Tactical Analysis Grey Knights vs. Space Marines

[hattusa]

I am a new Grey Knights player and longtime Space Marines player. I thought it would be great and helpful to the Space Marine community to compare and contrast Codex Space Marines (including blood Angels codex too) with Grey Knights to help players deciding between the two to pick an army as well as to highlight where one is weaker or stronger against a particular foe or tactic. Any one else willing to help make this thread a professional discussion of said tactical analysis? I would like to start with a comparison of the HQ choice for the various army lists.

[DarkGuard]

You might want to start by changing the name, I thought that this was a "how do we beat Grey Knights" thread, which we already have on the board :rolleyes:.

 

Anyway, I was looking through this thread earlier, and while it doesn't have comparisons between specific choices, there's some good stuff on the overall differences between the different armies: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...howtopic=228328

 

As for HQs, I think the important thing to note is that Grey Knight HQ choices tend to be more expensive due to them being in Terminator armour. However, is we look at the Libby, it has the Epistolary upgrade, plus Terminator armour for 150pts, a similar one in C:SM would be 175pts. Also, their Libby is more flexible with the ability to pick a wide range of abilities, although at a cost.

 

As for their Brother-Captains, they aren't that special compared to normal Captains, who can also claim a 2+/3++ save with S6 without needing to go in Terminators armour. Rad grenades are handy though.

 

The Grand Master is a good buy though, and much better than a Chapter Master, although many more points. However, for 200pts you have a guy with a 2+/4++ (3++ in combat) save, reserve manipulation, a master-crafted force sword with digi weapons and the ability to increase his strength and lower your toughness. Plus he can give special abilities to D3 units each game! Also, if you choose to upgrade him you not only get constant orbital bombardments, but you also get to pick and choose which ones you want. Much better than our Chapter Master, whose only job is to unlock Honour Guard.

 

Brotherhood Champions are useful Chaplains IMO, they come with a lightning claw (effectively), and have the ability to stall squads, destroy them, and insta kill characters. And they let one squad re-roll wounds.

 

Inquisitors are interesting choices, unlocking Henchmen while fulfilling your HQ choice for a budget points value. They help bring a new dimension to the list, something we can only do by using SCs that cost upwards of 160pts.

 

All in all, Grey Knight HQs are better than ours (although they don't have Null Zone), but are priced accordingly, costing many more points. Therefore, this impacts on their army by making them take less men. A tooled up Grand Master or Libby (probably the two preferred choices) will cost 200pts and between 150-190pts respectively, a Space Marine list can have a Libby for 100pts, letting them get more men. That being said Grey Knights can also do this with a 35-65pts Inquisitor, but then they lose the combat prowess of the previous two.

[ashc]

The brother-captain option is, much like the marine captain, a poor choice. Both bad in their respective army books, where you may as well pay the points to upgrade to a master or special character, or take the almost too useful librarian!

[MagicMan]

A Captain isn't a poor choice in a marine army...

 

 

Infact hes better than the chapter master, unless you want honour guard.

[DarkGuard]

A Captain isn't a poor choice in a marine army...

 

 

Infact hes better than the chapter master, unless you want honour guard.

 

This. The only things the Chapter Master brings is Orbital Bombardment and the Honour Guard. Most of the time OB isn't that great, it scatters full 2D6", and is one shot on a model you want in combat. You can't move if you want to fire it, although you can assault, but why would you risk that? Most of the time to fire it means having him in backfield or stalling your advance as you fire it out of a Rhino. If you could move and not assault it might have been more useful.

 

As things go, you take the Chapter Master for the Honour Guard, who I now rate above the Command squad in combat. Whether you want to pay the points is your choice.

 

What this means is that the Master/Captain relationship in the two Codices is reversed, with many people preferring the GM in Grey Knights and the Captain in C:SM. In both Codices it's worth noting that the Librarian is a solid option.