Battle Report Vs. Grey Knights

[CaptainLNH]

This Battle took place last Thursday at a GW, the Grey Knights Player was the Store Manager.

 

Battle Report

Deployment- Spearhead

Objective- Capture two of three objectives

Sides- Lightning Warriors (Blood Angels)- Grey Knights

2000 pts. Per Side

 

Army List- Lightning Warriors

HQ- Librarian w/ Shield and Blood Boil

Elite- Furioso Librarian Dreadnought w/ Shield and Blood Boil

Elite- 5 Flame Guardians (Sanguinary Guard) w/ Chapter Banner and Plasma Pistol

Troop- 10 Tactical Squad w/ plasma gun, heavy bolter, combi-melta

Troop- 10 Tactical Squad w/ plasma gun, heavy bolter, power weapon,

Troop- 5 Assault Squad w/ power weapon, plasma pistol, jump packs

Troop- 5 Assault Squad w/ power weapon, plasma pistol, jump packs

Fast- 1 Attack Bike w/ Multi-Melta,

Fast- Baal class Predator w/ Twin Assault Cannons, Heavy Bolter Sponsons

Heavy- Stormraven w/ Twin Plasma Cannon, Typhoon Missiles, Extra Armor

Heavy- Vindicator Tank w/ Siege Shield

Heavy- 10 Devastator Squad w/ 2x Plasma Cannons, 2x Lascannons

 

Army List- Grey Knights (Most of this was found out during play, Forgive any mistakes made)

HQ- Grand Master- with sword, Terminator armor, and an ability that made his paladins scoring

HQ- Grey Knight Librarian- w/ Terminator Armor, and Shroud power (+1 other he did not use)

Elite- Paladins, 6 in Terminator armor, apothecary, 2x halberds, Psychotropic Grenades (or is it Radiation Grenades?)

Elite or Heavy? - Dreadknight w/ a str.7 blast template gun, big sword, & long range flamer (not sure of the names)

Elite- Vindicare Assassin w/ Rifle and Turbo Penetration rounds (ouch)

Troop- 10 Terminators w/ 6 halberds, pestilencer, 2x hammers, & some Named Justicar

Troop- Strike Squad w/ Rhino transport, flamer, justicar w/ hammer, pestilencer

 

 

The Battle- Turn One

I win priority, and deploy first. I place my Dev Combat Squads on the top and bottom levels of a three story ruin on my extreme left flank. Libby goes on the second story, and the Raven (w/ SG inside) deploys behind the ruin in landed position. Vindicator goes on extreme right flank with Attack Bike hiding behind it. In the middle is the Assault cannon Predator with combat squads w/ heavy bolters on either side. And the other combat squads deploy near the terrain on either flank. And the Libby Dreadnought sits behind Pred to shield units.

GKs deploy the Dreadknight on my left flank in a crater near an objective, the Paladins reserve, Termies and Libby deploy behind ruin on his left (my right) flank, Sniper assassin hides in same ruin, and the Rhino w/ Strike Squad blocks line of sight to termies.

 

I keep priority, and move my Vindicator twelve in. up my right flank, with Attack Bike still hiding behind it. Raven lifts off and moves to have LOS to Dreadknight. Tactical and Assault Combat squads without HBs move towards objectives.

My firepower wounds DK three times, stuns Rhino, and fails to kill assassin.

He moves termies and Libby into his ruin, moves Dreadknight towards my combat squad on the left, and moves his Rhino towards my vindicator.

His firepower kills two three of my Tactical Marines, and wrecks my Vindicator with a Turbo Penetrator round score of Str. 18 and AP1.

 

The Battle- Turn Two

I move Attack Bike into 12 in. range of Rhino, move Raven and 3 man Tactical towards DK, and hide a Assault Combat squad behind wrecked vindicator.

My firepower kills DK, blows up Rhino killing a Grey knight, kills all but three of the squad in the Rhino, and wounds the Assassin.

Grey Knights move three warriors toward my objective, fails to bring in Paladins, and moves Termies w/ Libby to edge of ruin.

His firepower kills two more tactical marines on the side w/ the attack bike which is also destroyed. (he forgot to fire the Assassin)

 

The Battle- Turn Three

My three Marines on the left flank capture the objective and are backed up by the Raven. Libby Dreadnought moves towards the objective on the right and stops Grey Knight Libby's Shroud with his Hood.

My firepower kills his remaining Strike Squad men, obliterates the foul assassin, and fells a Terminator.

He moves his terminators onto the third objective near his ruin, and finally summons his Paladins who land 8 in. from my Devastators in the Three story ruin.

His Shooting kills four of five in the Combat squad on the predators right flank, and kills one Devastator w/ a bolter.

 

The Battle- Turn Four

I move my Raven near the Paladins and release the SG into Assault range, move the assault squad near that flank into assault range, and move the Dreadnought into Boil range of the Terminators.

My Shooting kills a Paladin and wounds all the others, and kills two more terminators, before boiling another.

My SG and Assault marines attack the Paladins, and his ridiculous psycho grenades make two of my SG attack their squad mates killing one. In the fight, I lose two SG and Two Marines, he loses three more Paladins and has a wound on his Grand Master, Stay in combat.

He doesn't move his terminators off his objective, and kills another Tactical marine holding my right flank objective with shooting.

 

The Battle- Turn Five

I move my Raven into flying position, and move my Assault Squad on the right flank onto the objective with the remaining Tactical Marines, Dread and Libby move to assault range of the Paladins.

My shooting kills three more Termies. He passes his Shroud power.

The Dread and Libby join the assault on the Paladins and Grand Master.

The end of the assault sees his last two Paladins fall, and his Grand Master reduced to one wound. I lose another Assault marine and another SG.

His turn is uneventful. He doesn't move and his shooting kills two assault marines on the right flank. The assault sees my Libby dead (curse those Nemesis Swords) and his Grand Master falls to my Librarian Dreadnoughts Force Weapon. (VENGANCE IS MINE!)

He Rolls for end of game, and it ends.

 

Conclusion--- Victory to the Lightning Warriors!

I held two objectives to his one, and had six kill points to his three.

 

 

Please feel free to ask questions and comments are welcome. For the Emperor!

[SevenExxes]

Awesome. Well done.

[shatter]

Nice and straight forward report.

 

Your opponent needs practice with his list and it's options I think.

 

Anyway, I hope he learns to make a game of it with you real soon. =)

[SincaiN]

Congrats on the win! Good to see the GKs take a beating :RTBBB:

[CaptainLNH]

Thanks Guys! He didn't seem prepared for BA to shoot him up. I got the impression from him that he kept expecting me to assualt him rather than sit on the objectives and shoot.

[Judaz]

Yes, good to see those fluffmurderers fall! :rolleyes:

 

Just one question, what do you mean by landed and flying position with the stormraven?

[CaptainLNH]

Judaz,

 

I mean to describe its current state, this case being whether or not the Raven is on the flying base, or landed on the ground. I landed it to hide it behind the ruin during deployment, and on my turn it retunred to flying positon on the stand.

 

Is that clear? Have you seen a model that uses a Flying Base?

[Brother-Captain Lucius]

Judaz,

 

I mean to describe its current state, this case being whether or not the Raven is on the flying base, or landed on the ground. I landed it to hide it behind the ruin during deployment, and on my turn it retunred to flying positon on the stand.

 

Is that clear? Have you seen a model that uses a Flying Base?

 

I'm afraid that that move was illegal. No skimmer may voluntarily land even if the model has landing gears.

[sp4rky]

Does this mean that a skimmer can't be behind cover? Or is it only in cover if it's hiding behind something that is tall enough to conceal it on it's stand?

[Brother-Captain Lucius]

Correct, a skimmer may only get a save if the terrain piece is big enough to cover half the model when on its flying base, unless it is immobilized and is ON the ground.

[CaptainLNH]

So if a skimmer cannot land, then the Sky Shield Landing pad and its rules are useless and fake (so why did they make rules allowing a vehicle that cannot land, to land?). And in the battle report in Feburary's WD, Matt Ward made an illegal move by landing his SR before releasing the Death Company. How could the rule writer make an illegal move, and publish it in the magazine for all to see?

 

I would very much like to know where in the rules you found that a skimmer cannot land, and that a vehicle with a flyign base must remain on the flying base at all times.

 

(Does this mean that a SR or Valkarie that is immoblized remains flying?)

 

(If so, then the Battle report in an issue of the WD a couple years ago made a serious error when they placed an immoblized Valkarie in a landed position.)

 

I also belive that GW should publish offical rules for the IG Valkarie, and the Stormraven, giving specifics about moving, shooting, arc of fire, etc.

[Brother-Captain Lucius]

So if a skimmer cannot land, then the Sky Shield Landing pad and its rules are useless and fake (so why did they make rules allowing a vehicle that cannot land, to land?). And in the battle report in Feburary's WD, Matt Ward made an illegal move by landing his SR before releasing the Death Company. How could the rule writer make an illegal move, and publish it in the magazine for all to see?

 

I would very much like to know where in the rules you found that a skimmer cannot land, and that a vehicle with a flyign base must remain on the flying base at all times.

 

(Does this mean that a SR or Valkarie that is immoblized remains flying?)

 

(If so, then the Battle report in an issue of the WD a couple years ago made a serious error when they placed an immoblized Valkarie in a landed position.)

 

I also belive that GW should publish offical rules for the IG Valkarie, and the Stormraven, giving specifics about moving, shooting, arc of fire, etc.

 

 

 

P.71 of the BRB: If a skimmer is immobilised or wrecked, its base is

removed, if possible. If this is not possible (the base

might have been glued in place, for example), don’t

worry about it. The skimmer’s anti-grav field is obviously

still working and an immobilised skimmer will simply

remain hovering in place, incapable of any further

movement (including turning on the spot); a wrecked

one is now a floating, burning wreck. Note that it is not

permitted to remove the flying stand other than in the

two cases above, as normally skimmers cannot land in

battle conditions. <_<

 

And also you never mentioned landing on the aquila pad which is always okay to land a skimmer on. Also i wouldnt trust everyhing you read in WD as even the writers get it wrong. In one game with BA in WD (cant remember which Issue) the DC were able to be controlled by a chaplain.

[shatter]

Don't worry for friendlies. Land, fly soar, make whooshing noises, all good.

 

But for a game with a new player from out of town talk first or, going to a tourney, assume the cold and hard rules of the BRB are king.

[Son Of Moriar]

Battle took place last Thursday at a GW, the Grey Knights Player was the Store Manager.[/i]

 

His firepower kills two three of my Tactical Marines, and wrecks my Vindicator with a Turbo Penetrator round score of Str. 18 and AP1.

 

Sorry but if he managed a str18 shop then the manager ain't playing properly; as far as I'm aware and everyone else I've spoken to str 10 is the most powerful shot in the game, so where did he pull a str18 from???? is this some new Grey Knight weapon we don't yet know about? I know they can increase strength by +1 but up to str18 Come on Guys!!

[Brother-Captain Lucius]

Battle took place last Thursday at a GW, the Grey Knights Player was the Store Manager.[/i]

 

His firepower kills two three of my Tactical Marines, and wrecks my Vindicator with a Turbo Penetrator round score of Str. 18 and AP1.

 

Sorry but if he managed a str18 shop then the manager ain't playing properly; as far as I'm aware and everyone else I've spoken to str 10 is the most powerful shot in the game, so where did he pull a str18 from???? is this some new Grey Knight weapon we don't yet know about? I know they can increase strength by +1 but up to str18 Come on Guys!!

 

I imagine he meant a score of 18 on the armour penetration roll as the Turbo-Penetrator round rolls 4 D6 for armour pen along with the rifles str of 3 against vehicles.

[Son Of Moriar]

Brother Captain; I know he meant armour penetration I was experimenting with Sarcasm! <_<

[Rybnick]

I believe the Vindicare Assassin's sniper rifle is now S3, AP1 and rending but also rolls 4D6 for armor penetration when it uses the Turbo Penetrator ammunition. So if my math (and memory) are correct they could potentially have a S30 shot when it comes to armor pet.

 

I'm a little fuzzy on how the rending rule would work on this though, since they roll 4D6 for armor penetration does that mean they could potentially rend 4 times? It seems to me that since it's only 1 shot it should only be able to rend once (as opposed to an assault canno which has 4 shots each with a chance to rend), but if it works where all armor pen dice can rend they could have a max of S39 for armor penetration. I expect this will be FaQ'ed one way or another whenever GW get's around to it. Hopefully they continue the trend of rather quick FaQ's

[shatter]

7(min 1st rend)+1+1+6(+? on second rend)+3=18+?

 

It doesn't matter. Any shot with two 6s auto-penetrates anything without a rend roll.

 

edit: I can't add.

[CaptainLNH]

Here is the information that has lead me AND the GW store manager to determine that flying vehicles (Valkyrie, Thunderhawk, Stormraven), can indeed land or "set down" wherever and when ever they want during their movement phase.

 

Quote from page 19 of the Planetsrike Rulebook, from the rules for the Skyshield Landing Pad-

 

"Vehicles may still land upon a shielded landing pad and embark/disembark passengers without hindrance." (WE decided that "may still land," means that the pad does not prohibit them from doing something they can already do... Land/Set down)

 

"[...] if the landing pad is unfurled when a vehicle with a transport capacity sets down upon it that vehicles passengers may still disembark freely, no matter how fast the vehicle moved that turn."

(We deicided that this was definite proof that a flying vehicle with a transport capacity (Valkyrie, Thunderhawk, Stormraven), has the ability to set down anywhere their is space for it to do so)

 

 

Having this proof written in the rules, and the support of a GW manager who knows 40k like the back of his hand, I have decided that it is legal for a Stormraven to land/set down during it's movement phase whether or not it is on a Pad.

 

If this has failed to convince you, then I am sorry. I for one will continue to have my SR land and take off at will.

[CaptainLNH]

By the way, the GW dude rolled 5,5,3,2 on his 4d6,+ 3str. = 18 armor penetration. No rending rolls made.

[Brother-Captain Lucius]

You could have informed me that ye were playing planetstrike and not using normal rulebook missions. In planetstrike its ok to land as you have the pad and what not but not when your playing regular missions and playing in tournaments its not permissible to land.

[CaptainLNH]

We were not playing a Planetstrike, but since their have not been any offical rules covering the movement of the Valkyrie or Stormraven (because they came out long after the current rulebook did), we decided that the rules I quoted heavily implied that they have certain special characteristics. Due to their unique tall bases, transport capacity, and physical landing gear, they are allowed to land so that units can legally embark/disembark. Otherwise, how could units get in or out?

[shatter]

The stand's base footprint determines egress ranges. Also there's, I think, no true access points with regard to embarking and debarking.

I'm fairly confident that's the way it's played on 'neutral ground'... although if anyone chimes up otherwise, I'd like to be corrected.

[Black Memories]

You could have informed me that ye were playing planetstrike and not using normal rulebook missions. In planetstrike its ok to land as you have the pad and what not but not when your playing regular missions and playing in tournaments its not permissible to land.

 

 

Agreed. Supplemental codexes that modify/change rules so they can enhance specific scenarios do work when using those rule sets, because other rules are used to off-set them in some way. However when playing a normal game those codexes/rules are almost always invalid (specifically in a tournament-type setting) unless ruled otherwise by your local tournament officials or agreed on before hand by the players when just doing a regular game.

 

Personally I hate the supplemental codexes, they tend to be written with something very specific in mind and tends to further unbalanced or break the game.

 

He's right though, in a normal game you cannot set down your SR unless wrecked or immobilized as the rules state. WD plays things wrong frequently, and the way the battle reports are written are usually very misleading in certain regards to either enhance their battle from a story perspective, or they rig it up to make a unit seem more productive than it is and thus hopefully increase sales.

[Judaz]

Having this proof written in the rules, and the support of a GW manager who knows 40k like the back of his hand, I have decided that it is legal for a Stormraven to land/set down during it's movement phase whether or not it is on a Pad.

 

If this has failed to convince you, then I am sorry. I for one will continue to have my SR land and take off at will.

I hate to tell you, but being a GW store manager doesn't automatically make you an expert on rules. Many times it seems to be the other way around. You are breaking the rules when you land the stormraven.

The rulebook is quite clear on how a skimmer works. There is not much room for loopholes.

 

You cannot land the raven, just imagine it doing a quick hover when the cargo jumps off, just like the Bell Huey did during the vietnam war.