9K Painting Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 How do you build you vanguards? Tried a DoA list tonight and made a few fatal mistakes, mainly not having any VV's So pics and ideas more than welcome <_< Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228633-vanguard/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
daboarder Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 Ten vets, 2 PW's 2 PF's usually does me, I can combat squad if I want to and they are usually dropped near my DSing priests so grab a FC and FNP. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228633-vanguard/#findComment-2740557 Share on other sites More sharing options...
shatter Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 Very popular topic here. Do a search for a million references. To break it down quickly... two schools of thought on JP Vanguard for Heroic Intervention. 1. Full on kill -PWs on as many as possible for the points allocated them their role + 1TH! 2. tie 'em up -1 PF/TH, the rest bp & CCW To expand on each a little. 1. (as I like to resolve stuff quickly and in my favor.) Sgt Glaive LC, bp Mbombs LC, bp PW, Mbombs PW, bp TH. 6 models, 'all different which makes them a little more survivable than if all the same and one can lean rerolls at ICs if opportunity presents), able to charge/multicharge vehicles and infantry. 2. Sgt TH 9 vets with CC & Bp. 10 models so can combat squad at deployment from reserves or stay as a 10 man and charge/multicharge commonly devas and hurt them enough to stay in combat and slowly win. A slightly less popular approach is to throw storm shields on some of either 'philosophy' to allow them to tie up harder units by having a TH/LC SS guy or two keep lasting. A popularly perceived problem with this is it's not as killy (per marine price) as per approach 1. Nor does it add anything versus targets like devastators for approach 2. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228633-vanguard/#findComment-2740579 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mykra Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 How do you build you vanguards? Tried a DoA list tonight and made a few fatal mistakes, mainly not having any VV's So pics and ideas more than welcome B) I use two versions and play almost exclusively at the 1750 range: I) Two squads of five: Glaive Sgt, PF, 2 PW's, 1 CS. II} One ultra-elite unit of five men: PF and SS on Sgt, 4 LC's and SS. I break out the ultra-elite unit for when I know I'm going to face armies with some seriously dead-killy units that I either need to be able to bog down until help arrives, or try to knock the spit out of them with the VV, or when I run the Sanguinor. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228633-vanguard/#findComment-2740581 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 I've just recently started running this: 7 Vanguard. Sergeant has a Glaive and Storm Shield. 1 Vanguard with Thunder hammer or pair of lightning claws depending on my mood 1 with Fist and Storm Shield 4 with no upgrades. A bit more killy than the simple version shatter suggested, but not as expensive as the super killy version. I can expand to a larger version by bringing both the hammer and claws guy, or with a few extra points could cut a regular guy and bring both combat weapon upgrades. This could also be run as 6 guys, dropping 2 with out upgrades for the and adding the guy with the pair of claws but right now I prefer 7 bodies to 6. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228633-vanguard/#findComment-2740602 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainLNH Posted April 29, 2011 Share Posted April 29, 2011 Whenever possible, I use two 5 man VV squads, with each having one pair of LC, four PWs, two plasma pistols, and two storm shields. Somtimes in Appocylpse, I put all of them in one squad, and give them all melta bombs. It makes Super Heavys go BOOMBOOM! :huh: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228633-vanguard/#findComment-2740674 Share on other sites More sharing options...
daboarder Posted April 29, 2011 Share Posted April 29, 2011 If your running 2 squads of 5 you should ALWYS run them as a 10 it cost the exact same in points, frees a FA slot and adds a sheadload of tactical options. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228633-vanguard/#findComment-2740700 Share on other sites More sharing options...
vharing Posted April 29, 2011 Share Posted April 29, 2011 If your running 2 squads of 5 you should ALWYS run them as a 10 it cost the exact same in points, frees a FA slot and adds a sheadload of tactical options. Actually by running 2 squads you get 1 free PW or glavie encarmine. I run serge with glavie encarmine, 2 with power weapon bolt pistol, 2 with plasma pistol chainsword , 2 with pairs of lightning claws. I am thinking of filling the rest in with storm shields and either chain swords, power weapons, or power fists. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228633-vanguard/#findComment-2740712 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted April 29, 2011 Share Posted April 29, 2011 If your running 2 squads of 5 you should ALWYS run them as a 10 it cost the exact same in points, frees a FA slot and adds a sheadload of tactical options. Actually by running 2 squads you get 1 free PW or glavie encarmine. I run serge with glavie encarmine, 2 with power weapon bolt pistol, 2 with plasma pistol chainsword , 2 with pairs of lightning claws. I am thinking of filling the rest in with storm shields and either chain swords, power weapons, or power fists. You don't get a free power weapon. The cost is just built in to the Vanguard. Taking 10 with 2 power weapons or 2 squads of 5 each with 1 power weapon costs the same. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228633-vanguard/#findComment-2740717 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadieau Posted April 29, 2011 Share Posted April 29, 2011 I'm only using them in Apocalyps. I run 6 man units with Jump Packs, PF, x5 Infernus Pistols, Melta Bombs and Storm Shields all around. They make great super heavy hunters! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228633-vanguard/#findComment-2740764 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gv0zD Posted April 29, 2011 Share Posted April 29, 2011 You should check the same topic in BA resource section. As for the unit's composition, I also like them to be killy. My latest combo is the following: TH+SS, LC+SS, LC or PW, 2xCCW+BP. 2 such squads worth 500pts in total. Hard as nails. Deadly as a hammer :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228633-vanguard/#findComment-2740843 Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdeptusTerminautus Posted April 29, 2011 Share Posted April 29, 2011 I only run mine in 2.5k games, as i like to have a lot of shooting power with my flesh tearers. But when i do i run a 5 man all claws unit, it cost a hefty 300, but it gets whatever you want dead, well dead. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228633-vanguard/#findComment-2740971 Share on other sites More sharing options...
gustmic Posted April 29, 2011 Share Posted April 29, 2011 You may want to look at the following thread to see various combos that you can run. It's quite a good intro to Vanguards. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228633-vanguard/#findComment-2741003 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gv0zD Posted April 29, 2011 Share Posted April 29, 2011 You may want to look at the following thread to see various combos that you can run. It's quite a good intro to Vanguards. The link doesn't work <_< Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228633-vanguard/#findComment-2741005 Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGPO Posted April 29, 2011 Share Posted April 29, 2011 I've just recently started running this: 7 Vanguard. Sergeant has a Glaive and Storm Shield. 1 Vanguard with Thunder hammer or pair of lightning claws depending on my mood 1 with Fist and Storm Shield 4 with no upgrades. A bit more killy than the simple version shatter suggested, but not as expensive as the super killy version. I can expand to a larger version by bringing both the hammer and claws guy, or with a few extra points could cut a regular guy and bring both combat weapon upgrades. This could also be run as 6 guys, dropping 2 with out upgrades for the and adding the guy with the pair of claws but right now I prefer 7 bodies to 6. How does the sergeant use both his glaive and storm shield? Surely the glaive is a two-handed weapon? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228633-vanguard/#findComment-2741334 Share on other sites More sharing options...
shatter Posted April 29, 2011 Share Posted April 29, 2011 There are no rules or limitations beyond specific entries for two handed weapons. eg, THammers don't get an additional CC attack for a pistol... yet a model can have two of such special weapons for an extra attack. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228633-vanguard/#findComment-2741354 Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdeptusTerminautus Posted April 29, 2011 Share Posted April 29, 2011 I've just recently started running this: 7 Vanguard. Sergeant has a Glaive and Storm Shield. 1 Vanguard with Thunder hammer or pair of lightning claws depending on my mood 1 with Fist and Storm Shield 4 with no upgrades. A bit more killy than the simple version shatter suggested, but not as expensive as the super killy version. I can expand to a larger version by bringing both the hammer and claws guy, or with a few extra points could cut a regular guy and bring both combat weapon upgrades. This could also be run as 6 guys, dropping 2 with out upgrades for the and adding the guy with the pair of claws but right now I prefer 7 bodies to 6. How does the sergeant use both his glaive and storm shield? Surely the glaive is a two-handed weapon? It states in the C:SM FAQ that a model can use both a relic blade and a storm shield. So a Model can 9/10 use a glaive and storm shield, there isn't an actual FAQ to it, But see the first sentence of my reply for the closest you can get to it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228633-vanguard/#findComment-2741661 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leksington Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 Remember that BA pay 5 points more per SS than vanilla marines do. So know that you are getting a worse value out of SS than than you should be. Other reasons not to take SS: -VV aren't scoring units so you don't neccessarily need them to survive into the end game. -I usually try to Heroicly Intevene into shooty units, not units brimming with power weapons. Personally, I'll only put a storm shield on the sergeant if I'm running the Sanguinor (and hoping for his blessing to fall on the VV sergeant). Then again, there is the coolness factor of fielding the only model who can show up with a GE and a SS. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228633-vanguard/#findComment-2741903 Share on other sites More sharing options...
robot530 Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 I'm going to be building a VV squad for the Heroic Intervention bonus. I want to run it as a 5man squad or option to combat squad a 10man squad. I was thinking about sarg having PF and the other 4 having single LCs. I would arm the additional combat squad the same. So considering the combat squads individually, that would be 8 LC attacks reroll wounds and 2 PF attacks (Charging 12 LC and 3 PF?) What do you guys think? Does this sound killy for the 235 or so points per combat squad or am I missing something? Thanks in advance. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228633-vanguard/#findComment-2751769 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Descendant of Dante Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 Does this sound killy for the 235 or so points per combat squad or am I missing something? Sounds overkilly to me. Who are you gonna be up against with that unit. Save some points for other units in your list. I always feel better with a unit that will not decimate an enemy squad in one assualt phase thus locking them up into your opponents assualt phase where you can finish them off. This way you avoid being targeted in there shooting phase, then on your next turn you are free to target another enemy squad or take apprpriate cover as needed. Unless this ubersquad is for Apocalypse, drop a few LC's. Get some shooty death in the unit as well. More options tactically. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228633-vanguard/#findComment-2751779 Share on other sites More sharing options...
robot530 Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 Not for Apocalypse! Heh. Maybe I will try PF sarg and 2 single LC to start. That drops the points by 30 for a five man squad. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228633-vanguard/#findComment-2751792 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nathan Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 as for model wise i made captains for each company of my storm angels and any of them that have jumppacks also double as vets in my vanguard squad as well as a few extra marines. ill try to get you some piccys and post them here later. im hoping to replace my tactical squad in my 1500points list with a 5man squad. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228633-vanguard/#findComment-2751917 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt. Blood Donator Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 To people who have played at G.W-sanctioned tournies (we don't have them in Sweden I believe), how have you been allowed to use combat squads and deep strike in combination with this unit? Do they: a: roll a single reserve roll and enter at 2 places b: roll a single reserve roll, enter at the same place and split c: not allowed to combat squad d: something else? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228633-vanguard/#findComment-2751939 Share on other sites More sharing options...
gustmic Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 You may want to look at the following thread to see various combos that you can run. It's quite a good intro to Vanguards. The link doesn't work <_< It was down, but it now seems to be up. /gustmic Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228633-vanguard/#findComment-2752026 Share on other sites More sharing options...
gustmic Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 You may want to look at the following thread to see various combos that you can run. It's quite a good intro to Vanguards. The link doesn't work <_< It was down, but it now seems to be up. /gustmic Somehow, the colon (from the http) was removed. Try this. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/228633-vanguard/#findComment-2752028 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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