3 Psyrifle Dreadnoughts

[Grimtooth]

I would first ask what makes 3 rifle dreads cheesy?

 

Seriously, cheesy seems to be the flavor most cried by those that can't deal with something. Thunderlord, CHEESE! Long Fangs, CHEESE! Vulkan Hmmernators, CHEESE! White Scars outflanking, CHEESE! Rifle dreads, CHEESE!

[Brother Captain Kezef]

I would first ask what makes 3 rifle dreads cheesy?

 

Seriously, cheesy seems to be the flavor most cried by those that can't deal with something. Thunderlord, CHEESE! Long Fangs, CHEESE! Vulkan Hmmernators, CHEESE! White Scars outflanking, CHEESE! Rifle dreads, CHEESE!

 

What's cheesey about dreads with str 8 AP4 guns? I have psycannon packing terminators

[veidin]

My 1850 fields a Land Raider, 2 Psyflemen Dreads and a Ven Psyflemen Dread. I enjoy a nice platter of different cheeses. Nomnomnom!

[Brother Captain Kezef]

My 1850 fields a Land Raider, 2 Psyflemen Dreads and a Ven Psyflemen Dread. I enjoy a nice platter of different cheeses. Nomnomnom!

 

That list will stop being fun when you run into competent DE

[The Holy Heretic]

A good pointer for answering questions like these is that if you've got to ask, you probably already know the answer. ;)

 

-

 

Personally, I couldn't care less. I'd never field such a list myself, as I like to have a variety of models on my table, and neither would I relish to play against such a spam list. To me the game is an excuse to show off your cool models, and winning holds no value in itself.

[Chengar Qordath]

I would first ask what makes 3 rifle dreads cheesy?

 

Seriously, cheesy seems to be the flavor most cried by those that can't deal with something. Thunderlord, CHEESE! Long Fangs, CHEESE! Vulkan Hmmernators, CHEESE! White Scars outflanking, CHEESE! Rifle dreads, CHEESE!

I have to agree with that point; as I mentioned upthread, the psyfleman is a fairly narrow unit. It's really good at killing light and medium vehicles (one of the best units in the game at that role), but is mediocre at best in any other role, and can easily be tarpitted or countered by a similarly-focused unit like a combi-pred. I think psyfleman spam is probably a bad move list-wise; it makes an unbalanced army that could crush an opponent that relies on light-medium vehicles, but would be at a major disadvantage vs. hordes, MC heavy forces, footslogging MEQ, or armies with lots of AV 14.

[Zhukov]

My 1850 fields a Land Raider, 2 Psyflemen Dreads and a Ven Psyflemen Dread. I enjoy a nice platter of different cheeses. Nomnomnom!

 

That list will stop being fun when you run into competent DE

I dunno man, DE isn't really fond of Av12; don't stare yourself blind at the Land Raiders -_-

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

True most dark lances don't gain any advantage versus AV12 in terms dropping it's armor value but S8 is not bad at all. What dark eldar really don't like is all the twin linked S8 shots coming their way as it is a nightmare versus their raiders. It's really bad news for them.

 

G -_-

[Brother Captain Kezef]

True most dark lances don't gain any advantage versus AV12 in terms dropping it's armor value but S8 is not bad at all. What dark eldar really don't like is all the twin linked S8 shots coming their way as it is a nightmare versus their raiders. It's really bad news for them.

 

G -_-

 

if they sabre dance properly they can stay out of range untill your dreads are scrap,or drop scourges on to them. The only army i actualy fear is DE, they can break our toys in a shockingly short amount of time.

[Ashe Darke]

MC heavy forces

I don't know man most MCs are T6 so it's 2s to wound. You hand someone 10 armour saves they're bound to fail a fair few. My experience of Dreads vs MCs has been very good so far.

[Zhukov]

True most dark lances don't gain any advantage versus AV12 in terms dropping it's armor value but S8 is not bad at all. What dark eldar really don't like is all the twin linked S8 shots coming their way as it is a nightmare versus their raiders. It's really bad news for them.

 

G

 

if they sabre dance properly they can stay out of range untill your dreads are scrap,or drop scourges on to them. The only army i actualy fear is DE, they can break our toys in a shockingly short amount of time.

It's an interesting matchup. However; DE can't stay out of range of Dreadnoughts, unless you somewhat...er... I dunno, place them in a corner clumped together and leave them there? :P They trouble even more with Ven dreads. Deepstriking Scourges is nice and well; but Warpquake is the obvious answer here. Just move your (ven) dreads up with your GKSS into midfield or keep 1 squad near them if it's needed.

[Brother Captain Kezef]

True most dark lances don't gain any advantage versus AV12 in terms dropping it's armor value but S8 is not bad at all. What dark eldar really don't like is all the twin linked S8 shots coming their way as it is a nightmare versus their raiders. It's really bad news for them.

 

G

 

if they sabre dance properly they can stay out of range untill your dreads are scrap,or drop scourges on to them. The only army i actualy fear is DE, they can break our toys in a shockingly short amount of time.

It's an interesting matchup. However; DE can't stay out of range of Dreadnoughts, unless you somewhat...er... I dunno, place them in a corner clumped together and leave them there? :P They trouble even more with Ven dreads. Deepstriking Scourges is nice and well; but Warpquake is the obvious answer here. Just move your (ven) dreads up with your GKSS into midfield or keep 1 squad near them if it's needed.

 

careful use of cover and their annoying range reducing upgrades will leave you chasing ghosts.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Nightshield is not that great to be honest and the psifleman has an effective range of 52". Basically dark eldar skimmers have to jump from LOS blocking terrain to more LOS blocking terrain. Venoms with Trueborn armed with four blasters is going to be a challenge though.

 

G

[DeathKorpsman]

Nightshield is not that great to be honest and the psifleman has an effective range of 52". Basically dark eldar skimmers have to jump from LOS blocking terrain to more LOS blocking terrain. Venoms with Trueborn armed with four blasters is going to be a challenge though.

 

G

 

Don't you mean 54" (6M+48AC range)?

 

Against the Psyrifle, yeah Nightshield is not that big a deal unless you are targeting across table quarters. It isn't cheesy to take something that is super good at doing one thing for a reasonable price. Is it cheesy to take three Hammerheads or Broadsides since they aren't too expensive and are crazy good at doing what they do (popping AV14's like it's hot)? A pair of Broadsides or a Railhead is about the price of a Psyrifle Dread and fulfills their role about as well for the points, if not better. Psyrifle Dreads might be the best in the game at popping AV12> vehicles, but as it has been pointed out they really aren't as good at anything else. Against nids they will be partially useful against certain units, like warriors or MC's, but probably won't earn their points back in that game. But for the armies that they are good against, they are worth their points in gold and I'd take them every time in an all-comers list.

[Wildfire]

Neither philosophy is wrong, but they often clash

 

^This. I don't dislike players that play fluffy at the cost competitiveness, but I certainly enjoy playing people with hard lists more.

[Chengar Qordath]

MC heavy forces

I don't know man most MCs are T6 so it's 2s to wound. You hand someone 10 armour saves they're bound to fail a fair few. My experience of Dreads vs MCs has been very good so far.

True; the psyfleman is capable of engaging MCs, but it is not ideal in that role unless your opponent has bad luck on his armor saves. If you're up against a 'Nid-zilla list, you're likely to end up wishing you had a bit more variety in your list.

[Prathios]

Neither philosophy is wrong, but they often clash

 

^This. I don't dislike players that play fluffy at the cost competitiveness, but I certainly enjoy playing people with hard lists more.

 

What I think is a bit funny is the idea that a persons list has the majority say in how much fun he/she is to play. Would not the generalship of a player be more important to that than anything? I can take a very weak list onto the battlefield as fluffed up as I can make it, and yet still make anyone work for the points if the dice are even.

 

A player makes the list, but also has to command it.

[Zhukov]

careful use of cover and their annoying range reducing upgrades will leave you chasing ghosts.

You gonna try and hide your army the whole game? Good luck lol.

 

 

Psyfleman against Nids: You kidding me? They beat Warriors and Hive Guard and WILL cause wounds on MC's too... What else you want? Ap3 haha?

[BrotherWasted]

AP3 would be pretty awesome. Honestly, though, I would have loved to see Grey Knight Dreads get access to Cyclone or Typhoon Missile Launchers instead.

 

Psy-rifleman beat horde armies just in general. There isn't much in a Nid or Ork list where the Rifleman's firepower wouldn't be welcome against.

 

Rifleman beat more than just Warriors or MCs. They Instant Death Shrikes, Zoanthropes, Biovores, Lictors, Deathleapers,Raveners, and most of the special characters too like Parasite of Mortrex and Doom of Malan'tai.

[antique_nova]

So, if you have a list that no one enjoys playing against, I feel that you are under some type of obligation to change that list, or risk having no opponents... which is no fun for you, either.

Right there. This is it for me. I've always played shooty Marines, and I've never run the same list twice. Some of my lists have completely dominated the game, and it wasn't any fun for me or my friend. I tucked a mental note in the back of my head that "this list was highly effective... If I ever go to a tourney, I might want to use that!" But for friendly games, amongst me and my friends, the story behind the battle is as important as what happens during the battle itself, so we always bring a fluffy list that doesn't stop us from being very competitive at the same time.

 

The one thing we can never quite reconcile is how many casualties both sides face :D ("Its going to take both of these chapters forever to recover from these losses!")

 

I really don't understand making a singular list. ("This is my 1500 point army, and they're the only models I own for this codex.") I know that people do it because its either the best army list they can come up with or its the fluffiest or what have you, but just running one thing over and over again would bore the hell out of me, overpowered or cheesy or not.

That's why i buy almost every new army that comes out instead of increasing my current one. I of course sell my current army before doing so - and i don't do the 'typical bandwaggoning'. I change due to wanting to keep the hobby fresh and to try the new codex to try and make a better army/list than my previous version.

 

As for the OP's question, three isn't 'cheesy', but i would consider it towards the 2000+ level. You really need more bodies than walking corpses to say the least.

 

thanks

antique_nova

[Stormshrug]

You hand someone 10 armour saves they're bound to fail a fair few.

 

Oh man, I wish this was the case.

 

-Stormshrug

[Chengar Qordath]

You hand someone 10 armour saves they're bound to fail a fair few.

 

Oh man, I wish this was the case.

 

-Stormshrug

The Dice Gods laugh at your claims of statistical probability, and allow your opponent to pass all 10 of his armor saves, then make your Terminators roll all 1's on their armor saves to punish you for your insolence.

[Notanoob]

Psyrifle Dreads might be the best in the game at popping AV12> vehicles, but as it has been pointed out they really aren't as good at anything else. Against nids they will be partially useful against certain units, like warriors or MC's, but probably won't earn their points back in that game. But for the armies that they are good against, they are worth their points in gold and I'd take them every time in an all-comers list.

Pfft. As a Tyranid player myself, I know this too be false. Psyfleman Dreads are excellent against my main two sources of anti tank, being able to ID Zoanthropes (who also pwn marines with the S5 AP3 blast) and shred Hive Guard (they'd get no save and are wounded on 2s, plus their guns are half the range of autocannons and they can't DS). Furthermore, Warriors (and their cousins the Shrikes and Raveners), who are excellent against MEQs when equipped with Lash Whip and Boneswords, and perhaps toxic sacs as well, are mulched by the accurate ID firepower, and with sheer spam they can down MCs (who only have a 3+ save most of the time mind you). If not that, they can just ID termagants to bypass their FNP granted from a local Tervigon.

True; the psyfleman is capable of engaging MCs, but it is not ideal in that role unless your opponent has bad luck on his armor saves. If you're up against a 'Nid-zilla list, you're likely to end up wishing you had a bit more variety in your list.

Then you realize that every unit in your army can buff its S value in CC or just Force Weapons it to oblivion.

[Brother Captain Kezef]

Psyrifle Dreads might be the best in the game at popping AV12> vehicles, but as it has been pointed out they really aren't as good at anything else. Against nids they will be partially useful against certain units, like warriors or MC's, but probably won't earn their points back in that game. But for the armies that they are good against, they are worth their points in gold and I'd take them every time in an all-comers list.

Pfft. As a Tyranid player myself, I know this too be false. Psyfleman Dreads are excellent against my main two sources of anti tank, being able to ID Zoanthropes (who also pwn marines with the S5 AP3 blast) and shred Hive Guard (they'd get no save and are wounded on 2s, plus their guns are half the range of autocannons and they can't DS). Furthermore, Warriors (and their cousins the Shrikes and Raveners), who are excellent against MEQs when equipped with Lash Whip and Boneswords, and perhaps toxic sacs as well, are mulched by the accurate ID firepower, and with sheer spam they can down MCs (who only have a 3+ save most of the time mind you). If not that, they can just ID termagants to bypass their FNP granted from a local Tervigon.

True; the psyfleman is capable of engaging MCs, but it is not ideal in that role unless your opponent has bad luck on his armor saves. If you're up against a 'Nid-zilla list, you're likely to end up wishing you had a bit more variety in your list.

Then you realize that every unit in your army can buff its S value in CC or just Force Weapons it to oblivion.

 

Rifledreads lose their force weapons.

 

Biggest flaw in the rifledread is an opponent that can either break your line to get into CC or drop armour busters on top of them.

 

Seen some nasty drop pod lists that would shut down a rifle line.

[Doomaflatchi]

If not that, they can just ID termagants to bypass their FNP granted from a local Tervigon.

Actually, this part is not entirely accurate - even though the Autocannon has enough AP to defeat the termagant's armor save, FNP is only denied by an attack against which no armor save can be taken (ie, AP2/1 or power weapons).

 

Everything else you said is right on the money, though. Psiflemen are really painful for Nids to deal with.