Blood Angels Sergeant rules question

[lolita23q]

hello

 

flipping a bit in my BA codex yesterday and got a little confused, under the section where you choose weapons to assault Sergeant says

'replace chain Word / bolt pistol with "and so a list of weapons, now my question is can he change BOTH weapons or just one of them or he can change both towards the same, say that he has two hand flamers or two Thunder Hammers?

 

for all other states' replace chain word and / or bolt gun "can only va a typo that they forgot the "and / or "

only want to be on the safe side before you make a model

[9K Painting]

well you CAN change to 2 thunderhammers to get an extra attack, albeit expensive :P

[lolita23q]

well you CAN change to 2 thunderhammers to get an extra attack, albeit expensive :P

 

So its okej ?

a assault sargent with power fist and hand flamer is legal ? and a assault sergant with 2 thunder hammers is it too?

[Volcatus]

well you CAN change to 2 thunderhammers to get an extra attack, albeit expensive :P

 

So its okej ?

a assault sargent with power fist and hand flamer is legal ? and a assault sergant with 2 thunder hammers is it too?

 

Yes, it is legal to swap out both his chainsword and bolt pistol for any 2 options from his options list. Remeber though that even though you can take two hand flamers (and get the extra CC dice for two CC weapons), you still can only shoot one during the shooting phase.

[Cpt. Blood Donator]

Thanks to this, my Dante model now serves as a assault sarge. with inferno pistol and power weapon. It's brilliant.

[shatter]

Dont do it at a tourney or people will say his appearance is the equivalent of wargear he doesn't have. Ie. not WYSIWYG.

[BorisBC]

Dont do it at a tourney or people will say his appearance is the equivalent of wargear he doesn't have. Ie. not WYSIWYG.

 

nah that would be ok, so long as the SGT is painted red and not gold ala Dante. That would be a no-no. But painted up like a regular marine he should be fine. The bits in the DC and Sang Guard boxsets that get used for regular lads have far more bling than Dante's kit.

[shatter]

No offence, but your opinion here gets a vote of one that isn't the opponent or the TO. Opponents in tourneys can be complete and utter jerks and by RAW, a Dante model is not a sergeant. No matter how it's painted, Dante is Dante or a SC with a different name that 'counts as' Dante. Ref Counts As C:BA.

[Cpt. Blood Donator]

WYSiWYG is rather simple, Jump Pack + Power Weapon + Inferno Pistol + Power Armour = Sarge. Only people on this board dream up that this would ever matter.

[The ironfoot]

WYSiWYG is rather simple, Jump Pack + Power Weapon + Inferno Pistol + Power Armour = Sarge. Only people on this board dream up that this would ever matter.

 

The problem is that Dante has got a death mask and is wearing artificer armour instead of power armour. If you were playing against me I personally wouldn't care but i do think it might be somewhat problematic in tourneys.

[Quixus]

Remeber though that even though you can take two hand flamers (and get the extra CC dice for two CC weapons), you still can only shoot one during the shooting phase.

Are you sure? The hand flamers are pistols which count as additional CCWs. With two of them the sergeant however does not have a first CCW since his chainsword is replaced. Otherwise Tac Marines would also have 2 base attacks.

[knife&fork]

Remeber though that even though you can take two hand flamers (and get the extra CC dice for two CC weapons), you still can only shoot one during the shooting phase.

Are you sure? The hand flamers are pistols which count as additional CCWs. With two of them the sergeant however does not have a first CCW since his chainsword is replaced. Otherwise Tac Marines would also have 2 base attacks.

 

Eeeeer? No?

 

You can model marines with knives or bayonets but they are not listed as having a close combat weapon other than the pistol.

[Quixus]

Eeeeer? No?

 

You can model marines with knives or bayonets but they are not listed as having a close combat weapon other than the pistol.

True, my point however is that the pistol/hand flamer does not count as a CCW but as an additional CCW. Without a first real CCW it would not grant an extra attack.

[Cpt. Blood Donator]

WYSiWYG is rather simple, Jump Pack + Power Weapon + Inferno Pistol + Power Armour = Sarge. Only people on this board dream up that this would ever matter.

 

The problem is that Dante has got a death mask and is wearing artificer armour instead of power armour. If you were playing against me I personally wouldn't care but i do think it might be somewhat problematic in tourneys.

 

I usually pull the good old "Succesor Chapter" card. All my veterans are golden, and a helmet is just a helmet, wether or not it looks fancy. I remember in third, when all marine "force commanders" had artificer armour (or well, were usually bought such) and just ran around in regular power armour. I'm pretty sure that it was the fifth edition that decided "armour with nipples and toes = artificer". Or at least was the first to picture it as such in the codex. Also, all my other vet sarges are golden, so he doesn't really stick out that much. Oh the joy of the Blood Donators.

[JamesI]

Eeeeer? No?

 

You can model marines with knives or bayonets but they are not listed as having a close combat weapon other than the pistol.

True, my point however is that the pistol/hand flamer does not count as a CCW but as an additional CCW. Without a first real CCW it would not grant an extra attack.

If you have 2 pistols, you qualify in the rulebook as having 2 single handed weapons that can be used in combat, thus +1 attack.

[Quixus]

Woops you're right. I remembered that they counted as additonal weapon. In fact they count a s normal (or first) CCW. So two pistols would indeed give +1 attack.

[Cpt. Blood Donator]

Woops you're right. I remembered that they counted as additonal weapon. In fact they count a s normal (or first) CCW. So two pistols would indeed give +1 attack.

 

Pistols are confusing, they change rules with every edition =)

[Demoulius]

as far as i know there is no rule (tourney rule or otherwise) against proxy models. if you want to proxy Dante as a normal sargeant thats your bussines, so long as you clarify it to your opponent.

[Cpt. Blood Donator]

as far as i know there is no rule (tourney rule or otherwise) against proxy models. if you want to proxy Dante as a normal sargeant thats your bussines, so long as you clarify it to your opponent.

 

Usually there are. But I mean, that really depends on how far you go with "proxy". A marine with all the correct gear could pretty much be anything. It's not like anybody will yell "your librarian is actually a GK terminator!". Which I believe will be a common sight in 2 months.

[Demoulius]

as far as i know there is no rule (tourney rule or otherwise) against proxy models. if you want to proxy Dante as a normal sargeant thats your bussines, so long as you clarify it to your opponent.

 

Usually there are. But I mean, that really depends on how far you go with "proxy". A marine with all the correct gear could pretty much be anything. It's not like anybody will yell "your librarian is actually a GK terminator!". Which I believe will be a common sight in 2 months.

ah i see, my appologies then. the 2 tourneys that i went to had no such rules. basicly if your clear on what it is (and its a gaming model) the tourney was ok with it (so no cola can dreadnaughts <_<)

[Cpt. Blood Donator]

I was thinking from the Swedish perspective, but then again, our tournaments are... special. Special bad.

[Brother Chris]

I'd imagine Dante's death mask and iron halo would be the Wysiwyg problem. The captain in the Codex has red painted muscled 'artificer' armour, even though he can't wear actual artificer armour.

[Cpt. Blood Donator]

I'd imagine Dante's death mask and iron halo would be the Wysiwyg problem. The captain in the Codex has red painted muscled 'artificer' armour, even though he can't wear actual artificer armour.

 

Dante doesn't really have an iron halo, does he now? The iron halo has always been fun, as there hasn't even been a picture of it until 4th.

[Demoulius]

tbh an iron halo is stock gear for a captain just as his grenades are. i find it hard to inmagine that people would want to see it on any actuall model (dante has an iron halo and its nowhere on his person as well....do people question that? ;) )

 

if a piece of armour looks more ornate then another it doesent make it artificer armour. heck a codex captain with normal PA could be wearing AA and you wouldnt even know if your opponent told you. there is no bit or piece of armour thats classified as artificer armour, thus people cant demand you got it on your model.

 

same goes for the mask to be fair. a chaplain's deathmask doesent give rules either and chaplains excist without the skull helmet, doesent mean that one without isent automaticly NOT a chaplain....

 

i find it very hard to believe that people under any circumstance would have an argument over this. at a tourney or not....

[shatter]

*snip*

 

i find it very hard to believe that people under any circumstance would have an argument over this. at a tourney or not....

 

You'll be surprised eventually, bud. For some there's too much at stake for them not to moan about anything and everything.

Not sure if you know this, but some people are into war-gaming because they're socially retarded and are incapable of such things as honour and self control.