Do opponents get a cover save against a Blood Lance?

[Chay]

Hi Guys,

 

Sorry I could not search-fu this.

 

Do opponents get a cover save from Blood Lance?

Can you please refer exactly where I can read this?

Appreciate the help.

[JamesI]

As no where in the rules does it say cover saves may not be taken, then they can be.

[Cpt. Blood Donator]

As no where in the rules does it say cover saves may not be taken, then they can be.

 

Indeed, strictly speaking each target after the first should get a 4+ cover save.

[knife&fork]

As no where in the rules does it say cover saves may not be taken, then they can be.

 

Indeed, strictly speaking each target after the first should get a 4+ cover save.

 

I agree, but from reading the description that was probably not how it was intended to work.

 

RAI vs RAW once again....

 

I mean, how can you get covers saves from something that hits automatically? doesn't make sense to me.

[Gv0zD]

Sad but true. It decreases Lance's effectiveness. In my favourite example with Leman Russ behind a crowd of guardsmen, killing both in one turn may not be so easy. Shoot at guardsmen, pen the tank, charge at guardsmen. But the tank survived! Oh, well, life was never so easy.

[Cpt. Blood Donator]

As no where in the rules does it say cover saves may not be taken, then they can be.

 

Indeed, strictly speaking each target after the first should get a 4+ cover save.

 

I agree, but from reading the description that was probably not how it was intended to work.

 

RAI vs RAW once again....

 

I mean, how can you get covers saves from something that hits automatically? doesn't make sense to me.

 

It is sad indeed. Although I do find it rather positive that the main rulebook did balance that "spell" out. It might have been a bit much otherwise. But then again, I just saw the space wolf psychic powers. I mean, really?

[Judaz]

As no where in the rules does it say cover saves may not be taken, then they can be.

 

Indeed, strictly speaking each target after the first should get a 4+ cover save.

 

I agree, but from reading the description that was probably not how it was intended to work.

 

RAI vs RAW once again....

 

I mean, how can you get covers saves from something that hits automatically? doesn't make sense to me.

 

It is sad indeed. Although I do find it rather positive that the main rulebook did balance that "spell" out. It might have been a bit much otherwise. But then again, I just saw the space wolf psychic powers. I mean, really?

I have never used Blood lance in an effective way. An "autohit" power that gives cover saves and on average have a range of 12"?

It would be balanced if it had a fixed range and no cover saves. 12+2d6" range would be ok. Then I atleast would know that I'd hit that tank 8" away.

 

SW and Grey Knights have much better powers with fixed range and template. We could have gotten an ok power, instead we got something I will never try to use again.

[Cpt. Blood Donator]

Eeer, Blood Lance is probably one of the best powers out there. It's a free bright lance with AP1, with a chance to hit multiple targets.

[JamesI]

Eeer, Blood Lance is probably one of the best powers out there. It's a free bright lance with AP1, with a chance to hit multiple targets.

The short range and cover saves make it in my opinion a mediocre power. Shield, Sword, Unleash Rage and Fear of the Darkness are all better powers in my opinion.

 

Most of the time I wouldn't bother with Lance.

[Cpt. Blood Donator]

Eeer, Blood Lance is probably one of the best powers out there. It's a free bright lance with AP1, with a chance to hit multiple targets.

The short range and cover saves make it in my opinion a mediocre power. Shield, Sword, Unleash Rage and Fear of the Darkness are all better powers in my opinion.

 

Most of the time I wouldn't bother with Lance.

 

You still like fear of the darkness? Haven't seen it in use since it went single-target. Shield is great, and you get to use both shield and spear in the same game turn, so they have something going for them in tandem. Sword is great, although I have never used a librarian actively for C.C (he mainly goes with RAS with meltas or H.G with meltas). Unleash is well.. good, real good. But once, sticking a Libby in C.C isn't what it used to be.

[Judaz]

Blood Lance has the potential to be a game winner, blowing up 4 Land raiders with a single shot, but most of the time it's used to kill a single marine and maybe blow up a rhino during the whole game.

It's a lot of rolls that need to be made for the power to be effective. Psychic test, range, armour, cover save and damage. 5 rolls that can fail. A melta has 3 rolls. If it had a fixed range and no cover saves it would be useful. Remember that it still can be shut down by a hood.

[Cpt. Blood Donator]

Blood Lance has the potential to be a game winner, blowing up 4 Land raiders with a single shot, but most of the time it's used to kill a single marine and maybe blow up a rhino during the whole game.

It's a lot of rolls that need to be made for the power to be effective. Psychic test, range, armour, cover save and damage. 5 rolls that can fail. A melta has 3 rolls. If it had a fixed range and no cover saves it would be useful. Remember that it still can be shut down by a hood.

 

The first target doesn't get cover, so the most important part is going for the veichle first.

[Judaz]

Fear can be extremely useful. Making those objective hugging scouts with 3++ run from their position is fun!

And sword...everytime I've given my librarian other powers than sword he has really needed it. So I don't dare to go without sword any more.

[Cpt. Blood Donator]

Fear can be extremely useful. Making those objective hugging scouts with 3++ run from their position is fun!

And sword...everytime I've given my librarian other powers than sword he has really needed it. So I don't dare to go without sword any more.

 

All in all, I'd like to have spear, sword and shield. I wish the epistolary upgrad made that possible, or that we were G.K. Apparently psychic powers are only worth five points each. Jeez.

[Judaz]

What is spear?

[JamesI]

Eeer, Blood Lance is probably one of the best powers out there. It's a free bright lance with AP1, with a chance to hit multiple targets.

The short range and cover saves make it in my opinion a mediocre power. Shield, Sword, Unleash Rage and Fear of the Darkness are all better powers in my opinion.

 

Most of the time I wouldn't bother with Lance.

 

You still like fear of the darkness? Haven't seen it in use since it went single-target. Shield is great, and you get to use both shield and spear in the same game turn, so they have something going for them in tandem. Sword is great, although I have never used a librarian actively for C.C (he mainly goes with RAS with meltas or H.G with meltas). Unleash is well.. good, real good. But once, sticking a Libby in C.C isn't what it used to be.

Considering the number of meltas we have, and the fact that Blood Lance is short range, I'd rather use multimelta attack bikes to deal with tanks and Blood Lance is nearly worthless against units (1 hit only).

 

Fear can make enemy units leave the table. You shoot them, killing 25%, hit with fear. They fail the fear check, then when its time to take the morale check for 25% casualties, they auto fail. Two run aways in one phase.

[nicolo]

I've found Blood Lance to be extremely effective, especially playing with either droppods or DOA. Once my opponents know they have the Lance they are hesitant to castle, they are left with the choice of grouping together and potentially giving me a devastating strike upon arrival or spreading out, allowing me to single out elements of their formation and focus on only part of their army. Maybe not so much in mech build, but I have found it to be worth playing.

[knife&fork]

I have never used Blood lance in an effective way. An "autohit" power that gives cover saves and on average have a range of 12"?

 

The average roll on 4D6 is 14" since a D6 can't roll 0. I still think it's better than an infernus pistol or regular melta.

[Judaz]

I rather have a melta that I know I get to shoot with and I know that I can reach my target with. The IP is 5pts to expensive IMO. The problem with Blood Lance ain't that it has short average range, it's the possibility that it can get a range of 4" that scares me. I rather play safe. The only one I would use a blood lance with is the Furioso.

[Cpt. Blood Donator]

I rather have a melta that I know I get to shoot with and I know that I can reach my target with. The IP is 5pts to expensive IMO. The problem with Blood Lance ain't that it has short average range, it's the possibility that it can get a range of 4" that scares me. I rather play safe. The only one I would use a blood lance with is the Furioso.

 

The furioso already has a meltagun, and benefits from might of heroes far more than the Lance (In my opinion). Sadly, it can't have magna grapple.

[Judaz]

The Furioso Librarian does not have the meltagun, it has a storm bolter on the Blood fist.

 

I do agree with you on might of heroes. It's far more deadly than lance, but the libby dread is the only one I would even consider taking Blood lance with.

[knife&fork]

I rather have a melta that I know I get to shoot with and I know that I can reach my target with. The IP is 5pts to expensive IMO. The problem with Blood Lance ain't that it has short average range, it's the possibility that it can get a range of 4" that scares me. I rather play safe. The only one I would use a blood lance with is the Furioso.

 

It's not like you have to pick between the two.

BA players mostly use their librarians as CC amplifiers, shooting powers are not that important in that role.

[Cpt. Blood Donator]

I rather have a melta that I know I get to shoot with and I know that I can reach my target with. The IP is 5pts to expensive IMO. The problem with Blood Lance ain't that it has short average range, it's the possibility that it can get a range of 4" that scares me. I rather play safe. The only one I would use a blood lance with is the Furioso.

 

It's not like you have to pick between the two.

BA players mostly use their librarians as CC amplifiers, shooting powers are not that important in that role.

 

That's not what I've seen in different lists, but I guess my local meta and the Kirby-meta differ from yours =).

You were right about the libby dread, he gets a lance then. And jeez, that one just gets worse by the minute ><.

[knife&fork]

That's not what I've seen in different lists, but I guess my local meta and the Kirby-meta differ from yours =).

 

Rage or Might and Shield, stuck in a RAS with no extras.... all the time.

[JamesI]

For the Libby dread, I think the best powers are Wings and Might unless he goes in a drop pod or storm raven, then replace wings with Lance or Shield.