librarian powers

[henrywalker]

can a librarian use the same psychic non shooting power more than once in the same turn. i think that there is an argument that it is only psychic shooting attacks that cannot be repeated

 

any thoughts?

[iamnothere]

That's right, although it's debateable so we're hoping it's cleared up in the faq.

 

I believe the stronger argument if for using the same non shooting power twice is stronger. I tend to use it to get the shrouding off.

[Cmdr Shepard]

That's right, although it's debateable so we're hoping it's cleared up in the faq.

 

I believe the stronger argument if for using the same non shooting power twice is stronger. I tend to use it to get the shrouding off.

 

I'm inclined to agree with this interpretation. A Librarian can use a number of powers equal to his matery level. Of course he can use only a shooting power since any infantry model can use a single weapon per turn.

[Noirceuil]

That's right, although it's debateable so we're hoping it's cleared up in the faq.

 

I believe the stronger argument if for using the same non shooting power twice is stronger. I tend to use it to get the shrouding off.

 

What *is* the argument against being able to use the same non-shooting psychic power twice in the same (game)turn? For instance, on page 50 of the rulebook, it states that psykers can use one psychic power per player turn. However, in the preceding paragraph, it states exceptions to the rules are covered in the codices (i.e. C:GK). In a later paragraph on the same page, it states only 1 psychic shooting attack can be used per game turn, because a model typically is restricted to one ranged weapon. If a special rule allows shooting more than one ranged weapon, then two psychic shooting powers can be used during that turn, but not the same one twice.

 

I didn't find any specific reference to non-shooting psychic powers being restricted in the same way.

 

Psychic powers can be utilized in any of the 3 phases during the turn. Some can be used in either the player or opponent's turn, so there's the potential to utilize psychic powers 6 times during any given game turn.

 

Since exceptions to the rule of 1 psychic power being used per turn, can be called out in the relevant codex, this would not apply to the GKs, due to the usage of Mastery levels.

 

If a player expends points on additional mastery levels, and elects to utilize the same non-shooting psychic power more than once during that turn - I don't see how anyone can argue it's not allowed.

 

The only possibility I can conjure is that someone found something written somewhere (other than page 50 of the rulebook) else in the rulebook, where it specifically states that the same psychic non-shooting power cannot be utilized more than once in the turn. I couldn't find it.

 

If anyone knows where to find this, let me know. ;-)

 

[Cmdr Shepard]

What *is* the argument against being able to use the same non-shooting psychic power twice in the same (game)turn?

 

There is no rule argument. There are only several players who claim you have to use "different" powers. There is no logic in that theory but in few circles it became quite popular, especially- guess what- players fighting against a GK army when they notice the Librarian is hindering their plans. Just my personal, direct experience.

[Chengar Qordath]

What *is* the argument against being able to use the same non-shooting psychic power twice in the same (game)turn?

 

There is no rule argument. There are only several players who claim you have to use "different" powers. There is no logic in that theory but in few circles it became quite popular, especially- guess what- players fighting against a GK army when they notice the Librarian is hindering their plans. Just my personal, direct experience.

I'm not sure, but I think it might be a case of people applying rules from older editions to 5th edition; I seem to remember hearing something about psychic powers working that way in a previous edition.

[Cmdr Shepard]

What *is* the argument against being able to use the same non-shooting psychic power twice in the same (game)turn?

 

There is no rule argument. There are only several players who claim you have to use "different" powers. There is no logic in that theory but in few circles it became quite popular, especially- guess what- players fighting against a GK army when they notice the Librarian is hindering their plans. Just my personal, direct experience.

I'm not sure, but I think it might be a case of people applying rules from older editions to 5th edition; I seem to remember hearing something about psychic powers working that way in a previous edition.

I have no experience with the previous editions...

By the way I believe there is currently no limitation about the use of a non shooting power twice, if the mastery level allows it.

[CheezeFezt]

The BRB psychic power section only restrict shooting psychic power. Ahriman Chaos Marine FAQ states he can cast non-shooting power more than once, though warp time multiple time is rather useless. Gifting 3 times, though, ouch.

 

The argument against is splitting hair.

 

First argument is the ability to use 3 psychic powers means 3 "different" psychic power because the rule didn't explicitly states one can the same non-shooting more than once. The rules are by "persmission" only; eg unless it explicitly say you can, you can't. Though there are no such rule by permission. The closest rule is the golden rule, paraphrased: be a sport with your opponent. How one read 3 = 3 "different", my English eluded me.

 

Regardless, the Ahriman FAQ answered this question. One can use the same non-shooting power more than once.

 

Then the argument is Ahriman is different than Psyker Mastery level because Ahriman say he may "make 3 psychic tests" vs PML "use 3 psychic powers". Thus Ahriman FAQ isn't applicable.

 

This is splitting the splitted hair. Going by RAW, Ahriman then can't use 3 psychic powers because the ability to make 3 psychic tests doesn't mean he can use 3 psychic powers. The BRB is to use a psychic power one must pass a psychic test. Also unspoken rule is any psychic test count as using a psychic power (used to be FAQ, but don't see them anymore). But there are no rule saying being able to take a psychic test mean being able to use a psychic power. Thus, he can "take" 3 psychic tests all he want, but RAW didn't say he can "use" 3 psychic powers.

 

But everybody play Ahriman as using 3 psychic powers and FAQ state he may use the same non-shooting power more than once.

 

It's logical and reasonable to conclude from the Ahriman FAQ that PML allows one to use the same non-shooting power more than once. The reason why you don't see other army use the same power more than once is every other codices that allows more than one power per turn also explicitly state one can't use the same power more than once.

 

You will never be able to satisfy the hair splitter. Warhammer rules are prose. Very imprecise. Also, being literature, GW will try to not be boring and write the same rule in different way. The only way to satisfy the hair splitter is to write tome of laws; getting lawyers to write a 3 sentences prose into 30 pages of law papers. Even then, it's not enough because they didn't think of every conceivable wording/interaction to grant permission, so need a judge to rule.

[Adir]

So if I understand correctly, I can take a basic GK librarian and roll for shrouding a second time if the first one gets blocked by a psychic hood? That is very cool.

[Something Wycked]

So if I understand correctly, I can take a basic GK librarian and roll for shrouding a second time if the first one gets blocked by a psychic hood? That is very cool.

Thats exactly right. Any power (shooting powers are the exception) can be used more than once for any reason unless stated otherwise. So you could use Shrouding twice, even if the first casting succeeded, but it won't do you any good because Stealth doesn't stack.

 

But you still could use it twice, if you really wanted to :(

[Adir]

So if I understand correctly, I can take a basic GK librarian and roll for shrouding a second time if the first one gets blocked by a psychic hood? That is very cool.

Thats exactly right. Any power (shooting powers are the exception) can be used more than once for any reason unless stated otherwise. So you could use Shrouding twice, even if the first casting succeeded, but it won't do you any good because Stealth doesn't stack.

 

But you still could use it twice, if you really wanted to :D

I have had Shrouding hood-blocked on more than one occasion. The chance to cast it a second time makes the libbie even more of a must have!

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Multiple 'Warp Rifts'? Why yes thank you :(

[Something Wycked]

Sorry, that's a psychic shooting attack, can't cast more than one of those :(

 

Any power (shooting powers are the exception)...

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Dammit, knew it was too good to be true....of course, that means I can still multi-cast 'Might' instead....hehehe, S6+3D6

[Thaelion Hexis]

Dammit, knew it was too good to be true....of course, that means I can still multi-cast 'Might' instead....hehehe, S6+3D6

 

I wouldn't be sold on powers stacking with themselves.

[Something Wycked]

Yep, just because you can cast it more than once doesn't mean it'll stack :) Might of Titan specifies that it stacks with Hammerhand but does not specify that it'll stack with itself. So, sure, you can cast it 3 times, but you only get the benefit once!

[Chengar Qordath]

Yep, just because you can cast it more than once doesn't mean it'll stack ;) Might of Titan specifies that it stacks with Hammerhand but does not specify that it'll stack with itself. So, sure, you can cast it 3 times, but you only get the benefit once!

Unless you cast it on three different units...

[Chairman_woo]

Unless you cast it on three different units...

 

 

That almost made me want to do a little evil laugh to myself ;)

[Something Wycked]

How does one cast it on three different units? IIRC, it applies to the Librarian and the squad he is attached to, not a targeted unit.

[Gentlemanloser]

Might can be used on any unit within 6".

[Something Wycked]

Does it? That's what I get for not reading it that closely and assuming it works like every other Librarian unit-buff power XD Glad I added in that "iirc"!