Are chaos dreadnoughts any good?

[deity12]

Ok, so this question is probably here a thousand times over in this forum but...

 

Are chaos dreadnoughts any good?

 

I LOVE the forgeworld models but just don't know if it would be that effective. (I'm fielding it with 2 CCWs) I would be swapping it out for a greater daemon. I can post my list if that helps with it's 'effectiveness measure.

 

thanks

[Noctus Cornix]

I don't care what other people say, but I personally love my chaos dreadnought. Sure he goes bonkers once in a while. but he will reap a toll like no other.

 

I some times take him with the extra close combat weapon, but i personally prefer taking a twin-linked auto cannon or a plasma cannon

[deity12]

Sorry, I just realised something, the dreadnought can't keep up with the rest of my army, too slow, sorry awesome forgeworld models.

[Brother Nihm]

Are chaos dreadnoughts any good?

Not for competitive play, too many variables, over-costed upgrades, and has paper for armour.

 

But the Dreadnoughts from Forgeworld do look amazing.

 

 

My 2 Kraks

[Shas'o R'Vre]

You could always do what I intend to do with my FW Dread when I get it...

 

Buy it, Paint it, then proxy your army using a different Codex. You get a BEAUTIFUL model, and the ability to play it without it sucking like Grandfather Nurgle on a boiled sweet.

[Chaoswolf]

Yes, I think that they're good.

 

I run 2 (sometimes 3) of them together with ML and DCCW. Keep a little distance between them and anything else ( it doesn't have to be tons of room , just ensure that they are closest to each other. ) If they fire frenzy, they'll light up one another with frag missiles and bolters--no harm done.

 

This has been fairly effective for me; they either get ignored because the other guy is waiting for them to shoot my army to ribbons, or else every AT weapon on the board shoots at them, leaving my transports safe to cross the field and get into CC.

[Hellios]

Sorry, I just realised something, the dreadnought can't keep up with the rest of my army, too slow, sorry awesome forgeworld models.

 

Will your group allow FW rules.... if so Dreadclaws! If you don't know... they are chaos Dropods (or assault craft/boat if you want to be accurate!)... but being chaos they are better and evil! Now speed isn't an issue... you were going to deck them out for CC anyway... so bonus and if they go mad... well they are next to your enemy!

[Hyaenidae]

In standard games, no, not really. They scream, shoot your own guys, then die shortly afterwards. I still take one just for the fun games, but when I'm playing serious competition, it stays home. But in Apoc games, chaos dreads really come into their own if played right, and have a habit of raising five different shades of hell in the enemy ranks. During my last Apoc game, my four dreads ganged up on a brass scorpion, and caused it to go nuke at nearly the maximum distance. My dreads died, but the nuclear fire nearly cleared half my opponents' army off the board. Beautiful...

[Spacefrisian]

2 dread ccw and tl bolters and ea. Have a av 11+ stand next to it and it becomes quite usefull. Heck i would even shoot 2 times with my TL bolter if it gets into fire frenzy.

 

In addition if it gets stunned or shaken you can just ignor the firefrenzy as you arent able to shoot anyway.

[Plague Dave]

Not a lot of people seem to be aware of this, but according to the Adepticon INAT FAQ, which all my local tournies abide by, Dreadnaughts are better than most people think.

 

Given that they only have a 45 degree arc of fire, and, as a vehicle, line of sight (off each arm), and they only pivot towards the closest visable unit, they'll hardly ever shoot your own troops if you're careful with their placement. There's no 180 degree pivots to shoot things behind themselves. Put a long range gun on them, and they should have an enemy in their line of sight quite often, in fact. Even running side by side in a dual set-up, they won't shoot at each other if you get just a little space between them.

 

This ruling redeeming Dreads a bit in my eyes. Crazy still stinks, but it's not nearly so bad with this in mind.

[chillin]

Not a lot of people seem to be aware of this, but according to the Adepticon INAT FAQ, which all my local tournies abide by, Dreadnaughts are better than most people think.

Given that they only have a 45 degree arc of fire, and, as a vehicle, line of sight (off each arm), and they only pivot towards the closest visable unit, they'll hardly ever shoot your own troops if you're careful with their placement.

 

Actually I think most chaos players are aware of this ruling, but IMO most (including myself) don't think it makes chaos dreads any more competitive.

As you said yourself, you have to be careful with placement. There's plenty to consider when placing any umit; their LoS, enemy LoS, terrain, objectives, etc, now with a chaos dread you also have to consider them shooting your own guys. Second and more importantly, out of your control is out of your control. even if they don't shoot your own guys, standing still and shooting at nothing or at non-viable enemy target when you need it to get into hth, is no good. Running forward out of cover and into LoS of enemy hvy guns when there is no way it can reach hth, is no good. Being out of your control 33% of the time makes them non-competitive if you care at all if you win the game or not.

I have two converted dreads that I like so I use them once in awhile in a friendly game, esp if I'm playing a less experienced player and I want to handicap myself for the sake of a better, more fun game.

Sometimes if i want to use my dreads (and jugger rider) models, I use the SW dex to represent an all undivided BL army.

[Dan The Deamon]

I'm of the mindset that chaos dreadnoughts are pretty fun to use, and when i say that, i mean if you are going through the effort to make the chaos dex work, then there's room for dreads.

 

They will never be as good as loyalists.

They will never spectacular given the crazed rules.

They will oftentimes really, really, mess your plans up.

 

The times they tend to cooperate for me, they surpass any expectations I have of them.

[The Prophet]

I agree with chillin. The problem is not that they take a few shots at yourself, but rather that you cannot count on them taking shots or charging the enemy when needed. They cannot be added into your grand scheme in the same way as other units.

[Lady_Canoness]

On paper they don't look good, but in play they have never failed to amaze me. I take three Chaos Dreads in a 1500pt list (Plasma+DCCW, TWHB+DCCD, and 2xDCCW) I put them all together *as if* they were a squadron, and then they proceed to amaze me with how good they actually are.

 

Fire frenzy is obviously a bummer, but with weapons that can't hurt each other that goes unoticed. Blood Rage, however, makes them unpredictable to the enemy, and means that they have to be extra cautious since (unlike the vanilla dreads, which I think SUCK) we don't stamp around at 6" a turn - we can go much faster than that!

I just had a game yesterday against vanilla marines, in fact, and with Kill points as the objective the dreads not only all survived the game (every other unit on the table was wiped out) but, since all of them were alive in the late stages of the game when just about every other threat on the board was weakened or dead, provided me with an ample mop up crew to cement victory.

Its not all bad.

 

My rules of thumb, however, is to take three dreads or none - anywhere in between will give you a less than welcome result.

[mega_marines]

Oh man, I will never NOT run a Dreadnought!

 

My first game with my Night Lords saw me deploying with an ally using Red Corsairs. First turn in our favor, saw my NL Dreadnought's FIRST EVER SHOTS Fire-Frenzy into the Corsairs. My TL-Autocannon and TL-Bolter ripped loose and killed 4 Corsairs. My opponent was furious, but all I could do was picture the Dread going "Hurrrrrrr" afterward. Why? Because every turn afterward he rolled perfectly and proceeded to blow apart a Chimera, run through a Command Squad in a single phase after shooting the frak out of them, and then Fire Frenzied into the rear of a squadron of Leman Russes, destroying them all in that singular shooting phase; the explosions of two of them killed about a dozen more Guardsmen in the process. In the end, I managed to kill some of my enemies, and even more Guardsmen. ;)

 

When I heard the plot of A-D-B's Blood Reaver announced, I couldn't help but laugh my ass off when I thought back to that game. Every little bit of victory feels so good.

 

For me, it never matters if they're good on the tabletop or not, if it's cool or fits the theme, it gets a spot in the army. As random as Dreads are, I just try and picture why they suddenly choose to lose their sh-:) and go on a "small" rampage. Adds a whole new level of excitement to the game.

 

That, and when your opponent's face suddenly becomes very grim when you Fire Frenzy into one of his units, especially if you happen to have a nasty and wicked lookign Dread going down his throat... ;)

[Gore-Child]

I've never used one...but these points are making me want one...even if I'm not a fan of the model

[Zeller]

Are chaos dreadnoughts any good?

Not for competitive play, too many variables, over-costed upgrades, and has paper for armour.

 

But the Dreadnoughts from Forgeworld do look amazing.

 

 

My 2 Kraks

 

Thankyou Mordin Solus. ^_^

 

Dreads are sweet. If you're slogging the army then the dread is fine. Hybrid armies work with them too.

[Brother Nihm]

I sing too!

[Brother Ambroz]

After reading this, I've gotten some ideas for dreads. Has anyone tried using them with a defiler? I'm thinking of running two with a defiler.

[Ubermensch Commander]

Chaos Dreadnoughts are good, they do not work in every kind of list however.

They still suffer from the same weaknesses of Loyalist Dreadnoughts, which is to say big targets, only moderate armor, and not that fast. That being said, they can hit like a ton of bricks.

Excellent for slogging armies and when taken in groups of three. You can basically use them as cover for your squads moving up across the board, or have them group on a flank and have a field day. I am, admittedly, thinking of CC-oriented Dreadnoughts. Mega Marines seems to have good times with rifleman-esque Chaos Dreads, I'd listen to him on that.

Key note: They must be SUPPORTED. Squads of marines/zerks/etc following behind them work rather well, as do Defilers. Running a Chaos Killa Kan style army can give many players pause and is just plain intimidating to have that many walkers coming your way. Hardly an unstoppable army, suffering a bit at the hands of Dark Eldar and the like if not backed up by some kind of long range fire power or fast tank busting power to knock out skimmers and transports, but it is a solid force.

 

In short: Yes, Dreads are good, they simply have to handled with care and cannot just be hurled into a list. They aren't no brainer choices.

[mega_marines]

Chaos Dreadnoughts are good, they do not work in every kind of list however.

They still suffer from the same weaknesses of Loyalist Dreadnoughts, which is to say big targets, only moderate armor, and not that fast. That being said, they can hit like a ton of bricks.

Excellent for slogging armies and when taken in groups of three. You can basically use them as cover for your squads moving up across the board, or have them group on a flank and have a field day. I am, admittedly, thinking of CC-oriented Dreadnoughts. Mega Marines seems to have good times with rifleman-esque Chaos Dreads, I'd listen to him on that.

Key note: They must be SUPPORTED. Squads of marines/zerks/etc following behind them work rather well, as do Defilers. Running a Chaos Killa Kan style army can give many players pause and is just plain intimidating to have that many walkers coming your way. Hardly an unstoppable army, suffering a bit at the hands of Dark Eldar and the like if not backed up by some kind of long range fire power or fast tank busting power to knock out skimmers and transports, but it is a solid force.

 

In short: Yes, Dreads are good, they simply have to handled with care and cannot just be hurled into a list. They aren't no brainer choices.

 

 

Hah, I concur with this. Dreads while looking decent on paper NEED to be supported, regardless of the armament. Las and Missile? Support the advancing Chaos Marine Squad, Havocs, etc. Close combat monster Dread? Run it behind a vehicle (or a Dreadclaw if your your opponent says it's ok) like a Rhino or a Land Raider. Got two of them? Have them play running shield for each other, every other turn running in front of the other from other shots.

 

My personal favorite is my TL-Autocannon, DCCW, and TL-Bolter simply because it looks incredibly intimidating and I love shredding light infantry with him. Of course there will be better combinations out and about for a players needs and preferences, but I hold it close to my heart because it's awesome.

 

When using your Dread, you're using a fluffy but amazing element to the game, and it should represent what you like, not just what's most effective; though, that is very important. Also be aware of the risk factor of using incredibly strong weapons such a TL-Lascannon or Plasma Cannon on it. One turn of Fire Frenzy into a squad of say your Terminators or Chosen can see your Plasma Cannon incinerating most if not all of them. But, that's a little bit of the charm, I find. It's like Russian Roulette when you take a high powered combo. Best example of this that I can recall is what happened a few months back when my friends Words Bearers were playing against some Dark Eldar. In one turn, the Dreadnought fire Frenzied its Plasma Cannon and Missile Launcher into a massive Incubi Squad with an attached Archon and Succubus and slaughtered them all. Massive win right there, but it was almost canceled out when next turn it Fire Frenzied again and killed 9 out of 10 advancing Word Bearer Terminators heading for a a Ravager.

 

This can all be easily translated as "With high reward, comes great risk". For all you nerdier folks "Great power comes with great responsibility". :rolleyes: Be practical, and smart with your weapon choices.

 

 

I sing too!

 

DAMN IT. I can't unsee it now.

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

this thread has reviived my thoughts about using a dread with my Thousand Sons... only main problem is most advice is to take them in at least a pair, though trios work better when I was thinking of having a flamer and melta chosen squad and reaperplasma termis squad (this is in 1750-2500pts games) if I were to take a dread, what would be the best loadout for supporting the sons? was thinking of Plasma cannon, DDCW, Extra armour and heavy flamer or Plasma cannon, Missile launcher and extra armour as I like the plasma cannon and it helps give either long range or long range and cc suport for my Thousand Sons squad (plus there 4++ means a fire frenzy with a plasma cannon onto them is not quite as scary as at first glance) so what would be good genrally for thousand sons? (will use the forge world model if I do use one, also 2 DCCW seems a bit... un Thousand Son like, so that s out.)

[daboarder]

After reading this, I've gotten some ideas for dreads. Has anyone tried using them with a defiler? I'm thinking of running two with a defiler.

 

my 2000 list runs 2 PC, CCW dreads and a defiler with 2 CCW's they put the hurt on anyone stupid enough to be in the open or bunch up their transports. They are also invaluable in securing a flank and draw massive amounts of fire away from my own transports allowing me to get to grips with the enemy. the presence of the defiler is also a large boon as its helps keep my dreads from getting locked in combat.

 

Edit: one thing to note about dread, FF happens at the start of the shooting phase, as such some canny movement can mean that you are able to reposition your other units to minimize or eliminate and potential for self harm. ie: pull back behind the 180 line son only opponents units are visible.

 

edits: at above, hmm to support a TS army I'd go with something that fills the weakness inherent in the army, with that in mind I'd recommend one of 2 builds, anti horde fire support, TLHB, ML. OR I'd run with a CC dread setup in order to shield your expensive troops and provide some counter assualt. I wouldn't ever give dreads anti tank armament as they would just blow each other up repeatedly.

[Papewaio]

They aren't competitive by any stretch of the imagination (unless you're one of those creative folk) but my God are they fun. I've never played them at more then 1000 points however, so my experiences probably aren't the best indicator.

 

That said, at lower points levels (between 500 and 750) they can be absolute stars, and being fairly cheap for what you get, leave room for some objective holders or support units as well. Just steer away from plasma cannons if you have small, elite units near it - my Plague Marines still remember having the entire squad of 10 wiped out, first turn. Two DCCWs aren't bad, and heavy flamer could be alright against some of the armies that have a higher model count.

 

If you are going to run dreads, remember that you are taking them for FUN, and not to win. They'll do one of two things - astound and amaze you, or leave you crying with laughter as they take apart your game-winning plan with the ease taken from an offering to the Dice Gods.

[daboarder]

just a question. How are people getting "key small elite units" wiped out by fire frenzy, it kicks in during the shooting phase so if that unit is so important move it away or move a rhino or a sacrificial unit so that its closer to the dread than the "key unit".