns and stuff. I have been considering running a map-based campaign of planetary empires... we'd have BFG, Kill Teams, Standard Games, and APOC all included through a narrative campaign, but just haven't gotten around to it. Maybe I'll use this as motivation to finally get that going. -Myst Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ming Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 As I do all the time - Kantor unlocks Sternguard to be scoring. Take Kantor and 2 minimum scout squads. Now add in 20 sternguard and 10 assault terminators.... And 30 Vanguard.... Nuff said...all the elites you can want.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 @ Ming, that doesn't quite solve the problem of not being able to use Sternguard, Terminators, Dreadnoughts, and Assault Terminators. I mean it sort of helps, and you have lots of Elites, but whether you have Kantor or not it's using up the same amount of force org slots. As others have rightly said, the best way around it is either switch Codex to Blood Angels, where Dreads are heavy support, or take a MotF to unlock Dreads as Heavy Support. He's not that bad too, the servo-harness is a nifty piece of wargear giving him two power fits attacks, a TL-plasma pistol and a flamer, while he can still take a thunder hammer or more likely, power weapon and bolt pistol in his hands. Or take a conversion beamer and stick him in a corner, or on a bike, and rain horrible high strength shots onto your opponent. And you get to use lots of Elites, although you sacrifice Heavy Support... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cernunnos Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 Would it be possible to run 2 FOC's, so your army is made up of 2 detachments. It requires 2 HQ's and 4 Troops choices so it will depend on the point level you play at but with min sized scout squads it can probably be done. Add in a master of the forge to move dreads to heavy support and you should have plenty of room. Also the master of the forge's enhancing of cover ties up well with the scouts if you give them camo cloaks. I know you are not a fan but I personally think the Master of the Forge is underestimated. The stats may look underwhelming but add a power weapon and on the charge he adds 4 PW attacks and 2 power fist attacks, as well as providing a flamer and plasma pistol, so he can really boost a squad he is attached to. I am thinking of running one to accompany a Tactical squad. The idea is to split them so a lascannon combat squad sits on a home objective whilst the other combat squad is joined by the master of the forge and advances into midfield. I think 2 flamers as well as 8 power weapon attacks and 2 power fist attacks on the charge makes the squad quite handy, and certainly more substantial than if unaccompanied. It is expensive with the master of the forge joined but as I would be paying for one HQ or another it doesn't seem too bad. I'm sure he could similarly enhance a sternguard squad, although they probably don't need the help as badly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coopervisor Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 I have to agree with the original point about elites. I guess that's the problem with having dreadnoughts stuck in there rather than heavy support. Otherwise I could have my ideal force. The only problem with taking the Master of the Forge is that I'd much prefer taking a cheap librarian and a special char for my main HQ. There will always be a difference between my army from a collectors point of view and what I can use in game. That and I have a weakness for FW dreadnoughts :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 Well by the looks of things Dreads are starting to be put in Heavy Support, first Blood Angels and now Grey Knights. If this keeps up then Black Templars will probably see that happen, and when our turn finally rolls around (after Dark Angels have their turn of course), then we may finally have our all Elites army! So here's for what may or may not happen in probably 5 years guys! :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skink Posted April 29, 2011 Share Posted April 29, 2011 Deathwing! Nah nah nah... ok company vets don't have special ammo... but they are still pretty cool! Surpised this hasn't been pushed more... Field an entire army of Teminators and Dreads? With mixed Tactical and Assault loadouts, and a cyclone in every squad?? And they're Troops, so you don't need to worry about dilution from superfluous Scout/Tactical squads?! Job's a good'un... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr Shepard Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 Planetary Strike allows you to use 6 Elite choices if you play as the attacker, and only a HQ is mandatory.... maybe it is of your interest :cuss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 The problem with Planetstrike is that you need the battlefield for it, with bastions and defence lines etc. Furthermore, you have no guarantee to be the attacker. Of course if your friendly enough with your opponent and you arrange the game they may be fine with you playing attacker, but as a one off I'd imagine it comes to a dice roll. And if you lose then you need to be a defender with a very different battle force Furthermore, Planetstrike isn't that good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr Shepard Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 The problem with Planetstrike is that you need the battlefield for it, with bastions and defence lines etc. Furthermore, you have no guarantee to be the attacker. Of course if your friendly enough with your opponent and you arrange the game they may be fine with you playing attacker, but as a one off I'd imagine it comes to a dice roll. And if you lose then you need to be a defender with a very different battle force Furthermore, Planetstrike isn't that good. If it is a friendly game you can indeed ask your friend to play as the attacker in order to use 6 elite choices. I never played planet strike but if the bastions and defence lines are a problem you can still ask the other player if he agree to play a standard game with planet strike attacker FOC. In a friendly game players can make any kind of agreement. Otherwise, there is Apocalypse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearersOfSalvation Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 If it is a friendly game you can indeed ask your friend to play as the attacker in order to use 6 elite choices. I never played planet strike but if the bastions and defence lines are a problem you can still ask the other player if he agree to play a standard game with planet strike attacker FOC. I think it's asinine to ask the other guy to give you a one-sided advantage like that. Why not put forward the idea that either of you can use 6 of a single force org type instead of 3 instead? That way you're offering your opponent and equal or better special to compensate for yours, and not pulling the 'hey give me this, oh if you say no you're just an unreasonable powergaming jerk' schtick that some people are big on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysticaria Posted May 1, 2011 Author Share Posted May 1, 2011 In my casual gaming group we can use some of these suggestions. As for tournaments... might have to look into Deathwing. That seems like it is my type of army. -Myst Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 In my casual gaming group we can use some of these suggestions. As for tournaments... might have to look into Deathwing. That seems like it is my type of army. -Myst The one thing to bear in mind about Deathwing is that their units cannot exceed the maximum of 5 men, and heavy weapons, like always, are tailored to 1 per 5, which means that you won't be able to get your 10 man, 2 cyclone squad you seem to prefer. That being said, you can easily get Dreads and both kinds of Terminators, thanks to Terminators being Troops with Belial and mixing Tactical and Assault Terminators, leaving the Elites slots open for Dreads. On the downside, no Sternguard, just the rather lacklustre option of Company Veterans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr Shepard Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 Why not put forward the idea that either of you can use 6 of a single force org type instead of 3 instead? That's exactly what I was talking about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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