Gv0zD Posted April 29, 2011 Share Posted April 29, 2011 The mighty Inquisition ideed works in mysterious ways :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228617-the-case-for-purgators/page/2/#findComment-2741081 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeathKorpsman Posted April 29, 2011 Share Posted April 29, 2011 Becuase Purifiers do that job better (as mentioned above), and don't take your Heavy slot, and can potentially be made Scoring without TGS. It seems the best use of Purgation squads is Scouting them in a Rhino with a TH. But if you want that, you could always use Mystics. Sure, they can't get scout, but who needs it for TH deployment? The only 1st turn DS we can get is Mordrak, who doesn't scatter anyway. Everything else is turn 2+, which is more than enough time to get your Chimeras where you want them. Why can't Mystics get Scout the same way? The GM's ability can be used on any infantry/walker/MC/jumper unit in the army. Henchman warbands should be included. Am I missing something? Still, I don't think anyone is really arguing that Purgation Squads are bad. Some people, me included, just don't think they are anything to get excited about. If you are playing a smaller game where perhaps 3 psyrifle dreads is too expensive or unnecessary, then perhaps a 5 man Purgation Squad with Incinerators in a Rhino is a good choice (though they're still around the same price with the transport). Scouting Teleport Homers is the best use of them I've heard so far, though as was pointed out it really isn't necessary. Two turns is plenty of time to get a Mystic, other TeleHomers, or a pick a Skull to home in on for your Deep Strikers. Scouting Purgation Squads is just making them the first transport and squad to get squished. The sad thing about Incinerators in a Purgation Squad is that weapon really doesn't take advantage of their power. If you are going to take them, get some use out of it. Being able to hide and shoot stuff is nice for GK because we are pretty fragile against shooting. Being completely out of sight is a huge plus. If someone wanted to take them in a list, I'd say go for it. They are solid, when matched with good supporting units. I probably won't use them myself, but that is a personal thing. Psyrifle dreads all the way. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228617-the-case-for-purgators/page/2/#findComment-2741143 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted April 29, 2011 Share Posted April 29, 2011 The Grand Strategy cn't be used on Ghost Knights, or Henchmen. :tu: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228617-the-case-for-purgators/page/2/#findComment-2741145 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prathios Posted April 29, 2011 Share Posted April 29, 2011 First of all, let me introduce myself. I'm not a GK plater, nor I plan on being one. But my mate decided to run a GK army. I've borrowed his dex to get acquianted with his army, and Purgation squads attracted my attention. Now, that I've read this hread I see that people find them not very useful. Aren't 4 cheap incinerators,added by force swords and storm bolters a good anti horde unit? From what I've in dex, purgation squad can be effective against orks, nids and similar horde lists. Surely, you have to give up a valuable heavy supprt slot (or two), but they may help a lot. Am I missing something? Actually I have to agree with this statement. Against a horde army you could take purifiers and purgation squads. If I'm playing daemons or nids why would I want to use my heavy support on dreads???? A small squad of uber psy/flame power would be a much better choice. I really don't see the downside against horde armies to using purgation units. I think one of the main problems the poor purgation squad has is that most of the people on this board are absolutely addicted to psyflmen and purifiers. Those two things pop up in every thread by someone saying, "well just take (insert one of the two terms here) and you'll win every game, no other unit in the dex is worth using unless you're an idiot." It get's a little old. Purgation squads have a place, try them out. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228617-the-case-for-purgators/page/2/#findComment-2741162 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Captain Kezef Posted April 29, 2011 Share Posted April 29, 2011 First of all, let me introduce myself. I'm not a GK plater, nor I plan on being one. But my mate decided to run a GK army. I've borrowed his dex to get acquianted with his army, and Purgation squads attracted my attention. Now, that I've read this hread I see that people find them not very useful. Aren't 4 cheap incinerators,added by force swords and storm bolters a good anti horde unit? From what I've in dex, purgation squad can be effective against orks, nids and similar horde lists. Surely, you have to give up a valuable heavy supprt slot (or two), but they may help a lot. Am I missing something? Actually I have to agree with this statement. Against a horde army you could take purifiers and purgation squads. If I'm playing daemons or nids why would I want to use my heavy support on dreads???? A small squad of uber psy/flame power would be a much better choice. I really don't see the downside against horde armies to using purgation units. I think one of the main problems the poor purgation squad has is that most of the people on this board are absolutely addicted to psyflmen and purifiers. Those two things pop up in every thread by someone saying, "well just take (insert one of the two terms here) and you'll win every game, no other unit in the dex is worth using unless you're an idiot." It get's a little old. Purgation squads have a place, try them out. Yeah, I have similar issues with paladins. So many people go on about them being the best ting since TWC, personaly i don't see them as a valid option. That's the thing about 40k, so many optons for every playstyle. I welcome open discussions of tactics but get annoyed with "unit x beats unit y, you are a fool if you can't see it" style arguments. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228617-the-case-for-purgators/page/2/#findComment-2741188 Share on other sites More sharing options...
breng77 Posted April 29, 2011 Share Posted April 29, 2011 Actually I have to agree with this statement. Against a horde army you could take purifiers and purgation squads. If I'm playing daemons or nids why would I want to use my heavy support on dreads???? A small squad of uber psy/flame power would be a much better choice. I really don't see the downside against horde armies to using purgation units. Because when most people review the usefulness of a unit it is not against a specific build (list tailoring being a no-no in competitive play) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228617-the-case-for-purgators/page/2/#findComment-2741194 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gv0zD Posted April 29, 2011 Share Posted April 29, 2011 When I read the GKdex, I found it strange that 'heavy' purgation squad can take cheaper icenerators (assault type weapon), while 'troop' grey knights can take cheaper psilencers (heavy type weapon). I'm talking of costs, as I'm not good with GK units' synergy. On the other hand in makes some sense. You have incinerators in a unit that is not scoring and it's role is plain:burn! And the scoring units are better be equipped with heavy weapns and will sit on objective, not letting anyone near. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228617-the-case-for-purgators/page/2/#findComment-2741201 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Captain Kezef Posted April 29, 2011 Share Posted April 29, 2011 Actually I have to agree with this statement. Against a horde army you could take purifiers and purgation squads. If I'm playing daemons or nids why would I want to use my heavy support on dreads???? A small squad of uber psy/flame power would be a much better choice. I really don't see the downside against horde armies to using purgation units. Because when most people review the usefulness of a unit it is not against a specific build (list tailoring being a no-no in competitive play) It's not so much specific builds per se. As I mentioned a purgation squad has clear advantages over a purifier unit when you take into account teleport-heavy synergies. the flavour of the month is for purifiers and dreads, we'll see how lists evolves over the coming months. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228617-the-case-for-purgators/page/2/#findComment-2741203 Share on other sites More sharing options...
breng77 Posted April 29, 2011 Share Posted April 29, 2011 However, the quote in question mentioned not taking specific units against specific armies which is list tailoring. In Which case against daemons Why would I take any purgators when they don't have warp quake, and with enough Warp Quake going first against daemons is damn near auto win. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228617-the-case-for-purgators/page/2/#findComment-2741304 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashe Darke Posted April 29, 2011 Share Posted April 29, 2011 Actually I have to agree with this statement. Against a horde army you could take purifiers and purgation squads. If I'm playing daemons or nids why would I want to use my heavy support on dreads???? A small squad of uber psy/flame power would be a much better choice. I really don't see the downside against horde armies to using purgation units. I've only played daemons with my GKs once so far but the Psyfle Dreads were the most effective thing in the list short of Warp Quake. Most MCs are wounded on 2s so I was just dropping them really easily. In that game they killed a Soul Grinder, Blood Thirster, Daemon Prince and 3 Blood Crushers. So yeah the Dreads weren't exactly bad :( Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228617-the-case-for-purgators/page/2/#findComment-2741627 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prathios Posted April 29, 2011 Share Posted April 29, 2011 However, the quote in question mentioned not taking specific units against specific armies which is list tailoring. In Which case against daemons Why would I take any purgators when they don't have warp quake, and with enough Warp Quake going first against daemons is damn near auto win. Because you want to play him again? If you warp quake spam a daemon player you're liable to never play them again. The daemon codex needs a ton of work and this takes far to much advantage of that weakness. My best friend plays daemons and I would never do that to him. Back when I had a 3rd ed codex... you know a couple months ago... I didn't take sanctuary on him either. It's an instant win but sometimes we don't do it cause it's not very sportsmanlike. Yeah I'm taking a SS but not 6 of them. Furthermore on the MC debate. A daemon player who has seen our new dex isn't going to take that many MCs. Because honestly we can kill them way to easily. A single wound in CC from any of our troops can make a bloodthirster take a ld check and if failed, die. Our psycannons gun down MCs like they are going out of style. So really, against an opponent that knows better you wont have much target saturation for stuff with a psyfleman. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228617-the-case-for-purgators/page/2/#findComment-2741704 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freman Bloodglaive Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 I think my bitz box army will use some second edition devastators with heavy bolters as psycannon purgators. Just throw in a power weapons model with a storm bolter as the Justicar. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228617-the-case-for-purgators/page/2/#findComment-2742205 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimtooth Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 Battlefoam will be my case for Purgators since if I were to buy them, that is where they would be while I fielded my 3 rifle dreads. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228617-the-case-for-purgators/page/2/#findComment-2742749 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmande Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 4 Incinerators and a Psy-Razorback is not a bad way to spend 150pts, all told. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228617-the-case-for-purgators/page/2/#findComment-2742954 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitefireinferno Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 Yeah I really would not bother with them Personally when your riflemen are so great and If I did want something like them I would just combat squad Purifiers into a shooty unit and choppy unit I don't much care for the give my opponents a cover save power either so that's just my thoughts. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228617-the-case-for-purgators/page/2/#findComment-2742980 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HB66 Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 i was thinking of running a 6 man, psycannon Purg squad in a psybolt assauly cannon raz - jet up the side of the board and work my way back. - maybe take a teleport homer to tele in some support if i need it thoughts??? HB66 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228617-the-case-for-purgators/page/2/#findComment-2742988 Share on other sites More sharing options...
breng77 Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 Because you want to play him again? If you warp quake spam a daemon player you're liable to never play them again. The daemon codex needs a ton of work and this takes far to much advantage of that weakness. My best friend plays daemons and I would never do that to him. Back when I had a 3rd ed codex... you know a couple months ago... I didn't take sanctuary on him either. It's an instant win but sometimes we don't do it cause it's not very sportsmanlike. Yeah I'm taking a SS but not 6 of them. Furthermore on the MC debate. A daemon player who has seen our new dex isn't going to take that many MCs. Because honestly we can kill them way to easily. A single wound in CC from any of our troops can make a bloodthirster take a ld check and if failed, die. Our psycannons gun down MCs like they are going out of style. So really, against an opponent that knows better you wont have much target saturation for stuff with a psyfleman. Except that in a tournament environment every player is building a list for all comers so it is likely that the Daemon player will still run the same list he normally would, to face other armies, and not change just in case he ran into GKs. For the same reason I would never run Warp Quake spam, or no take Rifleman, because I am building a list to face all comers, a majority of which are going to be mechanized. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228617-the-case-for-purgators/page/2/#findComment-2743802 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prathios Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 Because you want to play him again? If you warp quake spam a daemon player you're liable to never play them again. The daemon codex needs a ton of work and this takes far to much advantage of that weakness. My best friend plays daemons and I would never do that to him. Back when I had a 3rd ed codex... you know a couple months ago... I didn't take sanctuary on him either. It's an instant win but sometimes we don't do it cause it's not very sportsmanlike. Yeah I'm taking a SS but not 6 of them. Furthermore on the MC debate. A daemon player who has seen our new dex isn't going to take that many MCs. Because honestly we can kill them way to easily. A single wound in CC from any of our troops can make a bloodthirster take a ld check and if failed, die. Our psycannons gun down MCs like they are going out of style. So really, against an opponent that knows better you wont have much target saturation for stuff with a psyfleman. Except that in a tournament environment every player is building a list for all comers so it is likely that the Daemon player will still run the same list he normally would, to face other armies, and not change just in case he ran into GKs. For the same reason I would never run Warp Quake spam, or no take Rifleman, because I am building a list to face all comers, a majority of which are going to be mechanized. Well I didn't realize we were allowed to pick the environment for this debate. In which case I'm picking friendly because it makes up the vast majority of games played in 40k. The tourny circuit is a very tiny percentage of games in 40k. I take a general list in friendly games as well for the most part though. I make exceptions for certain tactics but I don't build the entire list with the purpose of abusing my opponent. If I know I am fighting daemons I wont warp quake spam because I want to play my friend again. Aside from that daemons don't have a lot of options on what to take in their lists because they always have to deepstrike and they have a handful of truly decent units. Anyway I don't think you're actually arguing with me, just a miscommunication. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228617-the-case-for-purgators/page/2/#findComment-2743809 Share on other sites More sharing options...
breng77 Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 Well I didn't realize we were allowed to pick the environment for this debate. In which case I'm picking friendly because it makes up the vast majority of games played in 40k. The tourny circuit is a very tiny percentage of games in 40k. I take a general list in friendly games as well for the most part though. I make exceptions for certain tactics but I don't build the entire list with the purpose of abusing my opponent. If I know I am fighting daemons I wont warp quake spam because I want to play my friend again. I am fine with that, but like you I always tend to take the same list regardless of opponent, so saying I would take x unit against hordes does not jive with my list creation/ I do disagree about the tourney circut being a tiny percentage though but maybe that is just my perception. Tourneys make up a majority of the games I play (as I play at least one a month and it makes up at least half of the games I play each month.), and in games where I am not playing at a tourney I am playing with lists that I would take to a tourney so I can test out new ideas. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228617-the-case-for-purgators/page/2/#findComment-2744412 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellgore Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 First time post here... I personally like two squads of 5 men purgs in a rhino with 2 incinerators and 2 psycannons and a teleport homer. They rush forward giving some suppression fire and make for secure deepstrikes of my termies, interceptors and strike squads. backed up with only one psyfledread and a vindicare my list was much more fun to play these days as the dull and soooo boring psyback/psyfle-spam you see vomitted all over the internet. I have footsloggers and only few vehicles - so what? With a secure way to deepstrike you really don't need vehicles as GK cause your firepower is just so astounding within 24" and deepstriking provides you to get to your opponent without being shot at on the way there. Everything serves its purpose to win the game eventually. So far no losses :P As some here already said: IMHO it's a question of army synergy. I can make really good use out of these two minimized purg squads with the options they provide. And with choosing 2 of each special weapons I don't waste points or weapons due to missing firepoints. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228617-the-case-for-purgators/page/2/#findComment-2748930 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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