just had a game using draigowing [1750]

[imzra]

good day gents, just had a game using this list at 1750

 

draigo

vindicare

 

10 paladins X 2 [combat squad to make 4 units]

- hammer

- halberd

- MC halberd

- MC halberd + psycannon

- halberd + MC psycannon

 

- sword

- halberd

- MC halberd

- halberd + MC psycannon

- MC halberd + MC psycannon

 

the game was 5 objectives vs vanilla marines

 

first of all i dont think i can really write up a detailed bat rep since there was a lot of laughing going about at the club tonight and im not quite familiar with SM anyway. also before you give any judgement to my craptastic list, let it be known that i am not that much of a competitive player and i really wanted to try a pally list at least once for the lols. anyway we had a few friends to help keep track of the wound allocation abuse. at first i wanted to try the list with 2 apothecary instead of 1 vindicare and just run 2 units of 3KP on the board but i forgot to bring my apothecary. i won the game by the way with 2 objectives to 0.

 

some of the highlights and what i managed to learn from this funny list

- 22 models is fun !! for awhile lol. especially when you see the other side of the board filled with vehicles and lots of lots of models

- vindicare ate 4 krak missiles in the 1st turn haha. failed 1 cover save of 3+ and he went boilk

- 5 man pallies with 2 psycannons and 3 stormbolters dished out on average 8-10 wounds per shooting phase consistently. i was so amazed by this. although it took me 2 shooting phase to kill off 2 dreads with 16 psycannons shots (from 2 pally groups)

- my friend had a lot of str 8 meltas and krak missiles it wasnt funny when my pallies started to drop like flies. im pretty sure 1 squad of 2 multi melta attack bikes killed at least 5 pallies. vindicator was pain too lol taking another 3.

- however, in various CC fights against TH/SS, one chaplain, 1 special guy and around 20ish marines i only lost 4 pallies while i managed to wipe them all out apart from 3 TH/SS which draigo escorted off the table (got some huge laughs here as he was too afraid to engage them, my friend was making SS saves left and right !!)

- in the end i only had 8 pallies and draigo left on the table

 

- I6 halberds really helped a lot in CC but i dont think i could ever rely on them to do very well in CC due to the small amount of attack that GK has

- psycannons are really our greatest asset, im pretty sure they won me the game. having 8 of them however didnt feel enough for me although my friend was only left with those missile launcher squads and snipers

- 2W pally doesnt seem to effect the game much, in the game not even 1 pally was running around with 1 wound, they either die from S8 hits or make their 2+ armor save. in CC they usually kill off all the normal dudes with power weapons easily with their halberds and hammerhand. TH/SS was much tougher though, definitely not a good match for us GK. think i lost 3 pallies to the hammers.

- shooting seems to be the way with GK, for the 1st few turns i got laughed at so badly because my pallies and draigo were MOVING BACKWARDS to avoid getting charged by 2 dreads. i just didnt have much confidence that my hammers can deal with them, but the psycannons eventually did. im torn between adding more hammers which would reduce the effectiveness of having 8 I6 force weapons attack to reduce incoming attacks, it proved enough however especially with shooting killing off some marines first.

- i cant really say draigo played a huge part in the game, he didnt seem like a beast to me, he doesnt die thats for sure, but he doesnt seem as scary as abbadon or mephiston in terms of attacking power, they do cost somewhat similar though i think

- also, i forgot about grand strategy lol

 

all in all it was great fun. and im pretty sure against a very competitive list my pallies would have been tabled in the first few turns. i think going with more bodies and more psycannons and stormbolters would be more effective. our mid-range shooting is so freaking amazing. never had i thought how 24" can actually be quite far. as a final note, playing GK is not a point and click army, even with 21 models (which should of been easy to play with i reckon) i took a lot of time thinking of my next move. it is definitely one of the harder marine army to play.

 

thanks all for the read and sorry for any babbling, too much caffine on a busy day with only 3hrs of sleep. man the things we do just to throw some dices !!!

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Thanks for sharing !! ;) I am a big fan of the Paladins as well.

 

G :D

[Daedalus Templarius]

You need a lib for shrouding, and keep the pallies that aren't with draigo in cover for 3+ cover saves.

 

Should be putting high str low ap wounds on draigo and saving them like a boss with his 3++. Splitting up your paladins means they die just like normal terminators to high str low ap shots, exactly what you don't want. 5++ to save from ID is awful. Draigo is there to make your paladins immune to high str low ap instant death, until he can't soak any more wounds. Draigo + apoth makes you extremely resilient.

 

A footslog list needs cover, your paladins shouldn't have ever really been out of it, therefore you should have always had a 3+ or 4+ cover save, especially with a lib. Also, the lib can make it difficult for you to be assaulted with sanctuary, not to mention other things like quicksilver, etc.

 

Also, you don't really have enough long range, bring a Psyrifle dread. The vindicare is great, but if he is the only long range (36" isn't even really long range) threat on the board, he is going to be dealt with quickly, and he isn't really that tough.

 

My 1750 list is quite different, pallies in a LRR, strikes in 2 razorbacks, vindicare, psyrifle, dreadknight or another psyrifle. I'm not really sure how to play an all footslog paladin list, but I'm sure the board needs a LOT of terrain.

[imzra]

@black orange: your most welcome !!

 

@daedalus: actually i didnt mean for this to be a good palladin list. the guys at the club said it would be awesome to see a pally only list which i brought (although the vindicare alone kinda screwed everything up). we all thought it'd be a great laugh considering all the uber fluff mat ward had written for them and some mention during the leak codex that GK can play with 20 models only and still be competitive. so yea in a nutshell it was more of a fun list than anything else. but i agree with the points that you made, they really need safekeeping.

 

in one CC phase, where most of us we're laughing all the way to the food stall after, was when draigo detached to charge 5 scouts and didnt manage to kill all of them off in 1 phase. the guy who opened a can of whoop ass in the deamon world was left shamed by a single surviving scout lol. also we played in a desert themed table which didnt really have a lot of cover.

 

on a serious note, i totally agree with you. 20 pallies ONLY just cant cut it to be very competitive. they definitely need other stuffs. so yea, for me, at least i tried and 20 pallies wont win me any GTs lol. was good fun though !!

[Zagman]

I have been running DriagoWing since I got my hands on the codex. At 2.5k I have 25 models! Driago, Librarian, 20 paladins, 3 PT Dreadknights.

 

It has faired surprisingly well. 12-1-1 currently. Only loss came at 1.5k against a Coteaz psyker jokero spam list with a vindicare and conversion beamers which I proceeded to crush at 2k.

 

Drew at 2.5k against Calgar marines, assault termies in LR, LRC, 2x MM Venerables in pods, 2x vindicators, librarian. 1-1 objective result on T5, would have won and potentially wiped him had there been a turn 6.

 

I created the army to be a fun themed army, my "Army of Heroes". I was pleasantly surprised how well it has performed on the table.

 

Glad to hear others are running DriagoWing and enjoying it.

 

And yes, mobile Psycannons are phenomenal, and with wound allocation it takes forever to drop those psycannons.

[Oiad]

Not bad considering he has a list tailor-made to annihilate yours - vindicator, meltaspam, TH/SS. Against the latter, keeping with Swords instead of halberds would likely have given you better odds but as you say it was all in the name of fun. And yep, I'm still to see/read a battle where Draigo lives up to his name... ;)

 

...Good work overall, I may have to try a variant list out myself. If the Vindicare wiped is getting wiped off the board before his chance to shoot then, as Daedalus suggests, replacing him with a Librarian sounds best.

[Zagman]

Not bad considering he has a list tailor-made to annihilate yours - vindicator, meltaspam, TH/SS. Against the latter, keeping with Swords instead of halberds would likely have given you better odds but as you say it was all in the name of fun. And yep, I'm still to see/read a battle where Draigo lives up to his name... :(

 

...Good work overall, I may have to try a variant list out myself. If the Vindicare wiped is getting wiped off the board before his chance to shoot then, as Daedalus suggests, replacing him with a Librarian sounds best.

 

Driago is an absolute beast and usually keeps more than his points in paladins alive. I've had him house Calgar and some THSS termies. He has crushed a GK Dread, a Talos, a unit of purifiers, Meganobz, etc. He kills just about anything he runs into and shrugs off the rest.

 

The only thing I've ever got him him combat with that he performed poorly against was a Blessing DP(I misjudged his assault range...).

 

Just keep him away from normal Dreads and he is a combat monster. And remember, even if he fails every invulverable save, he saves over half of his points in paladins from S8+ AP2- weaponry.

[imzra]

evening gents, just had another game with the draigo list. did bring my apothecaries so now it is a full pally list.

 

draigo

 

10 paladin X 2

-apothecary

-banner

-hammer

-sword

-leader with halberd

-halberd

-halberd + psycannon

-halberd + psycannon

-halberd + psycannon

-halberd + MC psycannon

 

this time i was played against an inquisitor coteaz henchmen list with purifiers in SR. he had 2 SR; 1 with 10 purifiers and the other with 8 DCA+2crusaders, 1 LRC with coteaz and a number of crusaders, 1 purifier psycannon firebase squad, think thats all i can remember for now. we played a 3 objective game with DoW deployment which i won 1-0

 

some interesting bits which happened

-instead of combat squads i maintained both pally squad with 10 and draigo joined one of them. i went second and deployed my whole army (lol@1hq and 2troops since that was my whole army) right smack in the middle of the table

 

-10 man pallies with apothecary is da bomb! i survived a whole lot of bolter/psycannon shooting throughout the game heavily thanks to the apothecary.

 

-here's the best bit which happened in the game: since my opponent had high mobility, in the 2nd turn he dished out 8DCA+2CR and 10 purifiers (6halberds,2incinerator,2 hammer) towards the pally squad (the one without draigo). bit of bad luck for my friend since he failed the purifiers' instant kill spell with a perils. DCAs are amazing btw !! anyway i took around 12 wounds which was evenly spread out with me losing 2 pallies IIRC. i still had a lot of bodies and focused most of my attacks towards the purifiers (silly psyk-out grenade). gotta love banner and it's +1A bonus. lost the first round of CC.

 

-2nd round i lost 3 more pallies but managed to kill off the purifiers entirely. 3rd round of cc was a draw and i managed to win the 4th round but he passed his Ld. now on the 5th round he sent in his coteaz and CRs for back up lol. after his charge (again silly psykout grenade) i had 2 pallies left and managed to pull of the instant kill spell and sent coteaz home. at the end of the game 1 pally was left fighting off 8 crusaders in a stalemate. i couldnt kill him and he couldnt kill 1 pally lol.

 

-all of this happened in mid table and was the main story of the game. the rest of his unit spent every single turn moving away and shooting at draigo's group. draigo's group did end up killing the purifier psycannon firebase, destroyed 2 SRs, immobilized the LRC all with shooting. psycannons are amazing !! draigo's group went on to claim the winning objective.

 

-this game draigo didnt actually proved to be a beast in combat (since he didnt get in any) but good Lord did he save a lot of pallies by taking the multi-melta hits. draigo's 3++ is so freaking handy. however his group did lose a few pallies from those auto-perils SR missiles.

 

-the game was kinda legendary with only 1 group of pally taking on and killing the whole of my friend's army and still didnt die at the end. no KP from a 3KP list lol. well not his whole army but you get what i mean. only the vehicles pestered draigo's group while the rest of his army was sent towards the other pally group.

 

-we did discuss after if psyflemen would have helped and we both agreed that they would. unlike yesterday's fight against a marine army packing a lot of S8 weapons this time only the 2 SRs had s8.

 

-i do like the idea of DCAs too. they did pretty awesome for only 8 girls. if it wasnt pallies with the wound abuse thing going on im pretty sure they'd wipe anything they charge. although i've never been a henchmen kinda guy and i love pure GK too much to go and buy metal DCAs lol.

 

in the end we both had a lot of fun and managed to get more input on how the GK works. i do admit this draigo list isnt very competitive but it is definitely very fun to play with. i was literally playing with only 2 units the whole game lol. now ima go build my 2 dreadknights which my wife just bought me and am gonna swap them with a few pallies to play next weekend. thanks again for reading and hope you gents have a lovely weekend.

 

cheers

 

 

btw: i forgot about grand strategy AGAIN !! argh !!

[Zagman]

Interesting second game.

 

My take on equipping paladins:

 

Don't take the apothecaries, especially when you will be able to filed a Dreadknight, I recommend PT, GS, HI loadout. With wound allocation you are very unlikely to take any casualties from small arms fire or non PW CC attacks. If a model is already wounded, it is usually the first to be allocated an ID wound. Paladins are ridiculously resilient to small arms fire by default, the apothecary isn't really necessary.

 

One hammer per for each 5 guys. And I usually give the hammer paladin a psycannon since it adds so much to a list. Getting in to CC with a BA Furioso would be disastrous as you are relying on only 3 attacks.

 

Every model does not need a halberd. Paladins are extremely resilient to most attacks even PW attacks, as you notice having them strike at I1 and survive a DCA assault, and the attacks which scare them, ie Power Fist equivalents and DCCWs either have no need for I6 or strike last. I only run one halberd per 5 paladins. What I do run, is two models with falshions, the added attack is extremely useful. For the same price as the banner you can give 5 guys fashions, and if you still take the banner you have even more attacks(5 on the charge). On normal GK terminators halberds are a great idea, but on paladins there is very little need for them. Swords and falshions are a much better option as having a couple of models with a 4++ is huge against ID. Striking at I4 isn't a big deal in most scenarios as paladins will still likely be able to get off all of their swings. The only time halberds really matter is for small squads facing incubi and FC PWs.

 

My 5 man set up looks like this(I simply duplicate this for my 10 man squads as I usually combat squad them):

Psycannon Daemon Hammer

Psycannon Falshions

Falshions

Sword

Halberd

 

You also note "Leader with a Halberd" paladins have no justicar nor leader model, any model can be declared to be taking the psychic test.

 

Driago is an excellent lascannon catcher, and can usually give cover to the squad behind him as well.

[Resv]

@Zagman:

I'm afraid that I must have a friendly disagreement with you on Halberds, though it is mainly based on opinion and game-play experience rather than hard numbers. I really think I6 is nothing to sneeze at especially when paired with my all time favorite Terminator Upgrade: The Brotherhood Banner. I don't always suggest taking a banner on 5 man units, it does help some times, but in larger groups it is really hand to have. Halberds can really be of use putting wounds out at the very start of combat and while I know that Terminators and especially Paladins are very robust, cutting down on the maximum possible attacks they might end up facing is pretty awesome.

 

I have been thinking about putting together an all Terminator list and I wanted to ask everyone here, but mainly Imzra, what you would do to change or alter your list to be more competitive?

[Zagman]

@Zagman:

I'm afraid that I must have a friendly disagreement with you on Halberds, though it is mainly based on opinion and game-play experience rather than hard numbers. I really think I6 is nothing to sneeze at especially when paired with my all time favorite Terminator Upgrade: The Brotherhood Banner. I don't always suggest taking a banner on 5 man units, it does help some times, but in larger groups it is really hand to have. Halberds can really be of use putting wounds out at the very start of combat and while I know that Terminators and especially Paladins are very robust, cutting down on the maximum possible attacks they might end up facing is pretty awesome.

 

I have been thinking about putting together an all Terminator list and I wanted to ask everyone here, but mainly Imzra, what you would do to change or alter your list to be more competitive?

 

And my disagreement stems from not only theory but game play. My paladins haven't run into anything where more than one halberd per 5 guys would really make that much of a difference. The banner costs NFW attacks on the model that has it. Unless you are putting it in a unit which is unlikely to combat squad and is near max size, then it is a liability. It works well with all halberds on normal terminators, who benefit from halberds much more than paladins do. Otherwise I can't afford that upgrade in my army and I take 15 paladins at 2k. The banner and halberds are more effective on normal Terminators than paladins IMO.

 

My DriagoWing is 12-1-1. I've seen Driago and 5 paladins take the assault from a fully kitted out Bloodbride unit with FC and an Archon, take 5 wounds, not lose a single model and beat them down in CC to a man(woman). They've taken ork multiassaults and walked away, I've beat down Incubi with them, they are extremely resilient and losing a single wounds isn't that big of a deal as it gets spread out and doesn't cause you to lose combat potential. What matters is being able to deliver a large number of relatively cost effective attacks back. Taking a couple of falshions works whereas a banner would throw in non PW attacks into the mis which could be used for wound allocation against you. Often 5 man squads, especially in Driagowing, are necessary to maximize the damage you can dish out, a banner just doesn't make the cut IMO with points being a premium, neither does the apothecary. Halberds are great, but unnecessary for paladins.

[imzra]

I have been thinking about putting together an all Terminator list and I wanted to ask everyone here, but mainly Imzra, what you would do to change or alter your list to be more competitive?

 

well tbh im not so sure bro. to me pally list is not an all comer's list. a friend of mine runs with 24 fire dragons in his eldar's all comers list which would table my pally list prolly in turn 1. it can be competitive but against lists which packs a lot of S8 it will be hard. i wont even imagine how it will fare against an optimized leafblower list.

 

to answer your question i think there's two possible ways to answer. do you want an 'all' pallies list with nothing else but pallies or an army which is built on pallies. if i would one day bring this list for tourney play, the 1st thing id change is adding psyflemen dreads.

 

but if you want to maintain an 'all' pally list, then i reckon more adjustment on the wound allocation abuse. thats really all i can think of lol since my 'all' pally list is really meant for fun rather than competitive play although im quite surprised on how they performedl. also for my 'all' pally list i dont have the option to put in anything else do i haha. however i might one day try a pally list with 1 10-pally squad and a few 3-pally firebase squads or even single-pally squads. this is majorly to increase psycannon target saturation. in my 2nd game i realized 16 psycannons shot on a single vehicle is a bit overkill. 8 would have been better i reckon. i would also remove my 2nd apothecary for more psycannons in those smaller pally squads.

 

as for banners and halberds, i honestly think they helped a lot. killing people before they hit will no doubt reduce incoming attacks which in turn reduces the number of saves i have to make later. as for banner, id only bring it in a 10-pally squad. you lose 2 attacks and gain 9 more. on top of auto-passing instant death spell thats pretty awesome. the base attack on pallies of 2 to me is not enough for them to be CC efficient. zagman does make valid points with falchions but i just love the halberds too much.

 

hope this helps.

 

oh and also dont forget about grand strategy like i did...twice...haha

[DevianID]

Here is my take... if you are going to take the banner then you should take nothing but halberds and hammers. The idea is that you dont want would allocation to ever happen at init4, especially since one of the big draws of the banner is autopassing forceweapons making everything instant death. Thus, if you want the banner for autopassing forceweapons, then definately go halberds and hammers.

 

If you dont care about autopassing forceweapons in your metagame, then I agree with Zagman... leave the halberds and the banner home, and use more swords and falchions, especially if they FAQ falchions to be +2 attacks.

 

Also... REMEMBER GRAND STRATEGY lol!!!

[schreier]

I have been running DriagoWing since I got my hands on the codex. At 2.5k I have 25 models! Driago, Librarian, 20 paladins, 3 PT Dreadknights.

 

It has faired surprisingly well. 12-1-1 currently. Only loss came at 1.5k against a Coteaz psyker jokero spam list with a vindicare and conversion beamers which I proceeded to crush at 2k.

 

Drew at 2.5k against Calgar marines, assault termies in LR, LRC, 2x MM Venerables in pods, 2x vindicators, librarian. 1-1 objective result on T5, would have won and potentially wiped him had there been a turn 6.

 

I created the army to be a fun themed army, my "Army of Heroes". I was pleasantly surprised how well it has performed on the table.

 

Glad to hear others are running DriagoWing and enjoying it.

 

And yes, mobile Psycannons are phenomenal, and with wound allocation it takes forever to drop those psycannons.

 

Zagman - can you post how you're arming those 25? Aporhecaries? Banners? Any guns on the dreadknights? What kinds of powers on the librarian?

[Zagman]

Zagman - can you post how you're arming those 25? Aporhecaries? Banners? Any guns on the dreadknights? What kinds of powers on the librarian?

2500

 

275 Draigo

 

170 Librarian ?

MC NFSword +?

Shrouding +?

Sanctuary +?

Might of Titan +?

 

650 Paladin Squad x 10 = ?

2x Nemesis Falshions +?

2x Nemesis Halberd +?

2x Nemesis Force Sword +?

2x Daemon Hammer and PsyCannon +?

2x Nemesis Falshions + PsyCannon +?

 

650 Paladin Squad x 10 = ?

2x Nemesis Falshions +?

2x Nemesis Halberd +?

2x Nemesis Force Sword +?

2x Daemon Hammer and PsyCannon +?

2x Nemesis Falshions + PsyCannon +?

 

260 Nemesis Dreadknight ?

Nemesis Greatsword +?

Heavy Incinerator +?

Personal Teleporter +?

 

260 Nemesis Dreadknight ?

Nemesis Greatsword +?

Heavy Incinerator +?

Personal Teleporter +?

 

235 Nemesis Dreadknight ?

Heavy Incinerator +?

Personal Teleporter+?

 

 

2500/2500